Is there evidence that Jesus Christ existed? Yes, there is.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: NYCUltra

Millions of kids raised as Christians are not as damaged as you perceive.

Yes, they are.
I made a career out of studying Child development, parenting, and family/social influence.
You are mistaken.

Interesting. So the fact that you study child development and have an opinion on something invalidates all of the research that suggests otherwise? Or maybe you have evidence to support your claim; if so please bring it forward.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Once again you are making false claims. You have been claiming that Jesus did not exist. In fact, you, and one other member in another thread claimed there was no evidence whatsoever outside of the Christian bible that talked about Jesus. It is the reason why I posted this thread. Now, you are changing goal posts, posting from websites of a few people who "BELIEVE" the stories were fabricated and all these people have as evidence is "their own beliefs"?

In case you didn't know for a long time scholars thought that Pontius Pilate was a myth until the Pilate Stone was discovered in 1961 at the Roman theatre at Caesarea Maritima. Other than that, and other than biblical accounts, some of the Roman authors who wrote about him included Tacitus, and Josephus. Some other authors made mention of him from earlier accounts like Eusebius, and Agapius of Hierapolis. But these accounts were seen as "myths" until the "Pilate Stone" was found.

What this thread proves, is that despite some people claiming "there is no evidence for Jesus Christ existence, in fact there is evidence.

None of the other "Jesus" did what Tacitus mentions Jesus Christ did. Other Roman non-christian authors called him the Christ, or Christus because that's what the people called him.

Your claim that Christianity "damages children" is in fact a childish thing to say. Most Christians are good people, and as I have already mentioned there have been quite a few "atheists" who have caused suffering and death just in the 20th century.

Just being "an atheist" is not going to make you, or children better people. I am not saying atheists are bad people, but simply being an atheist doesn't make your "belief" the right one, and it certainly doesn't make you a better person.

But i digress, because as we can see you have changed yet again the goal posts... From first claiming "there is no evidence outside of the bible for Jesus Christ existence", to then claiming" that proof from non-Christian Romans and others are hoaxes", and now your argument is that "Christianity damages the children"...

a reply to: Aedaeum

Well if he were true, i would hope he was better than the hell damning god of the bible. Sometimes i think religious beliefs, whatever their belief is, just love damnation power and inclusiveness. Personally, I believe he'd be the opposite to that.

The first shall be last, and the last shall be first.

a reply to: awareness10

Couldn't agree more

a reply to: Aedaeum

btw, love your avatar. I used to love creating artistic pieces with my magical artwork programs but haven't these past couple of years. Maybe i'll try and get back to that.

a reply to: awareness10

Is the thread about what people believe, or is it whether or not there is evidence that Jesus Christ did exist?

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

In case you didn't know for a long time scholars thought that Pontius Pilate was a myth until the Pilate Stone was discovered in 1961 at the Roman theatre at Caesarea Maritima.

Wait.....What????

Biblical scholars thought that Pontius Pilate was a myth!!?? Why would anyone ever think that? I thought you said that NO ONE...EVER....until just recently, when militant atheists popped up, NO ONE EVER questioned the existence of Jesus Christ and the biblical narrative in the past??!!!

a reply to: Dfairlite

Hogwash. First, if evidence exists, it can point to more than one truth. There's no "negative evidence."

Second, you're not even sticking with the topic. Are you considering evidence for Jesus/Yeshua or Christ or some combination of the two. Clarify your terms.

Third, you can't answer the question so you make an infantile appeal to authority. Nice.

Fourth, my "performance" and your opinion of same are not on-topic. That was my comment.

Fifth, how does "what you don't like to see" relate to the topic of evidence for Jesus? It doesn't.

You do know the word forensic, right, coming from your "debate background"? Surely you have heard of "dirty pool" that is, pretending to play by the rules of a game but really cheating at every opportunity?

Use the adjective "forensic" to modify the well-known phrase "dirty pool" and you have your answer. I know that's an advanced concept, but, work with it.

Now ... review this EVIDENCE and tell us where it leads you.

One reference in Tacitus
(Not to Jesus/Yeshua but to Christ(us), who had been crucified, and to followers of same who were reviled)

Two references in Josephus (one virtually universally considered altered or forged)

The existence of "Christians" keeping in mind that Christ was a Greek term meaning "enlightened one."

Here's where it leads me:

Many messianic cults exited in 1st century Judea and in the wider Roman Empire.

Many of these referred to their leader(s) as "christos" or promised/blessed/honored one.

Many leaders of groups recognized as presenting possible challenges to Roman authority were crucified.

That's what the EVIDENCE says. It does not point to "Jesus Christ" except in the mind of a believer.

a reply to: windword

What in the world are you talking about?... You are taking random events that cannot be attributed AT ALL to Christ but you claim they are...

Obviously you have no real counter argument, hence you have to make up stories... None of those events you excerpted mention Christ/Christus.

Edit: Poignant, but rather off topic.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Oh! I've already made my argument and presented my evidence for the mythical Jesus Christ. who is a composite character, composed of some real people and some tried and true myths. You really haven't proven your case at all in this thread. As a matter of fact, your thread has opened a lot of eyes, for people who may have been on the fence before, who can now say that they really don't believe that Jesus Christ ever existed!

originally posted by: DeadSeraph

originally posted by: c0gN1t1v3D1ss0nanC3
a reply to: DeadSeraph

Comparing Christ to Plato is amazing! Truly a comparison from a sick mind.

Please seek help.

Wow. I'm not even sure how to respond to this.

Do you mind explaining to me why you feel I have a "sick mind" and should seek help?

ETA: Furthermore, I didn't compare the two individuals insofar as their ideologies or philosophies. I compared them as far as the argument of "contemporaneous documentation" is concerned. Please do try to follow along and not take my words completely out of context (not that your misperception gives you adequate grounds to insult me in the first place).

I wanted to respond to all of your posts Seraph because you have shown a patience and decorum & are on top form...


I decided this was the one to respond to because whenever someone has to offend your mental capabilities and fortitude, it is actually what psychologists would refer to as "projection".

This poster, with such an ironic choice of name considering the post, is projecting...


& I may be late to the party, but it's worthwhile to say don't ever respond to those who use such vapid rhetoric on the off chance you will lose your patience.


However, the decorum remained. Thanks for the interesting take and history too...
I've enjoyed your input.

Stay chill!

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Oh! I've already made my argument and presented my evidence for the mythical Jesus Christ. who is a composite character, composed of some real people and some tried and true myths. You really haven't proven your case at all in this thread. As a matter of fact, your thread has opened a lot of eyes, for people who may have been on the fence before, who can now say that they really don't believe that Jesus Christ ever existed!

I think your right.... I've been skulking here (ATS) for years and it seems as if the number of creationists is definatly in decline.

originally posted by: c0gN1t1v3D1ss0nanC3
a reply to: DeadSeraph

I was making fun of religion when I referred to him as Jesus, Christ, God, and the son of God. You seriously couldn't see that?

My point was that Jesus has had a much bigger influence on human history than Plato has. I don't recall followers of Plato going around and killing in his name.

I may be incorrect here, but I am pretty sure followers of Plato don't go around blowing up abortion clinics or making gay people's lives a living hell.

Maybe I am off base here, but I don't believe Plato has manipulated billions of people throughout history to live their lives a certain way.

If you can't understand what I am alluding to at this point, there is no sense in us continuing any type of conversation.

What you have adduced in no way answers whether Jesus existed or not.

So, I deduce, your confrontational insinuation is a vastly vacuous asseveration!

a reply to: Dfairlite

Or maybe you have evidence to support your claim; if so please bring it forward.

I do have evidence - 10 years of case studies to begin with.
But since I'm not at liberty to discuss the personal lives of former clients, I can't 'bring it forward' to you, and don't want to.
If you want to learn more, enroll in graduate school and become a counselor.
There are hundreds - thousands - of books out there that discuss religion and its effect on people.
However, here's a prerelease document for the book The God Virus: How Religion Infects our Lives and Society

Here's a thread from a few years ago:
The Varieties of ATS Religious Experience (where members have written their stories)

Here's another random site from page 1 of search for results:

Religion is supposed to be good for you. Yet people get hurt in religious systems, sometimes seriously. I used to think that although damage was done by so-called cults, most religion is essentially benign. It could give you some comfort as a child and teach you some values, but then you grew up and away from it. It wasn’t until I looked back on my struggle to grow free of my own indoctrination, and heard the stories of others, that I realized that this kind of emotional and mental damage can be profound.

debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com...

and another: How Christian fundamentalist homeschooling damages children

Those will give you a start.

a reply to: jwlaffer

There is evidence/proof of Jesus, just as there is evidence/proof of His divinity. The very existence of a modern church is evidence/proof of that, and would certainly be relevant in a court of law.

No.
Argumentum ad populum:

In argumentation theory, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes that a proposition is true because many or most people believe it: "If many believe so, it is so."

This type of argument is known by several names,[1] including appeal to the masses, appeal to belief, appeal to the majority, appeal to democracy, appeal to popularity, argument by consensus, consensus fallacy, authority of the many, and bandwagon fallacy, and in Latin as argumentum ad numerum ("appeal to the number"), and consensus gentium ("agreement of the clans").

en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Once again you are making false claims. You have been claiming that Jesus did not exist. In fact, you, and one other member in another thread claimed there was no evidence whatsoever outside of the Christian bible that talked about Jesus. It is the reason why I posted this thread. Now, you are changing goal posts, posting from websites of a few people who "BELIEVE" the stories were fabricated and all these people have as evidence is "their own beliefs"?

I assume that I'm the "other member in anther thread" that you are referring to. So after reading your evidence in the OP, I see the same evidence presented in every thread of this nature about Jesus existing. Yet all of it requires logical leaps to connect gaps in the evidence. For instance, you need to infer why Tacticus is a valid source when he wasn't even born before Jesus was crucified and therefore could NEVER have witnessed even the political climate surrounding the areas Jesus affected. Because of this, we now have to logically infer that he questioned valid sources to get this information.

All of your evidence still requires the "wishful thinking" part that makes the Jesus story dubious. To be honest, I could care less if he existed or not. I just call a spade a spade and the evidence is lacking for his existence. Though even if these sources ARE valid and he did exist, he certainly wasn't the Jesus as described in the Bible. You need to make further logical leaps to make that claim.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

To be honest, I could care less if he existed or not. I just call a spade a spade and the evidence is lacking for his existence. Though even if these sources ARE valid and he did exist, he certainly wasn't the Jesus as described in the Bible. You need to make further logical leaps to make that claim.

Thanks, Krazy. That's exactly what I was going to point out.

originally posted by: c0gN1t1v3D1ss0nanC3
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Oh forgive me. I didn't realize that atheist's were a group.

Allahu Atheism!

No but anti-theistic communists are.

And to them Mao is revered for his butchering and starvation of believers...



Stalin also...

You may have seen their idolatrous statues & shrines.




You see I notice above you said the Plato-Jesus comprison is the work of someone with a "sick mind"...


But when you use logic, you'd understand the reason behind the comparison...
That of writings about both men leading to the conclusion both existed.


What people have done in eithers name doesn't argue if either existed or not.



Carry on!

originally posted by: LittleByLittle
Again Christos and Messiah is a term of what a person is not a name (Anointed one). Similar to the term el as in part of Elohim as in Adri-el, Ambri-el, Ari-el, Azaz-el, Dani-el, Gabri-el, Micha-el and all the others.

Nice.

That never would have occured to me.
Thanks.