New Concept... ATS Clans, page 4
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reply posted on 7-6-2003 @ 08:08 AM by levitationjunkie
I might have gone along with the idea of such restructuring if you, william, were honest about the reason for its introduction. I know you asked me for my silence on the matter but i now sense that was just another attempt at censorship. As concern is growing(no longer just mine) over the reasons for all the changes here i think it's only right, if you have any respect for your fellow posters, that you reveal the reason. I understand if you have to ask your boss before dignifying my post with a proper response. Your years in advertising have made you an excellent mind control operative even if you don't know it, you were an excellent choice.

Well, clans compete for points.

Your clan's total "karma" is calculated by the total posts of clan members. Also, forum staff can remove karma points (just like warning or applauding) if we see posts that are just karma spams.


Post count does not equate status.
Relating points to post count is once again a ridiculous notion and relating post count to 'karma' is even more so. Surely i need not spell out the reasons? Clan's will only divide, if only in a light-hearted fashion. Talk about and references to clanage will take up many posts and will become a focus instead the quality posting content that you say you seek.

Your clan's prestige would also be also based on members receive applause from staff. And how many of your members have been voted for the Way Above award.

As ATS evolves, we'll have ways for senior members to contribute to site content (not just forums).


Staff acknowledgement does not equate status.
So let me get this straight, if staff agree with a certain individuals posts or point of view they will be rewarded and may eventually achieve more privileges at ATS. Or will these sheep simply be rewarded for fact finding and information gathering? In which case, you're encouraging members to be devoid of emotion and soul. You are the queens seeking site content from your little worker ant's. ATS is becoming a machine.

It will also serve to make those who choose not to participate in clans, feel like outsiders and it seems as if they will be treated as such, by staff and fellow members if they will recieve less recognition and if past experiences are anything to go by.

The changes do not serve to better the site or the community. It is all about growth(for what purpose should be obvious) in exchange for

-Strict staff control
-Censorship
-An uncomfortable and unwelcome atmosphere for anyone in possesion of opposing viewpoints.

But what the hell, you get to play chess right?!?

I consider myself a teacher and a student of all topics here at ATS. I do not require nor desire a 'clan'. Nor do i wish to limit my focus, research and learning to one particular subject. I do not require staff admiration or some little bars to continue making useful, informative, quality content posts and neither should any other member. Members shouldn't need to be arranged into groups and labelled just to participate and work together with other members.

What i have admired about ATS is the broad range of opinions, expressions, perspectives and i'd like to see it continue. This being the only reason for such a post.


reply posted on 7-6-2003 @ 10:23 PM by William
Well... levitation has stirred the pot by brining up a topic he and I discussed in a few private exchanges. A topic I had assumed had been explained, and he was fine. I suppose not.

Yup, I'm an "evil advertiser." Two of my larger clients are a branch of the armed services and a major cancer hospital/research center. Evil stuff.

But before that, I've been online "forever". If anyone knows the name Mark Andreessen and where he took "Mosaic" you'll know that my help on that project had some success. And before that, a lot with CompuServe. But that's not the point, and this isn't the introductions forum. The point is, I've stopped making websites, and now only manage those that do. No hands-on, no code slinging, no Photoshop, no design. Instead, I run meetings, pitch clients, and write strategy (a book too, coming soon). It pays the bills nicely, but one needs a hobby... I suppose poking around in the ATS code is mine.

Ever since my start, I've been keenly interested in only communities. Here, some 10 solid years after the spark of the online revolution, digital communities are becoming important.

For a long time, it's been assumed that digital communities such as ATS will eventually reach a critical mass of diminishing returns. Too many members/posts will eventually lead to a fall-off in quality, forcing founding members to move on, content quality further diminishes, and the community dies. Well... this has happened, and will certainly continue to happen. But, what if it doesn't need to?

Consider when you go visiting at a friends house. If their house is nicer than yours is, you'll tend to turn your behavior up a notch and not mess up their seat cushions. Well the idea can apply to communities.

When a discussion forum is just a discussion forum, increased popularity can mean death, since it attracts a wide spectrum of riffraff. I think we can all say, that these past four months have seen the most amazing growth ATS has ever seen. We're averaging about 20 new members every day (some days a lot more), and many of them end up posting. And if anything, the overall quality of messages (minus the few interruptions by the inevitable trolls) seems to be improving. Is the reason because there is more that just a discussion forum here? And if so, how much bigger and how much better can it get?

The clans/groups/house concept is a way to encourage groups of members to collaborate in a structured way that they normally wouldn't have. Friendly competition is inevitable, but if done right (like our debates) it can add to the learning process. If the result is more new content for the main site, written by members of the forum, everyone wins.


Levitationjunkie eluded to ulterior motives. Perhaps if things continue as planned, there may be tasteful paid advertising integrated into the site. Perhaps even real prizes for certain site activities/events. These efforts cost money, and for a long time, Simon has had little compensation from the growth of ATS.


Sorry for the long post... now... the clans... how else could this concept evolve to help become a part of ATS getting better and better.
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