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What's wrong with Conservatives?

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posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 05:32 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko



But explain to me why someone who pays taxes and them supports themselves should live worse than someone who lives exclusively off the government?


Where did I express my desire for those who "worked for it" to live less well than those who didn't?

Frankly, I think that would be a wonderful way to express gratitude for existence and love for the world... live less lavishly so others can have more.. .but I'm not so idealistic that I'd expect others to do that.

I was talking about subsistence level living... food and a roof... and as much education as you care for.




posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 05:38 PM
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a reply to: Baddogma

I would prefer to determine my own quality of living as I suspect most would as well.

I don't see anyone else allowing some one or some entity determining how they should live.



posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 05:51 PM
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a reply to: beezzer

How does having an option for desperate people to have a roof and food (and education) effect your standard of living?

I guess if you were used to a private island and eating Rhino balls off virgin's tummies, then the taxes might make you switch to Panda eyes eaten off a skank's buttocks... buuut, that's pretty petty if you scrap the whole idea based on some level of selfishness.

I get selfishness... I am selfish (though I try hard not to be)... but it's the degree.

The socialistic baseline's vision really won't effect many already comfy folk's standard of living... but if the truly wealthy have to sell a jet so that all can have a shot... oh well.

edit on 4/9/2015 by Baddogma because: f

edit on 4/9/2015 by Baddogma because: caveat to head off nit picking

edit on 4/9/2015 by Baddogma because: another error correction... caused by bursting carotid artery



posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 05:51 PM
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originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: Baddogma

I would prefer to determine my own quality of living as I suspect most would as well.

I don't see anyone else allowing some one or some entity determining how they should live.


What the state and federal government have always determined how we live??


In countless ways it's made the world a far better place. But next time you decide this is a free country, be sure to show the nearest cop a bag of pot and ask if it's an exceptable amount considering you paid 50$ for it. You'll get a crash course in freedom.



posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 06:05 PM
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a reply to: Baddogma

These utopian ideals about "only" having the wealthiest people pay just a tiny bit more are full of poop.

So you are saying that my paycheck, life style, quality of living will be in no way affected by what you would propose?



posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 06:06 PM
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a reply to: Entreri06

I'll determine how I want to live.

No-one else.



posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 06:08 PM
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a reply to: Baddogma

Someday when space travel becomes more common we may see a universe similar to that in Orson Scott Card's "Ender" series books. Like-minded people colonize and inhabit entire worlds. Entire ethnic groups have their own worlds, tied together in a confederation of planets.



posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 06:12 PM
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originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: Entreri06

I'll determine how I want to live.

No-one else.



But you don't. You could end up in jail for countless reasons. You could be murdered by a stranger. You can't decide your not paying taxes or decide where you are allowed to go and not go. You can't decide what medications you need. Nor that your child isn't gonna be educated. You can't decide you want 2 wives or to keep a tiger in your apartment.


In a truely free country (assuming your not hurting anyone) you should be allowed to do what you want. But that's not at all what we have and living life as an outlaw isn't really choosing your fate either.



posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 06:16 PM
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a reply to: Entreri06

I'll make this simple.

Within the structure of society (I do live in a society) I will work and make money.

With that money I will determine what I eat,drink, smoke and where and how I will live.

Do you understand? Because, honestly, any more conversations like this and I'll be bleeding out of an ear or eye.



posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 06:18 PM
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a reply to: beezzer

Unless you are one fortunate bunny, doubtful.

That's another thing... this socialistic idea is, at it's base, selfish as heck.

Anyone at all can get into a tough spot and need society's help... in fact, if you're mortal, you definitely will ...unless you are good with curling up and dying when an ankle breaks.

For the few hearty souls who can have a meaningful life devoid of human help... if i were master of time and space I'd say, "Go for it" ...just please don't use the roads or showers without leaving a donation... roadkill will be fine... thanks.



posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 06:20 PM
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a reply to: Baddogma

Right now we have the option for education, and there are many who spit on it. And there are those who try to take advantage of it who are provided with a substandard product.

And no, it is NOT the money. The US used to spend much less per pupil and achieve much better results, even adjusting for inflation.



posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 06:25 PM
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a reply to: Baddogma

Here's the thing - Why do we need some all-powerful, over-arching entity to mandate this?

Once upon a time, people had family, community and faith groups to see them through those tough times you speak of. But basically, the over-arcing culture has worked very hard to wean us away from close-knit extended families, neighborhoods of people who support one another and close connection to our faith families. That more or less leaves the state to pick us all up. They love it because it gives them all the power.

What the state provides; it can also take away or with hold. I've seen the terms under which Section 8 is provided. People live under constant inspection with government busy-bodies constantly in their business. Look at Obamacare regs which provide provisions for inspectors to come into your home to teach you how to parent and inspect. They are using the public school system in order to dictate how you should feed your children.

Where government offers money, it also socially engineers because the money always comes with strings.

This is why so many of us are so opposed to it. Whether we like their intentions or not, we still think they have no business telling us what to do. So we want nothing to do with their money.



posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 06:33 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Uh... that "option" has many acquaintances owing between 20 and 120 grand ...and they're now working at McCrappies because there are no other jobs for them.

The ones who spit on education? Oh well... sit in their one room and eat mush until death.. .fine... but most don't go to higher education because of that cost... and a few of them should.

I think geniuses could be put to better use... but that's me.

Imagine if Einstein didn't have to waste his productive years at the patent office... maybe he could've unified a theory...

but I get it... MINE MINE MINE... all who I don't personally know can go die, now, because they're likely scum and unworthy.

Or is there another summation?



posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 06:39 PM
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a reply to: Baddogma

I'm talking about public education in general, but hey! you get what you pay for. We have crap for K through 12. Let's see if we can make it crap for college too. Pretty soon, the free degree will mean about as much as the high school diploma and only the kids with the private school diplomas will get anywhere, so it will still cost you between $20 and $120 grand.

But honestly, there are people who manage somehow to get their college degrees without being hip deep in debt. There is this thing called work ... and then take a few classes ... but no, no one wants to work anymore for what they get. They want it all NOW NOW NOW. GIMMEE.

See I can do it too.



posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 06:55 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Yes... sorta... I got out of a lower tier Uni with no debt due to a few jobs and a lucky break or two... but that was a while ago and my own current little sampling pool is full of earnest, bright folks who would laugh at that paragraph you wrote if they were looking over my shoulder... I don't see them much as they're busy working two or three jobs while taking a full course load (or working for nothing with a crushing debt looming)... that's not even hyperbole.

My experience has shown me that the "by your own bootstraps" myth is so much magical thinking... unless they use the bootstraps to hang themselves, that is. Every darn bootstrap is knotted to another one.

It is a different world, now, where resources are bottle-necked even more than is historical... what to do when hard work gets one more poverty?

As I said, it's not all unicorn flatulence and happy thoughts... I've heard the arguments against socialistic ideas and remain unimpressed. It's tribalism and mean. I think that form of short sighted selfishness is wrong and we are truly joined by a closed life support system and common cause to continue existing in it.

But it will take a miracle to convince people of their own self interest... and that of their offspring. Minds are not easily realigned.

May your compound interest accrue...



posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 07:02 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

School loans should be for students who want to study the hard sciences only. Art degrees and Community organizer 101 and other crap like that should not be funded by the Federal Government.



posted on Apr, 10 2015 @ 12:13 AM
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There is nothing wrong at all with standing up for individual freedom in the face of an overwhelming majority or collective.

That is actually brave, admirable and does indeed reflect what the American patriots of the Revolutionary era did.

Every individual is, however, a member of a group and a community. Along with our own unalienable rights, each of us also has a responsibility to our community, our city or country, our State AND our nation (even thought that's passing out of fashion for some.) We are not any of us totally self-sufficient pioneers on some frontier, we are intimiately connected to our fellow citizens and, like it or not, interdependent upon them as they are upon us.

The rights and needs of other people are the only logical limit on individual freedom.

That should recognized as true whether one is conservative, liberal, capitalist, communist, butcher, baker or candlestick-maker.



posted on Apr, 10 2015 @ 01:12 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
There is nothing wrong at all with standing up for individual freedom in the face of an overwhelming majority or collective.

That is actually brave, admirable and does indeed reflect what the American patriots of the Revolutionary era did.

Every individual is, however, a member of a group and a community. Along with our own unalienable rights, each of us also has a responsibility to our community, our city or country, our State AND our nation (even thought that's passing out of fashion for some.) We are not any of us totally self-sufficient pioneers on some frontier, we are intimiately connected to our fellow citizens and, like it or not, interdependent upon them as they are upon us.

The rights and needs of other people are the only logical limit on individual freedom.

That should recognized as true whether one is conservative, liberal, capitalist, communist, butcher, baker or candlestick-maker.



The most important issue we are faced with today isn't climate change, decreasing crime and poverty or education reform. It's paying for stuff I shouldn't have too!

I know we could feed every American and swap to solar....but that would require me to pay (no matter how small of a portion of my tax dollars) for people who can't or won't be successful at a 9 to 5. So screw it! Let the world burn and I'll sit back and count my (now usless) money!


PS: please don't touch this post as the sarcasm oozing off of it might soil your clothes!!



posted on Apr, 10 2015 @ 01:15 AM
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originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: Entreri06

I'll make this simple.

Within the structure of society (I do live in a society) I will work and make money.

With that money I will determine what I eat,drink, smoke and where and how I will live.

Do you understand? Because, honestly, any more conversations like this and I'll be bleeding out of an ear or eye.


Yea except you risk being imprisoned thru all of those actions.

Your taxes not paying for abortions isn't freedom. Not being imprisoned is freedom.



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