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Kansas governor signs abortion law

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posted on Apr, 8 2015 @ 04:45 PM
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In fact I personally think that someone who has a history of abortions should have some kind of intervention. Mandatory sterilization or birth control....


I agree, abortion even done "safely" can be very harmful to the women involved. My aunt had ONE abortion done "safely" and now can no longer have children. She wasn't pressured into it and it was her choice but put into the same situation again she would do it differently.


a reply to: mOjOm




posted on Apr, 8 2015 @ 05:17 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
Can someone explain the legal basis for the fetus being a "human life" if and only if it is not a medical threat to the mother?

I mean, either the fetus is a human and aborting is murder ... or it's not.

Right?

How can something be murder and not murder at the same time? Legally that is.


For the pro-life crowd, that is exactly the argument. It comes down to "when is it a life?". That can range from the moment of conception until it is partly or fully passed through the birth canal.

Some of the pro-choice crowd make the argument that if you don't think that abortion should be legal, that you're suppressing the rights of women. That derails the "is it a life" argument, making it a human rights issue. Some do make the argument that they simply don't think it's a life.

The names of each group says it all. If they were debating the same issue it would be anti-choice and pro-choice or pro-life and anti-life.



posted on Apr, 8 2015 @ 05:28 PM
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a reply to: Sremmos80




I am pro choice, just seems like 13 weeks is a little long to make that choice.


There are a lot of reasons why women may need an abortion between 13 and 24 weeks. For one thing, lawmakers have put so many obstacles in the way of women seeking abortions, that navigating the path to abortion could take a lot of time, money and planning. Many women have to travel long distances to meet the doctor, endure counseling and a waiting period, pay for travel, housing, childcare, time off from work and must pay for unnecessary vaginal probes and then of course, the cost of their procedure.

Obviously, these restrictions will not be problems for women of means, who can afford to travel to another state. Personally, I don't see the difference between 12 weeks and 24 weeks. There is no sentience. And, if you're of the persuasion that abortion is murder, it's murder at 8 weeks, it still murder at 24 weeks.

Another reason that women may choose to have a late abortion is because doctors aren't really able to detect birth defect and other problems with the fetus until well into a pregnancy. Many women, and their families, choose to abort "diseased" fetuses.


For us, My angel Cole’s story started when my alpha-fetal protein came back elevated. There are false positives all the time we were told but were still advised to see a specialist. We scheduled our 18-week ultrasound with a specialist in Denver, Dr. Henry. We like surprises so we chose not to find out the sex until he/she was born, no matter what.

It was during our ultrasound that our nightmare began. As the ultrasound technician was “trying to get a good picture of the brain” she said she needed to have Dr. Henry come in to talk to us. The first words out of my husband’s mouth were “holy #, this is bad.” I am a pharmacist and my husband is a physician and has seen his share of ultrasounds. When Dr. Henry and the ultrasound technician returned they explained to us that our baby had a massive inter-hemispheric cyst separating the 2 halves of his brain, encompassing the entire top and back portion of his skull cavity. He had Agenesis of the Corpus Callosum as a result of the cyst. His hands were also in such a position to indicate severe neurological deficit.

.........

After many, many tears shed and what-ifs played out in our head we made the heartbreaking choice to end the pregnancy. We were both raised catholic; this was NEVER a decision we EVER though we would need to make.
www.aheartbreakingchoice.com...



edit on 8-4-2015 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 8 2015 @ 05:30 PM
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The law is the law.

If enough people don't like it, then they are free to vote everyone out.

Government is supposed to represent the people they "govern", perhaps this is an example of the people's representatives doing what the people want.



posted on Apr, 8 2015 @ 06:04 PM
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Fantastic....

Let's bring back the good old days with the clothes hangers, Drano, over doses of cytotec, and the bus rides to Juarez. Of course the wealthier women will probably opt for the Cabo or Cozumil trip with a little cosmetic dentistry thrown in.

This law won't stop one abortion. Any woman that wants to induce premature labor can readily find the information on line. This is just more pandering to the Right Wing Christian political base. How can anyone think this move won't blow up in the conservatives face with this war on the poor and especially poor women. If they find their political voice....watch out.

The naivete of the Right never ceases to astonish me....gee Dorothy, I don't think we're in Kansas anymore!!

Keep up this style of control freakishness and watch the moderates shift to the left.
edit on 8-4-2015 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 8 2015 @ 06:30 PM
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originally posted by: olaru12
Fantastic....

Let's bring back the good old days with the clothes hangers, Drano, over doses of cytotec, and the bus rides to Juarez. Of course the wealthier women will probably opt for the Cabo or Cozumil trip with a little cosmetic dentistry thrown in.

This law won't stop one abortion. Any woman that wants to induce premature labor can readily find the information on line. This is just more pandering to the Right Wing Christian political base. How can anyone think this move won't blow up in the conservatives face with this war on the poor and especially poor women. If they find their political voice....watch out.

The naivete of the Right never ceases to astonish me....gee Dorothy, I don't think we're in Kansas anymore!!



Kinda exaggerating aren't ya? Even though your trying to use emotions to make people think of the Stone Age, I guess your forgetting this one guy that just got caught?

Kermit Gosnell

Paint it as pretty as you want! There are still more monsters out there like this guy! Guess you don't really care about the safety of those women wanting abortions?



posted on Apr, 8 2015 @ 06:36 PM
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a reply to: seeker1963




There are still more monsters out there like this guy! Guess you don't really care about the safety of those women wanting abortions?


Exactly. These anti-abortions laws won't stop abortion. It will just empower more people who will perform unsafe, dirty and illegal abortions in "back allies", putting more women's lives at risk. Kansas law makers don't care about protecting women.






edit on 8-4-2015 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 8 2015 @ 06:37 PM
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Now if this guy has a daughter who became pregnant, and he didn't wan't that to happen..


Wonder how he would feel.

Strangely enough I actually (wrongly) wish that would happen to him just right now.


edit on 8-4-2015 by bullcat because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 8 2015 @ 06:40 PM
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My ideas are like John Waynes...www.youtube.com...
THINGS HAVEN'T CHANGED much...
edit on 8-4-2015 by cavtrooper7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 8 2015 @ 06:45 PM
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An abortion is the deliberate murder of a human being.

In this example, defenseless babies are hacked into pieces.

There is no defense for this, and there will never be a defense for this.

It is murder of innocents, and there is never any justification for that.



From the moment of conception, a new, unique human life exists.

Left to nature, it would emerge entirely on it's own.

Unless the mother, well, murders it.



posted on Apr, 8 2015 @ 06:52 PM
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a reply to: Seamrog




From the moment of conception, a new, unique human life exists.

Left to nature, it would emerge entirely on it's own.

Unless the mother, well, murders it.


Or Mother Nature.

Few conceptions lead to a baby


However, there's some serious problems with the logic of ensoulation at the point of conception. The CDC as well as the March of Dimes and several fertility experts have conducted studies to see exactly how hard it is to carry a pregnancy to term. In general, less than 70% of all fertilized eggs will even implant into the mother's womb causing pregnancy to continue. From there, there is a 25-50% chance of aborting before you even know you are pregnant. If, however, you make it to your first month, your odds go up to 75% chance of carrying to term. So if you look at it from the point of all those little souls being given a home, only to be miscarried before they even know they are alive.
Scientific research has compiled the following information about the rates of naturally aborted pregnancies in human beings.

This chart assumes that 200 eggs are in an environment with sperm nearby.




posted on Apr, 8 2015 @ 06:56 PM
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There are a lot of emotional comments in this thread and not much else. I'll aggregate from here, here, here and here in an attempt to inject something aside from emotion into this discussion.

To begin with, there are less abortions being performed a year now than at any point in the last 40 years since it became legal. That's despite the fact that the population has grown by more than 50% and people aren't having less sex. The number of abortions has been steadily dropping year after year. Out of about 7 million pregnancies in the US per year, less than 1 million (4 out of 10 unplanned) end in abortion. I imagine that contraception is not only the first choice to avoid unwanted pregnancy, it's actually being used.

Moronically blabbering about abstinence is basically the same as burying one's head in the sand. Who are the intended targets of abstinence only programs I wonder? 61% of abortions are obtained by women who already have one or more children. 57% of abortions are obtained by women in their 20's and another 26% are obtained by women 30 and older. That leaves 11% for 18 & 19 year-olds and 6% for girls 15-17. Clearly abstinence only initiatives will have little to no impact.

Trimesters are kind of an arbitrary demarcation when you consider the differences between a fetus at 12 weeks and at 26 weeks. At 12 weeks a fetus is 2-2.5 inches long weighs a less than an ounce and bones haven't been formed from cartilage (that starts about a month later). At 26 weeks, the average fetus is about 14 inches long and weighs about 1.7 lb. Clearly trimesters are not a useful measure for a reasoned discussion.

Dilation and Evacuation (D&E) is basically a D&C with suction. It's typically used at 16 weeks and later. I don't know how many of those require any type of dismemberment but I imagine it goes up with each week of pregnancy.

Almost 9 out of 10 abortions occur in the first 12 weeks (89% in 2010), another few percent at 13 weeks (total of 92%) and only a little over 1% occur after 20 weeks. 20 weeks is also a significant number because this is where Congress typically considers federal bans. This also brings me to an excerpt from this article Who has an abortion after 20 weeks?:


Why do some women wait so long? The answer is that comprehensive fetal testing, such as anatomical sonograms and ultrasounds of the heart, are typically performed just before 20 weeks of gestation. Such scans are critical for uncovering major birth defects, such as anencephaly (severe brain malformations), major heart defects, missing organs and limbs, and other severe birth defects. Fetal development is a complex process that often goes awry. Roughly 2 percent of all pregnancies are complicated by a major birth defect, and of those about 0.5 percent have a chromosomal defect, such as an extra or missing segment of normal DNA. Birth defects are a leading cause of infant mortality, and in many cases of severe birth defects, no medical treatment can salvage a fetus’s life or result in any measure of normal future health.


What's the takeaway?

Only a small percentage of abortions necessitate a D&E. Most of the pregnancies terminated because of horrendous birth defects occur at 20 weeks and later. Women and girls who are the victims of rape and incest are also statistically more likely to have abortions later into pregnancy than those who are not.

Should we have an honest conversation about unintended consequences or blabber on mindlessly about abstinence and gold fish?
edit on 2015-4-8 by theantediluvian because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 8 2015 @ 07:12 PM
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this link is keeping count of abortions.

if supporters are OK with these numbers, then who's to criticize.

58,000,000 in U.S. since 1973



posted on Apr, 8 2015 @ 07:16 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

OMG!

And that number doesn't even include all of the tiny little baby humans killed by birth control pills!



I'm beginning to get some evidence from certain doctors and scientists that have done, uh, research on women's wombs after they've gone through the surgery. And they've compared the wombs of women who were on birth control pill versus those who were not on birth control pill, and they have found that with women who were on the birth control pill there are these little tiny fetuses—these little babies—embedded into the womb. They're just, like, dead babies! On the inside of the womb. And these wombs of women who have been on the birth control pill effectively have become graveyards for lots and lots of little babies.
jezebel.com...



posted on Apr, 8 2015 @ 07:34 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

Thanks. This is the post I was waiting for in the thread. I knew I'd have to wade through a bunch of emotional nonsense.



posted on Apr, 8 2015 @ 07:51 PM
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I wouldn't be alive today if current applications were provided when I was a "fetus", a child un-born.
My mother had cancer in the uterus, but as far as I know, I wasn't a question.
I am here fifty years later, going strong.

Far removed from my Mothers maternal insticts I became pro-choice when I was young, much younger.
Today, the past years I have gained the courage to engage the topic.

I can no longer be pro-choice, the child; as it is, has no choice, so I MUST speak up for those with out a voice.
Not only those silent in the whomb, but our disabled and less so called "furtunate", those who can't pay their bills or....
Please search, second/third term abortions image. It is horrific.
They are OUR children.
WIS



posted on Apr, 8 2015 @ 07:53 PM
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originally posted by: windword

OMG!

And that number doesn't even include all of the tiny little baby humans killed by birth control pills!






You are exactly correct. You left out those lives that are exterminated via 'morning after pills,' those destroyed through IVF, and the countless who are destroyed through 'research.'

The abortion industry has no limits regarding conscious destruction of defenseless, innocent human beings.

It is an intrinsic evil.



posted on Apr, 8 2015 @ 07:56 PM
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originally posted by: Seamrog
An abortion is the deliberate murder of a human being.

In this example, defenseless babies are hacked into pieces.

There is no defense for this, and there will never be a defense for this.

It is murder of innocents, and there is never any justification for that.



From the moment of conception, a new, unique human life exists.

Left to nature, it would emerge entirely on it's own.

Unless the mother, well, murders it.


You have no credibility. You have no knowledge only emotion. Ever heard of a miscarriage.

Read this...

www.healthline.com...

Perhaps they can pass a law against this as well and throw the would be mother in jail for murder of her child.
I'm sure the Kansas uber conservatives have considered this.




edit on 8-4-2015 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 8 2015 @ 08:00 PM
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a reply to: WalkInSilence

So, you laud your mother's choice, (did she even have a choice in 1965?), but want to take away the same choice from another woman who is suffering from uterine cancer and pregnant?



posted on Apr, 8 2015 @ 08:06 PM
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