RAWR! Stop blaming Sunnis & Shiites! It's Wahabis and their backers! (*Calms down) Let me explain

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Badermiehoff,Arafat's guidance.
KLINGHOFFER's death
Beruit 83.
Progressive semantics aren't sufficent to define the problem...UNLESS
US vets can travel willy nilly for Christain beliefs and SLAUGHTER as they please,independent of the state THEN they TOO can claim some BU##S##T excuse to kill
ANYONE they believe are jihadists RIGHT?
OH well as long as we can't tell WHO'S WHO ,more will be offed by remote drones.
More death from a misunderstanding that pervades, attempting to define spacific hostiles from a XENOPHOBIC group of cultures.
It will come to a head soon Italy is apparently taking the lead as a state
news.antiwar.com...
To quote Dr Banner on Avengers "Oh no that's MUCH worse"

a reply to: BlueJacket

Thanks, I will.

i didnt click here for a islam history lesson! clicked to find out why wahabis and their backers are responsible!

a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

You wouldn't really be defined by he Quran to be honest.

It's always about unbelievers who fight against Islam (physically) or persecute Muslims because of what we believe.



Criticism of Islam is not a transgression...
Not in the Quran anyhow.


We would be told to debate with you on the finer points.

If you become judgmental or spread lies then we are told to leave the room, change the subject, or debate properly...



Even apostates...
Praphrasing the Quran says "if someone believes, then disbelieves, then believes again, and goes on in disbelief, Allah will surely not guide them"

But it doesn't say to harm them in any way.

Judgement is for Allah...

Look at my signature...


It's basically telling Muhammad (PBUH) that he is not important enough to force his beliefs on others, because if Allah (SWT) willed for everyone to believe they would, & what is free will without choice?


So it's not hard to interpret when you read the full scripture in context.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs

originally posted by: Kapusta

I would like to Add that I am Salafi and I am on par with most of what OP shared .


But I also wanted to make note that these Khuaraij make claims of being salafi but they are not .


Real quick Bio , Born raised Christian , studied religion , found Islam , studied Islam for years , became salafi , Because its based off of FACT and Evidence of scripture and not bid'ah ( innovation of scripture ) . One can say it's the purest form of Islam .

You see the salafi trace everything back to the Shahaba and Muhammad (pbuh) we follow Islam how they followed . If it's not able to be traced back then it's questionable (in rearguard to hadith etc ) because over the years like many other religions Islam has become Infected with Innovation of scripture and culture tradition . so as a salaf we want to practice the purest form of Islam .

one can compare it to Orthodox Christianity vs west burrow . of course salafi being orthodoxy lol .

So long story short ! True Islam does not have all these extremes you see on MSM and the internet . Much of that comes from Innovation and culture tradition and influence .

anyway hope this helps !

P.S Op I still go fishing , hangout with friends , live life ! do fun things ! you name it i do it ! being salafi means siticking to the Quran and Sunna !

Salam alikume Akhi thanks for the post

Nice post Kapusta, Salam.

& now that this has been stated, there is one more you missed OP...


Myself, I am a Quranist.
& do not follow Hadith...

Quite a minority, but I could back it up with scripture when I have the time to edit this post why I chose to be a Quranist.

Gasp! You mentioned the word that must not be mentioned! Oh you've done it now! Just kidding

I know quite a bit about "Quranists" & there's a group in the US called "the Submitters". They've got a pretty good website if you're interested. I almost mentioned them but didn't see how they fit into the Sunni/Shiite/Wahabi argument. Plus I think many denominations officially reject Quranists, which I think is weird because I refuse to believe that God's words alone can't get us into Heaven. But to each their own.

I'm not exactly a Quranist, but I'm pretty close. I only became a Muslim because of my direct dealings w/both Shaytan & Allah. I submit to God & made a vow to fight Shaytan, his minions, and his techniques. So I half jokingly consider myself "A Muslim like the Prophets" (not that I am a prophet but that I submit because of "supernatural circumstances", not from written words). I don't consider myself bound by anything other than the actual words of God & my personal covenant with Him, so some see me as a heretic. But any believers who actually meet me see that I'm a true believer, just not concerned with man-made divisions. He taught me that all life is precious (even my opponents grrr), and that I need to only worry about improving my standing with Him.

My parents were raised as Christians but converted to Islam in college. My dad's a Sunni Imam who is growing closer & closer to becoming Salafi, while my mom follows the Qur'an and only Hadith that don't contradict the Qur'an. Most Muslims in the African American communities don't care about Wahabi/Salafi/Sunni/Shiite stuff anyway. Islam & Christianity were both strong parts of the US Civil Rights Movement, and we're waaay more focused on if people support equality, are righteous, don't commit crimes, help the poor around them, etc. That's why our families can be a mix of different Christian & Islamic sects. And we don't particularly care, as long people are trying to do good deeds.

originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

So is there a written source, preferably muslim, that defines what consitutes this true Jihad...what you wrote...somehow seems to me like your own understanding of the term...and perhaps some of it is wishful thinking.

Back in school...we were told a simple definition...something like...holy war against the infidels. So...can you please point me to scolarly definition from a valid muslim source....i would appreciate it.

There's no such thing as "holy war". Jihad has 2 steps. 1. Purifying your inner self/purging your vices & negative traits. And 2. Fighting the evils of the world. for example, my jihad is against homelessness, starvation, domestic abuse, racism, slavery, war, and bigoted liars.

Physical fighting is only supposed to be done as self defense. Everyone has the right to defend himself or herself. But we can't go attacking innocent people, starting wars, invading others, etc. Correction: we're not supposed to do that stuff, but some people don't follow the beliefs (or have alternate versions and beliefs).

Like suicide bombings. Suicide is against the Qur'an, as is killing innocent people. And the Qur'an directly states in 4:92 or 4:93 that anyone who intentionally kills a believer is going to Hell. This would make intentional attacks from either side in a "believer" vs "believer" war forbidden. Yet some sects like Wahabis point to obscure traditions & interpretations to justify it. So just think about that when you see "suicide bomber attacks mosque/church/marketplace", etc

originally posted by: JourneymanWelder
i didnt click here for a islam history lesson! clicked to find out why wahabis and their backers are responsible!

It's all related. Read #5, 6 and 7 (especially #7), then #8, 12, 13, and 14.

originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs



going through your link...


in the mean time...

An infidel is someone who persecutes Muslims or fights against Islam (tries to quash it) & tries to stop Muslims believing what we do...
So in that sense it's a Holy War against infidels...

a definition of a word infidel:

noun
1.
Religion.
a person who does not accept a particular faith, especially Christianity.
(in Christian use) an unbeliever, especially a Muslim.
(in Muslim use) a person who does not accept the Islamic faith; kaffir.
2.
a person who has no religious faith; unbeliever.
3.
(loosely) a person who disbelieves or doubts a particular theory, belief, creed, etc.; skeptic.

Your definition of a word infidel is a bit different than what the dictionary says. You assign a much more heavier meaning to it...than the word itself means.

According to the dictionary...it is simply a person that does not believe or accept certain religion. Nowhere does it state:

An infidel is someone who persecutes Muslims

...not believing and persecuting believers is not the same. To me this appears, since it's all about interpretation and context, that you want that word to be more than it is...simply to validate the concept of Jihad as...somewhat benign and defensive....while if we go strictly by the definition of the word infidel...in language we are both using...Jihad would than be... war on non believers in Islam.

I am...by definition...an infidel...a non believer...whether from Christian or from Islamic point of view (I reject both).

Wait a sec, if you're going on about "kaffir" (which means unbeliever), then why not quote the Revelation/Sura "al-Kafirun" ("the Disbelievers)? It's a direct revelation from God Himself, not a prophet, companion, or human.

Kafirun

In it, it literally states (Pickthall translation):

1. Say: O disbelievers!
2. I worship not that which ye worship;
3. Nor worship ye that which I worship.
4. And I shall not worship that which ye worship.
5. Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
6. Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.

That's it. That's the entire revelation/Sura. God Himself made it a point to tell us to say this when dealing with disbelievers. Of course, if we're attacked, we can defend ourselves.

For the record, the Qur'an is not divided into chapters, but into the separate Revelations sent from God, through an Angel, to the Prophet Muhammad. Some are really long, and others like "al-Kafirun" are very short.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs


Hmmm, Interesting...

You say your a Quranist ?

Well then I have some questions for you .

How do you pray Salat ?

Is the whole deen covered in the Quran ?

Here are some other good points .

1. The salaah (prayer) is the well-known way of worship which is undisputedly held as the first pillar of Islâm after having faith. The Holy Qur’ân has ordered more than 73 times to observe it. Despite this large number of verses giving direct command to observe the salaah, there is no verse in the entire Book to explain how to perform and observe it.

Some components of the salaah, like ruku’ (bowing down) or sujud (prostration) or qiyaam (standing) are, no doubt, mentioned in the Holy Qur’ân. But the complete way to perform salaah as a composite whole has never been explained. It is only through the sunnah of the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) that we learn the exact way to perform it. If the sunnah is ignored, all these details about the correct way of observing salaah are totally lost. Not only this, nobody can bring forth an alternate way to perform salaah on the basis of the Holy Qur’ân alone.

It is significant that the Holy Qur’ân has repeated the comand of observing salaah as many as 73 times, yet, it has elected not to describe the way it had to be performed. This is not without some wisdom behind it. The point that seems to have been made deliberately is one of the significance of the sunnah.

By avoiding the details about no less a pillar of Islâm than salaah, it is pointed out that the Holy Qur’ân is meant for giving the fundamental principles only. The details are left to the explanations of the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam).

2. Moreover, it is mentioned in the Holy Qur’ân that the salaah is tied up with some prescribed times. Allâh Almighty says:

Surely, the salaah is a timed obligation for the believers. (4:104)

It is clear from this verse that there are some particular times in which the salaah should be performed. But what are those times is nowhere mentioned in the Holy Qur’ân. Even that the daily obligatory prayers are five in number is never disclosed in the Holy Book. It is only through the sunnah of the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) that we have learnt the exact number and specific times of the obligatory prayers.

3. The same is the position of the number of rak’aat to be performed in each prayer. It is not mentioned anywhere in the Holy Qur’ân that the number of rak’aat is two in Fajr, four in Zuhr, ‘Asr and ‘Isha; it is only in the sunnah that these matters are mentioned.

If the sunnah is not believed, all these necessary details even about the first pillar of Islâm remain totally unknown, so as to render the salaah too vague an obligation to be carried out in practice.

4. The same is the case if zakaah (alms-giving), the second pillar of Islâm, which is in most cases combined with the salaah in the Holy Qur’ân. The order to “pay zakaah” is found in the Holy Book in more than thirty places. But who is liable to pay it? On what rate it should be paid? What assets are liable to the obligation of zakaah? What assets are exempted from it? All these questions remain unanswered if the sunnah of the Holy Qur’ân (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) is ignored. It is the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) who explained all these details about zakaah.

5. Fasts of Ramadan are held to be the third pillar of Islâm. Here again only the fundamental principles are found in the Holy Qur’ân. Most of the necessary details have been left to the explanation of the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) which he disclosed through his sayings and acts. What acts, other than eating, drinking and having sex, are prohibited or permitted during the fast? Under what conditions can one break the fast during the day? What kind of treatment can be undertaken in the state of fasting? All these and similar other details are mentioned by the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam).

6. The Holy Qur’ân has said after mentioning how to perform wudu’, (ablution):

And if you are junub (defiled) well-purify yourself. (5:6)

It is also clarified in the Holy Qur’ân that while being junub (defiled) one should not perform prayers (4:43). But the definition of junub (defiled) is nowhere given in the Holy Qur’ân nor is it mentioned how should a defiled person “well-purify” himself. It is the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) who has explained all these questions and laid down the detailed injunctions on the subject.

7. The command of the Holy Qur’ân concerning Hajj, the fourth pillar of Islâm, is in the following words:

And as a right of Allâh, it is obligatory on people to perform the Hajj of the House- whoever has the ability to manage his way to it. (3:97)

It is just not disclosed here as to how many times the Hajj (pilgrimage to Makkah) is obligatory? The Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) explained that the obligation is discharged by performing Hajj only once in a life-time.

8. The Holy Qur’ân says:

Those who accumulate gold and silver and do not spend them in the way of Allâh, give them the news of a painful punishment. (9:34)

Here, “accumulation” is prohibited and “spending” is enjoined. But the quantum of none of the two is explained. Upto what limit can one save his money, and how much spending is obligatory? Both the questions are left to the explanation of the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) who has laid down the detailed rules in this respect.

9. The Holy Qur’ân, while describing the list of the women of prohibited degree, with whom one cannot marry, has extended the prohibition to marrying two sisters in one time:

And (it is also prohibited) to combine two sisters together. (4:23)

The Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) while explaining this verse, clarified that the prohibition is not restricted to two sisters only. The verse has, instead, laid down a principle which includes the prohibition of combining an aunt and her niece, paternal or maternal, as well.

10. The Holy Qur’ân says:

Today the good things have been permitted to you. (5:5)

Here, the “good things” are not explained. The detailed list of the lawful “good things” has only been given by the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) who has described the different kinds of food being not lawful for the Muslims and not falling in the category of “good things.” Had there been no such explanation given by the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) everybody could interpret the “good things” according to his own personal desires, and the very purpose of the revelation, namely, to draw a clear distinction between good and bad, could have been disturbed. If everybody was free to determine what is good and what is bad, neither any revelation nor a messenger was called for. It was through both the Holy Book and the Messenger (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) that the need was fulfilled.

Numerous other examples of this nature may be cited. But the few examples given above are, perhaps, quite sufficient to show the nature of the explanations given by the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) as well as to establish their necessity in the framework of an Islâmic life ordained by the Holy Qur’ân for its followers.

Essentially by rejecting Hadith you reject the teachings of prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

a reply to: Kapusta

I respect your opinion & your right to your beliefs. But I also must say that I don't think it's ok to question the faith of other Muslims. As long as he or anyone else submits to God & tries to improve their standing with God, then there shouldn't be a problem.

Or another way to put it is, do you think that the Qur'an alone is not enough to get into Heaven? As in, do you think God's direct teachings aren't enough? The Qur'an itself says it is complete. So as long as he's following it, why is there a problem?

I bring this up because I've had this conversation with many different types of believers. Take prayer for instance, like you mentioned. What's the "correct" way to pray? As in, what form of prayer does God accept? Each school of thought has variations on how to pray, so which is correct? And if there are so many variations, how can we be 100% sure if any of the versions taught today is the "correct" one? Either only one version is correct & the rest are wrong; all of them are wrong and the correct version is forgotten; or God accepts all variations as long as we're praying to Him. I don't believe in praying for social acceptance, I only pray for God's acceptance. So as long as He accepts our prayers, why does it matter if other people accept them?

I've literally prayed with Shiites, Sunnis, Salafis, and Christians of different forms. I've prayed in cars, in buildings, on a plane, and on the grass. I even make it a point now to pray at least once outside when I travel to different cities, so the animals, insects, and vegetation can witness my prayers. My prayers are personal, between myself & God, and I know He accepts them. Sometimes He even gives me guidance or inspiration during my prayers, which I hastily write down when I'm finished. So as long as He continues to accept my prayers, what right does a human have to say I'm doing them correct or wrong?

Sometimes I think different denominations focus too much time on worshiping their books or traditions, and not enough time actually building a relationship with God. Isn't that the point of our submission in the first place?

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Well since you would like to answer for him then maybe you can answer my question



Is the whole deen covered in the Quran ?

Prophet Muhammad understood the Quran more then anyone and he prayed five times a day and gave instruction on how to do it ( Hadith) ,

This is prime example of Bid'ah .

You take your personal feeling about Islam (witch at this point I have to assume your knowledge of Islam is weak ) and Add an idea of how it's suppose to be .

This is exactly what extremist do ! they take Ideas ! about Islam and twist them to fit their own belief system, while rejecting 1000's of years of Scholarship and FACT.

Say ! some ayat in the Quran require Hadith to fully understand how do you purpose to understand it when yo reject Hadith ?

sects are formed by doing exactly what your doing . Innovation !

I bring this up because I've had this conversation with many different types of believers. Take prayer for instance, like you mentioned. What's the "correct" way to pray? As in, what form of prayer does God accept? Each school of thought has variations on how to pray, so which is correct? And if there are so many variations, how can we be 100% sure if any of the versions taught today is the "correct" one? Either only one version is correct & the rest are wrong;

Hmmm well ! if you understood Hadith and how it's classed and traced back to prophet Muhammad through chain's of narration then you would know that to witch was correct !

but you choose to reject it .




this was just a quick youtube search ...

maybe his way of explaining it will help you to understand more of why its important to follow the Quran and sunna

One correction about the brother in the video . Hadith was also written down and not just passed down verbally.

originally posted by: Kapusta
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Well since you would like to answer for him then maybe you can answer my question



Is the whole deen covered in the Quran ?

Prophet Muhammad understood the Quran more then anyone and he prayed five times a day and gave instruction on how to do it ( Hadith) ,

This is prime example of Bid'ah .

You take your personal feeling about Islam (witch at this point I have to assume your knowledge of Islam is weak ) and Add an idea of how it's suppose to be .

This is exactly what extremist do ! they take Ideas ! about Islam and twist them to fit their own belief system, while rejecting 1000's of years of Scholarship and FACT.

Say ! some ayat in the Quran require Hadith to fully understand how do you purpose to understand it when yo reject Hadith ?

sects are formed by doing exactly what your doing . Innovation !

I bring this up because I've had this conversation with many different types of believers. Take prayer for instance, like you mentioned. What's the "correct" way to pray? As in, what form of prayer does God accept? Each school of thought has variations on how to pray, so which is correct? And if there are so many variations, how can we be 100% sure if any of the versions taught today is the "correct" one? Either only one version is correct & the rest are wrong;

Hmmm well ! if you understood Hadith and how it's classed and traced back to prophet Muhammad through chain's of narration then you would know that to witch was correct !

but you choose to reject it .

this was just a quick youtube search ...

maybe his way of explaining it will help you to understand more of why its important to follow the Quran and sunna

One correction about the brother in the video . Hadith was also written down and not just passed down verbally.

Why are you being so defensive? And why are you ignoring my questions? I'm seriously curious to know your answers.

Do you think that the Qur'an alone is not enough to get into Heaven? As in, do you think God's direct teachings aren't enough? The Qur'an itself says it is complete. So as long as he's following it, why is there a problem?

I asked you that because many of the "Salafis" I've actually met seem to think that God's words aren't enough to get to Heaven and/or that His Qur'an is incomplete. As if He is incompetent and needs humans to perfect the message He delivered. The God I worship makes no mistakes. So I'm curious to see your take on that.

Also, how can you compare me to an extremist? That's not only wrong, but absolutely ludicrous! I'm like an extremist because I think all life is precious? Or because I think that only God's opinion of us matters? Or because I think that we should strictly focus on improving our standings with God? Or because I don't think God cares about man-made denominational differences? Or because I'm "extreme" enough to think God's words alone are enough to get into Heaven? Or that as long as God accepts our prayers, it doesn't matter what other people think? That's ridiculous.

Then you say my knowledge of Islam is weak? How would you know? That's pretty judgmental, isn't it? I'm not a Salafi, Sunni, Shiite, or Sufi. I'm not bound by any of their dogma, interpretations, or traditions. Just as you're not bound by Alawite dogma, teachings, or traditions. I'm a "Muslim" exactly as the word implies: I submit to God. I didn't submit to any tribe, any hearsay, or any supposed traditions. I submit to God & God alone. He alone I worship & He alone I ask for help. Does that sound familiar to you? Or is the Fatihah not good enough either? Either way, I don't discourage any denominations from following their own beliefs. As long they don't cause harm to others, I don't really care what they believe. That's between them & God.

The only reason I responded in the first place was to highlight to any onlookers the issues I mentioned in the OP. Virtually NONE of the problems going on in the Mideast are actually related to God's teachings. It's always over money, power, and regional influence. And the groups that are actually intolerant of other Muslims aren't the day to day Sunnis or Shiites, who make up nearly all Muslims globally. Not sure if you noticed it, but you actually proved my point on that.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Well thanks for clarifying a few things Charlie...a have a few more questions but we have drifted way off topic in this thread. Apologies to the OP.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Please answer my question first
"Is the whole deen covered in the Quran ?


Listen to what your saying "I think this ,I think that " this is your OPINION But is it in accordance with Islam ?

This is Exactly what Extremist do ! "they think" and they "think they know " This is called Bid'ah ! Innovation ! and Ideas about a certain meaning or aya or Hadith.

by rejecting Hadith your rejecting a direct command of Allah
here is one of many examples

"And what Allah restored to His Messenger from the people of the towns - it is for Allah and for the Messenger and for [his] near relatives and orphans and the [stranded] traveler - so that it will not be a perpetual distribution among the rich from among you. And whatever the Messenger has given you - take; and what he has forbidden you - refrain from. And fear Allah ; indeed, Allah is severe in penalty."

Surat Al-Ĥashr 59:7



do the sufi reject Hadith ? do the Shia reject Hadith ? NAY!

but you do this means your rejecting a direct command from ALLAH .


allahu musta'an

May Allah guide you and increase you in knowledge.

a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

Sorry about that. You can ask whatever you want

(oh & I tried to tie the last paragraph of my last response back into the OP, but maybe I didn't do it too well)

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Another thing I forgot .... lol

Most of the same chain of narrators of ahaadith are the same people who passed the Quran itself down.....derp derp go figure eh ?

a reply to: Kapusta

I do not reject the words shared to the Prophet (PBUH) which he recited for our benefit...

& after this I am my own person, I do not necessarily need to be identical to Muhammad for I cannot be, that is not possible.

I can just be the best me.

So in that stance I reject the Hadith.


Do you also accept all the Hadith that proclaim Aisha was a minor...

I could not be a Muslim and hold my morals together if I believed such.
A long with many other contradictions.


Now as to your finer points.
For Salat, my own prayers are internal, for now, as I have always struggled with new languages.
& while beautiful, Arabic is very difficult for someone with my mental ailment to comprehend beyond little phrases & words here and there.

For Zakat, I give what I can, when I can, to people in need.
I think the amount is weighed in the gesture, not he sum.


I clean myself often, even before I pick up The Quran.
So I do indeed purify myself daily.


What you say about marraige is part of my moral fabric anyways, I would not engage in marriage with more than one person, nor if I did would they be related.



My main point is though, as with Ramadan, I fast, but not every day of the Holy Month, for I am on medication for schizophrenia, which has in turn, aside from hindering my national lexicon, also causes extreme hunger due to meds.



Now also, I only converted last year, had been studying the Quran for maybe 4-5 years...
And am from London, I don't know where you are from or your brains capabilities, but those two for me, have caused me to struggle with the language and thus, Salat.

Also it's why I haven't chosen a denomination other than Quranist...
How could I truly accept the Hadith without first reading all of them?



I believe in the Last Day...
I believe Muhammad (PBUH) is the final Prophet...
Of One God, Allah...



Now, finally, explain to me why I should accept contradictory stipulations to the Quran from people who were not prophets & very fallible to misinterpretation or just outright lies...
200 years after the Prophet passed away...


I... Cannot!



Salam Alaikum.

a reply to: Kapusta

How can the deen not be covered if the Quran is a complete & perfect book?

I'll take the orders over the suggestions...


As I submit my will to Allah (SWT)...
Not men who wrote down what was supposedly said long after the Prophet (PBUH) passed.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

You wouldn't really be defined by he Quran to be honest.

It's always about unbelievers who fight against Islam (physically) or persecute Muslims because of what we believe.



Criticism of Islam is not a transgression...
Not in the Quran anyhow.


We would be told to debate with you on the finer points.

If you become judgmental or spread lies then we are told to leave the room, change the subject, or debate properly...



Even apostates...
Praphrasing the Quran says "if someone believes, then disbelieves, then believes again, and goes on in disbelief, Allah will surely not guide them"

But it doesn't say to harm them in any way.

Judgement is for Allah...

Look at my signature...


It's basically telling Muhammad (PBUH) that he is not important enough to force his beliefs on others, because if Allah (SWT) willed for everyone to believe they would, & what is free will without choice?


So it's not hard to interpret when you read the full scripture in context.

Just realised I changed my siganture.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Converted 3 years ago, and like you, that "hadith" regarding Aisha(ra) was more than just an anomaly. It's used as a character assassination of the prophet(SAW) today and contradicts what the prophet stood for, a walking Quran. The Quran forbids child marriage and if anybody in this thread agrees with that "ahadith" and is willing to go to their grave believing such fallacies, then that is your problem. God gave mankind the mental capacity to think, not follow the crowd. On that day, the hell bound people will regret not using their intelligence.


I don't see myself as a Quranist. If an ahadith correlates with the Quran, and does not contradict it, then you can make some use out of it.