It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

RAWR! Stop blaming Sunnis & Shiites! It's Wahabis and their backers! (*Calms down) Let me explain

page: 3
26
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 04:17 PM
link   
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

HAMAS ,Hezbbola are Iran's children I 've read the raw intel in S2 when I worked in HQ in a Cav Sqdn.
edit on 7-4-2015 by cavtrooper7 because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 04:18 PM
link   

originally posted by: Blackmarketeer
S+F OP, good info.

Saudi Wahabism has some strange bedfellows - namely the necons in the United States and Israel. All three seem to desire disrupting the other Arab states and forcing regime changes, especially in Iran.


Very true. It's so complicated I literally stopped researching it LOL

But in general, Israel doesn't want any strong Muslim countries unless they're allies (especially any countries that support the Palestinians, like Syria, Saddam's Iraq, Iran, and Qaddafi's Libya). The Wahabis don't want any secular or Shiite Muslim countries. The GCC has many plans for economic & regional power, and Iran is their chief rival in natural gas transactions and regional power plays. And the neo-cons in the West support Israel and support the GCC, who invests a lot into Western economies & into Western defense contract (and supports the petrodollar). Add in the fact that Russia supports Iran & Syria, and you can see why each side is fighting each other.



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 04:33 PM
link   
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Well it is know fact during a history that superpowers have interest is in ME and now Syria.
Russia backs up Assad as Syria is their number one customer of military supplies, if Russia loose Syria it also loose Iran. Also China has economic bonds with Syria. Both of them want other superpowers out of there. US, Uk and France have been militarizing Syrian opposite.
Russia does not want to loose Iran and Western powers do not want to loose Saudis. Superpowers do not give a rat´s behind as long as money flows back to them.
I have no interest in ME wars, but if both superpowers would leave Syria alone things would calm down.. this is what i understand.



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 04:41 PM
link   

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

HAMAS ,Hezbbola are Iran's children I 've read the raw intel in S2 when I worked in HQ in a Cav Sqdn.


Neither existed until Israel had invaded Palestine & Lebanon...


Again...
Freedom fighters, not terrorists.



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 04:44 PM
link   
a reply to: dollukka

If they had left it alone to begin with maybe you're right...

But as it stands, the Syria we know of will cease to be...

It has flared up into a sectarian issue by proxy...


Now either Sunnis will suffer if Assad is victorious, or Alawites will suffer if Assad is toppled...
In Syria & Lebanon.


Shameful situation, so sad!
edit on 7-4-2015 by CharlieSpeirs because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 04:46 PM
link   

Islam simply means "submission to God"

= WIlling submission to slavery.

I bow down to no-one.



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 04:48 PM
link   

originally posted by: LionOfGOD

Islam simply means "submission to God"

= WIlling submission to slavery.

I bow down to no-one.


Pride. Isn't that the first of the 7 Sins...




posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 04:50 PM
link   
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Things have escalated it might be too late now. Any predictions how it will end ?



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 04:53 PM
link   

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: dollukka

If they had left it alone to begin with maybe you're right...

But as it stands, the Syria we know of will cease to be...

It has flared up into a sectarian issue by proxy...


Now either Sunnis will suffer if Assad is victorious, or Alawites will suffer if Assad is toppled...
In Syria & Lebanon.


Shameful situation, so sad!


I don't think most Sunnis will suffer if Assad stay in power though. The majority of Syrians are Sunnis, but they're mainly fighting off the outsiders.

I do believe there will have to be some major changes there if he wins, though. I think they'll either have to have a representative democracy of sorts or something where the masses have a real voice in things. So yeah, I agree that the Syria we know will be gone one way or another. It can't go back to how it was.



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 04:58 PM
link   
a reply to: dollukka

Personally, I don't feel comfortable predicting such outcomes for people who are living in such distress...


But from what's been said, it's difficult to gauge.



Sunnis want retribution against the Alawites in Syria & Lebanon for their fight against the revolution...

Assad is a Class A psychopath, as his last interview showed...



Doesn't look good imo.



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 05:15 PM
link   

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: LionOfGOD

Islam simply means "submission to God"

= WIlling submission to slavery.

I bow down to no-one.


Pride. Isn't that the first of the 7 Sins...



Irrelevant, for apparently there was this guy 2000 years ago who
alredy took care of all that for me.



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 05:24 PM
link   
It's called a Macheavellian dialectic (sp). This has been done again and again with all groups in order to controll and manipulate...come on isnt this a conspiracy websight? Its happened with christians, Buddhists Hindu...Republicans, Dems, Castes...doesnt anyone watch the ball any more. reply to: dollukka



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 06:19 PM
link   

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs

originally posted by: dollukka
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

As Sunnis and Shiites are constantly trying to kill each other, i just wonder why their God hates his people so much that they can´t live in peace.. i think it is a valid question.


I think it's a logical fallacy!


Name me a Sunni & Shiite you've ever know to kill each other...


Don't talk to me about Wahhabi and Zionist infiltrators in market places or on a bus that the media said was sectarian!

Give me specifics!


I can speculate these people are not Islamic just as much as you can claim they are.


Only Ockham's Razor says I'm right because we are not supposed to kill anyone only in self defence!
Anybody!!!


Yep. In fact, in 4:93 of the Qur'an it tells us that whoever willingly kills another believer is going to Hell.
Surat 4:93



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 06:39 PM
link   


I would like to Add that I am Salafi and I am on par with most of what OP shared .


But I also wanted to make note that these Khuaraij make claims of being salafi but they are not .


Real quick Bio , Born raised Christian , studied religion , found Islam , studied Islam for years , became salafi , Because its based off of FACT and Evidence of scripture and not bid'ah ( innovation of scripture ) . One can say it's the purest form of Islam .

You see the salafi trace everything back to the Shahaba and Muhammad (pbuh) we follow Islam how they followed . If it's not able to be traced back then it's questionable (in rearguard to hadith etc ) because over the years like many other religions Islam has become Infected with Innovation of scripture and culture tradition . so as a salaf we want to practice the purest form of Islam .

one can compare it to Orthodox Christianity vs west burrow . of course salafi being orthodoxy lol .

So long story short ! True Islam does not have all these extremes you see on MSM and the internet . Much of that comes from Innovation and culture tradition and influence .

anyway hope this helps !

P.S Op I still go fishing , hangout with friends , live life ! do fun things ! you name it i do it ! being salafi means siticking to the Quran and Sunna !


Salam alikume Akhi thanks for the post



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 06:49 PM
link   

originally posted by: Kapusta


I would like to Add that I am Salafi and I am on par with most of what OP shared .


But I also wanted to make note that these Khuaraij make claims of being salafi but they are not .


Real quick Bio , Born raised Christian , studied religion , found Islam , studied Islam for years , became salafi , Because its based off of FACT and Evidence of scripture and not bid'ah ( innovation of scripture ) . One can say it's the purest form of Islam .

You see the salafi trace everything back to the Shahaba and Muhammad (pbuh) we follow Islam how they followed . If it's not able to be traced back then it's questionable (in rearguard to hadith etc ) because over the years like many other religions Islam has become Infected with Innovation of scripture and culture tradition . so as a salaf we want to practice the purest form of Islam .

one can compare it to Orthodox Christianity vs west burrow . of course salafi being orthodoxy lol .

So long story short ! True Islam does not have all these extremes you see on MSM and the internet . Much of that comes from Innovation and culture tradition and influence .

anyway hope this helps !

P.S Op I still go fishing , hangout with friends , live life ! do fun things ! you name it i do it ! being salafi means siticking to the Quran and Sunna !


Salam alikume Akhi thanks for the post



Thank you! The hardest part for me writing this was to be specific enough to get the points across, while being vague enough not to favor any specific denomination or school of thought. I don't think I did a great job at that but that's for smart people like you to clarify! LOL

The version I first wrote was at least twice as long as this and had too many of the denominational arguments, like "Was Ali forced to accept the 1st Caliph or did he do so willingly?", etc. So I tried to stick to the basic point of showing why Wahabis aren't Sunni or Shia. And why they're not really Salafi, although they claim they are to avoid the negative connotations of being labeled "Wahabis".



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 06:51 PM
link   

originally posted by: LionOfGOD

Islam simply means "submission to God"

= WIlling submission to slavery.

I bow down to no-one.


yeah well Religion is not for everyone !

and before you go on about Islam forcing people to summit ask your self this

how can you force anyone to summit their will to god ?



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 07:07 PM
link   

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: Kapusta


I would like to Add that I am Salafi and I am on par with most of what OP shared .


But I also wanted to make note that these Khuaraij make claims of being salafi but they are not .


Real quick Bio , Born raised Christian , studied religion , found Islam , studied Islam for years , became salafi , Because its based off of FACT and Evidence of scripture and not bid'ah ( innovation of scripture ) . One can say it's the purest form of Islam .

You see the salafi trace everything back to the Shahaba and Muhammad (pbuh) we follow Islam how they followed . If it's not able to be traced back then it's questionable (in rearguard to hadith etc ) because over the years like many other religions Islam has become Infected with Innovation of scripture and culture tradition . so as a salaf we want to practice the purest form of Islam .

one can compare it to Orthodox Christianity vs west burrow . of course salafi being orthodoxy lol .

So long story short ! True Islam does not have all these extremes you see on MSM and the internet . Much of that comes from Innovation and culture tradition and influence .

anyway hope this helps !

P.S Op I still go fishing , hangout with friends , live life ! do fun things ! you name it i do it ! being salafi means siticking to the Quran and Sunna !


Salam alikume Akhi thanks for the post



Thank you! The hardest part for me writing this was to be specific enough to get the points across, while being vague enough not to favor any specific denomination or school of thought. I don't think I did a great job at that but that's for smart people like you to clarify! LOL

The version I first wrote was at least twice as long as this and had too many of the denominational arguments, like "Was Ali forced to accept the 1st Caliph or did he do so willingly?", etc. So I tried to stick to the basic point of showing why Wahabis aren't Sunni or Shia. And why they're not really Salafi, although they claim they are to avoid the negative connotations of being labeled "Wahabis".


I hear you ! I have heard many points of view on this , So ill have to go from a salafi position and that being "is their authentic evidence to suggest Ali was forced to the first caliph ?" We must take only what is fact .

here is a rough outline of the differences between Wahabi and salafi .

I don't fully agree with the author because their are some fine details left out .

but at least people on the boards will understand a bit better .


The principal tenet of Salafism is that the Islam that was preached by Muhammad Sallallahu 'alaihi wasallam and practiced by his Companions, as well as the second and third generations succeeding them, was pure, unadulterated, and, therefore, the ultimate authority for the interpretation of the two sources of revelation given to Muhammad, Sallallahu 'alaihiwasallam namely the Qur'an and the Sunnah. This is not interpreted to mean an imitation of cultural norms or trends that are not part of the legislated worship of Islam, but rather the fundamental beliefs of Islam, or 'Aqeedah.

The term Salafi is sometimes replaced with "Wahhabi", especially in American Orientalist and popular literature, but not always in a derogatory sense. However, the term is used overwhelmingly so in Shi'ite and many Sufi references, where it is replaced with the word "Wahhabi" almost as a rule. The term "Wahhabism" is, in turn, connected to various accusations of heresies and practices quite unknown to Salafi adherents, and is often spoken of in the American media in relation to terrorism, or "extremist" Islam.

Salafis categorically reject the Wahhabi label, because they consider it to be largely unfounded, an object of some controversy. Salafis will argue that Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab did not establish a new school of thought but rather revived the pure, unadulterated Islam that was practiced by the earliest generations of Muslims. Abd-al-Wahhab's writings, such as his magnum opus, Kitab at-Tawheed (The Book of Tawheed), plus others such as Masaa'il al-Jaahiliyyah (Aspects of the Days of Ignorance), and Kashf ash-Shubuhaat (A Removal of the Doubts) are agreed upon almost without exception, and are rarely considered by those that use the term "Wahhabi" for an understanding of "Wahhabism", or those who denigrate his methodology and beliefs openly, further consolidating the perceived intent of malice, or misconception.

While the ascription of "Salafi" has most commonly been used in the Arab World, and possibly even more so now by Muslims in the West, it is usually contextual, and secondary to the more common term Ahl-as-Sunnah (i.e., "People of the Sunnah"). Ahl al-Hadeeth (The People of Hadeeth) is more often used in the Indian subcontinent within the same context, identifying the adherents of Salafi orthodoxy, while used more in Arabic academia to specifically indicate the scholars and students of Hadeeth. All are considered to bear the same or similar connotation and have been used interchangeably by Muslim scholars throughout the ages, Ahl al-Hadeeth possibly being the oldest recorded term used to describe the adherents to the beliefs of the first three generations. Ahl as-Sunnah is overwhelmingly used by Muslim scholars, including Salafi scholars, but often by other than the Salafis, such as the Ash'ari sect, leading to a greater use of the term "Salafi" in the context of differentiation.



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 08:10 PM
link   
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Hi - nice info..
Could you please explain where the Sufi's fit into this timeline?
Thanks



edit on 7/44/15 by 0 x 0 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 08:23 PM
link   

originally posted by: 0 x 0
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Hi - nice info..
Could you please explain where the Sufi's fit into this timeline?
Thanks




Honestly, I don't know much accurate info on the Sufis. I had some books on them, but it was more about their poetry and sayings. I want to say it was Hafiz/Hafez (the poet), but I'm not sure.

I've heard a lot of contradicting things about them, including that they were around before the Prophet Muhammad. I think some Islamic schools of thought don't even consider them Muslims, because of a Sufi belief that says something like "we can all awaken God within ourselves". At the same time, that may be a misconception or just a specific form of Sufism. But I've never gotten to talk w/an actual Sufi to see what they follow or when they came into being.

Sorry about that



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 08:31 PM
link   
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Thanks, I'll have to do some more research..



new topics

top topics



 
26
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join