Greece puts a figure on Nazi reparations claims

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: SubTruth

No, they are symptoms of a badly run economy/country.

As I said, there are examples of "socialist" countries in the North of Europe (see Scandinavia, or even Germany) which have none of these issues. It is a problem in Greek society, not with "socialism".

Bailouts are are part of the progressive agenda.....Germany bailouts Greece. All of Europe and the US for that matter has bought into this failed mindset. It is the root cause of this entire problem.


PTB create the problem and than they fix it. They need a willing partner in the citizens how do you do that......Progressive liberal ideals.

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: SubTruth

Actually, Greece's failures are not because of "socialism", but rather a total lack of any ability to run a country. Tax avoidance is rampant, nepotism is rife - it was even found that "jobs" were given to relatives/friends when they didn't even turn up, they were just getting paid for it - and corruption is endemic.

Had Greece actually run a proper ship, like we see in Northern Europe, then they wouldn't have been in this position. We see plenty of countries in Europe which you would probably describe as "socialist" who are doing just fine.

That's rich coming from a bloke who comes from a country that owes 4.8 trillion pounds and counting. When are you going to pay off that debt? Ever wonder why the UK is flooded by all the 3rd world immigrants and why they're welcome? It's because it's an attempt at using cheap labour to get out of this debt mess. It's a good try but the UK will end up broke and racially compromised with Sharia Law the law of the land.

As for Greece, in 1942 Nazi Germany forced Greece to give 476,000,000 Reich Marks. As well as "borrowing" gold reserves, and other assets. Greece was also forced to pay for the German occupation, and has never received compensation for either the damage, physical, and economic, or the atrocities committed during this period. As Germany only formally surrendered to the four powers, Russia, USA, UK, and France, Greece had no say in the reparations, and received only 115,000,000 DM in 1960 as a payment from a then impoverished Germany. Germany should now repay her massive debt to the Greek Government, and if not, yes, seize every German asset they have bought so cheaply during the austerity they forced upon Greece. They knew Greece was not economically ready to join the euro, and helped cook the books, together with crooked Greek politicians, to enable it to happen. They should pay as they invaded, destroyed infrastructure, murdered civilians including women and children.

As for those talking about Alexander or Britain vis a vis India for reparations, the difference here is Germany committed the atrocities within living memory and lost the war. Alex and Britain won and it was a long time ago. At any rate Persia definitely started that war too by invading the Greek city states.

With Russia, why not join some union with Russia? It has to be better than being economically raped and unjustly ridiculed by so called "friends" in a union where everyone is supposed to look after each other. Let's look at how these "friends" treated the land of my ancestors.

Remember the private Irish banks that were about to go broke because of foolish real estate lending? Much of their money was wholesale funds, particularly from German financial institutions.

Instead of allowing them to go broke, or at least default on the wholesale debt, the ECB and Germany (including Merkel) heavied the Irish government into bailing them out so the Irish taxpayers rather than the careless German lenders were left with the loss of wealth.

This was done in a rush and the halfwits in the Irish CB, in cahoots with the ECB, pressured the Irish government into stiffing Irish taxpayers.

Germany is an industrial giant of a country but a significant part of its current good financial position has been achieved by bailing out its financial institutions at the expense of taxpayers in periphery countries.

Due to its deal of cheap taxes within the EU for huge US technology firms operating in or moving funds through Ireland, that country has been able to cope, though its taxpayers are still stuck with the bill to bail out German banks. Greece never had that deal, which worked best for an English speaking country and was denied the ability to devalue its currency to at least make it more competitive in the industries it has.

a reply to: Macdon

[snipped]

Anyhoo, the difference between the UK and Greece is

1. Our economy is huge compared to yours - comparativley speaking, we owe less when measured as a proportion of our GDP than Greece does
   
2. We can actually afford to service that debt - Greece cannot
   
3. People want to come to the UK because, as far as Europe goes, the best opportunities lay here and no where else.
   
4. As a proportion of our GDP and our budget, debt servicing and the total debt are both falling - Greece is not.
   

[snipped]

a reply to: dollukka

I wonder has US returned German gold

US did the Marshall plan, doubt it covered the value
of the gold Germany stole from all the other nations.

Marshall plan

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: Macdon
[snipped]

Anyhoo, the difference between the UK and Greece is

1. Our economy is huge compared to yours - comparativley speaking, we owe less when measured as a proportion of our GDP than Greece does
   
2. We can actually afford to service that debt - Greece cannot
   
3. People want to come to the UK because, as far as Europe goes, the best opportunities lay here and no where else.
   
4. As a proportion of our GDP and our budget, debt servicing and the total debt are both falling - Greece is not.
   

[snipped]

Your debt is about 90% of GDP and rising. There are obvious differences between Greece and UK, the major ones being UK is larger and controls its own currency. The old British distrust of Germany stood them in good stead. Perhaps other Europeans will see the light? Somehow I think not.

The UK's debt servicing and the total debt may both be falling, but they didn't have to deal with the failed policies of the troika which reduced Greece's GDP by over 25%.

FYI, back in 1976, the British asked the IMF to fund their national debt. They were loaned bailout money by the IMF in return for slashing govt. spending.

It caused social and industrial chaos, and led to the election, a few years later of the most right wing administration Britain have ever had. Some people remember Mrs T's days as the time when Britain turned the page and got their country back on track. Some people remember it as the time when British industry was decimated and unemployment soared.

To this day, Britain is still divided about Mrs T's legacy.

Britain has been through the same as Greece - they were labelled the sick man of Europe. They too, were beyond redemption.

However, Britain did not have to deal with the self serving and failed policies of a bunch of self serving unelected bureaucrats.

[snipped] You don't own the internet. It's not just for you to peddle your point of view as gospel.

a reply to: stumason

So do kindly shut up with the NATO crap

NATO warmonger…

a reply to: Ex_MislTech

originally posted by: Ex_MislTech
US did the Marshall plan, doubt it covered the value
of the gold Germany stole from all the other nations.

Aside from the fact that Germany wasn't even the biggest beneficiary of the European Recovery Program ("Marshall-Plan"), the 'value' of it is considered as fully repayed as of 3rd October 2010, when the Federal Republic of Germany made the last payment (~70 mil €).
This is also officially considered to be the last payment on all known debts resulting from both world wars.

originally posted by: SubTruth
a reply to: dollukka

What happened to the once great nation of Greece? All they can do is stick out a hand and and beg for help. What happens when all that money is gone Greece?



Greece is a failed country....It is not the country failing the people, it is the people failing the country.

It is failing, like many other countries that accepted the Euro are failing for one simple reason;

When GDP falls, when production is limited or harvests are not what was expected, or tourists don't visit as often or in sufficient numbers, Greece cannot devalue its currency to compensate and make Greece a more attractive place in which to invest or spend money in.

Being in the Euro, (and perhaps being in the EU), is what is causing most of the financial problems for those who gave up their traditional currencies, that could be devalued to attract investment for one that is set by European central banks and cannot be devalued at a local level.

They should get out of the Euro, if not the EU and sort out their own currency, much like Iceland has done and has done very nicely since.

originally posted by: MysterX

originally posted by: SubTruth
a reply to: dollukka

What happened to the once great nation of Greece? All they can do is stick out a hand and and beg for help. What happens when all that money is gone Greece?

Greece is a failed country....It is not the country failing the people, it is the people failing the country.

It is failing, like many other countries that accepted the Euro are failing for one simple reason;

When GDP falls, when production is limited or harvests are not what was expected, or tourists don't visit as often or in sufficient numbers, Greece cannot devalue its currency to compensate and make Greece a more attractive place in which to invest or spend money in.

Being in the Euro, (and perhaps being in the EU), is what is causing most of the financial problems for those who gave up their traditional currencies, that could be devalued to attract investment for one that is set by European central banks and cannot be devalued at a local level.

They should get out of the Euro, if not the EU and sort out their own currency, much like Iceland has done and has done very nicely since.

Mr Juncker issued a categorical guarantee that Greece will not be forced out of EMU. “There will never be a Grexit. The country is and will remain a member of monetary union."

In other words Greece is OWNED!

Greek Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis has described his country as "the most bankrupt in the world" and says "European leaders knew all along that Athens would never repay its debts."

In other words Greece is OWNED!

Time for an exit, yeah sure!

Unless there are still Nazi leadership to get the funds from, reparations are nothing more than extortion.

originally posted by: Macdon

originally posted by: MysterX

originally posted by: SubTruth
a reply to: dollukka

What happened to the once great nation of Greece? All they can do is stick out a hand and and beg for help. What happens when all that money is gone Greece?

Greece is a failed country....It is not the country failing the people, it is the people failing the country.

It is failing, like many other countries that accepted the Euro are failing for one simple reason;

When GDP falls, when production is limited or harvests are not what was expected, or tourists don't visit as often or in sufficient numbers, Greece cannot devalue its currency to compensate and make Greece a more attractive place in which to invest or spend money in.

Being in the Euro, (and perhaps being in the EU), is what is causing most of the financial problems for those who gave up their traditional currencies, that could be devalued to attract investment for one that is set by European central banks and cannot be devalued at a local level.

They should get out of the Euro, if not the EU and sort out their own currency, much like Iceland has done and has done very nicely since.

Mr Juncker issued a categorical guarantee that Greece will not be forced out of EMU. “There will never be a Grexit. The country is and will remain a member of monetary union."

In other words Greece is OWNED!

Greek Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis has described his country as "the most bankrupt in the world" and says "European leaders knew all along that Athens would never repay its debts."

In other words Greece is OWNED!

Time for an exit, yeah sure!

Of course it is owned, once you sign with the IMF, first thing to happen is state assets are privatised off.

The only way Greece will win is if they all take up arms and defend their country.