Greece puts a figure on Nazi reparations claims

Greece's deputy finance minister said yesterday (6 April) Germany owes Greece nearly €279 billion in reparations for the Nazi occupation of the country. Greek governments and also private citizens have pushed for war damages from Germany for decades, but the Greek government has never officially quantified its reparation claims.

A parliamentary panel set up by Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras's government started work last week, seeking to claim German debts, including war reparations, as well as the repayment of a so-called occupation loan that Nazi Germany forced the Bank of Greece to make and the return of stolen archaeological treasures.
Speaking at parliamentary committee, Deputy Finance Minister Dimitris Mardas said Berlin owed Athens €278.7 billion, according to calculations by the country's General Accounting Office. The occupation loan amounts to €10.3 billion.

The campaign for compensation has gained momentum in the past few years as Greeks have suffered hardship under austerity measures imposed by the European Union and International Monetary Fund in exchange for bailouts totalling €240 billion to save Greece from bankruptcy. Tsipras has frequently blamed Germany for the hardship stemming from the imposition of austerity. He has angered Berlin by threatening to push for reparations in the middle of talks to unlock aid for Greece. Germany has repeatedly rejected Greece's claims and says it has honoured its obligations, including a 115 million deutschmark payment to Greece in 1960.

EurActiv

Greece using " get out of jail " card. Well it is obvious it won´t get that. All i can say if it helps Greece to get out of its misery.. go for it.
Maybe my country should do the same and ask same from Russia. ( tho we were only country who actually paid our reparations, even it was Russia who attacked us )

a reply to: dollukka

Thats so odd. Do they really think they will be taken seriously?

Kiss the hands of the person you lend money to, because you will have to kiss their feet to get repaid.

Infrastructure damage and theft....
Occupational damage and theft...
Ancient artefact damage and theft...
Loss of revenue in such time...

Taking inflation into consideration...

Probably owed more than that.



Everyone should sue Germany for such atrocities.

They sat back and put the Nazis into power and then tried to fully genocide Gypsies, Jews, Disabled people & many others for their Aryan Master Race...

Merkel looks pretty Aryan, seems they did well out of it all.


China should do it to Japan aswell...

& Europe to Italy for Mussolini's part in the war.
Russia too for Stalin's purge...



& the Vatican for it's historical crimes...

Then seize the billions in assets of ISIS...




Divide it up between the nations affected!

What the economy bloom!!!

After war German reparations for Greece was estimated 480 million Reich marks, Germany paid 115. This sum was accepted by the Greece government as a down payment, not as an end deal. Those were fast calculations and the real damage ( art etc ) were not included. Intrest+ real damage, im not sure would it be 279 billion tho.

If Germany would pay all the war reparations they own , Europe would be much better off.. wishful thinking.


I wonder has US returned German gold.. it´s a payback time !

a reply to: dollukka

Greece seems to be a bit late to the reparations party.

Not even sure if a nation can even claim war reparations after such an extended period of time has transpired.

Why the delay until now? Possible because they are skint.

a reply to: andy06shake

German banks will be on the hook, costing Germany lots of money...so Greece just blackmails Germany back the way Germany has been trying to do with Greece.

a reply to: andy06shake

Indeed - it is some 70 years since the War ended and Greece has not really made much out of "reparations" in all that time.

Then all of a sudden, now they want to renegotiate the deal which saved their country from it's own incompetence and bad management, they come up with an amount owed (by their major creditor) as pretty much the total amount they had to borrow to save their country a few years ago...

As a (bad) analogy, it's like running up huge credit card debt (the bad management), getting a big loan to consolidate it, then suing the bank for precisely that amount because of some crap years ago.

Greece needs to move on and stop trying to find excuses for their diabolical economic mismanagement.

The mess that Greece got in to was entirely of their own making. Over-spending and living beyond their means. Reparations is a red herring.

I would love a run down on these figures. They may be owed something, but not what they claim.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
Infrastructure damage and theft....
Occupational damage and theft...
Ancient artefact damage and theft...
Loss of revenue in such time...

Taking inflation into consideration...

Probably owed more than that.



Everyone should sue Germany for such atrocities.

They sat back and put the Nazis into power and then tried to fully genocide Gypsies, Jews, Disabled people & many others for their Aryan Master Race...

Merkel looks pretty Aryan, seems they did well out of it all.


China should do it to Japan aswell...

& Europe to Italy for Mussolini's part in the war.
Russia too for Stalin's purge...



& the Vatican for it's historical crimes...

Then seize the billions in assets of ISIS...




Divide it up between the nations affected!

What the economy bloom!!!

You forgot the US, they should pay back the money for all the destruction they have done in the middle east...

Nobody is inoccent in war, maybe we should remember the reason Hitler even got to power, was because of the debt Germany was forced to pay after WW1
Maybe we shouldnt be so greedy, and learn to share the wealth with those less fortune, before they try to steal it from us...

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Considering the bankers we're the ones that financed both the allied and axis nations for their own nefarious purposes and gains during the conflict in question i imagine if any reparations are indeed owed it should be coming from their pockets.

Then again chance would be a fine thing.

Only country with the money to bail out Greece is China. Because right after Greece is Italy, Spain and France.

I say Fk all the bankers and bring back the drachma. Tell the EU to lick balls. The euro was a tool to rob from the masses.

a reply to: mcChoodles

Dont know about the "drachma" being able to function as a basis for a stable world currency any better than the rest of our monies. Fact is the concept of Money is rather outdated and does nothing but allow the minority to control and dominate the majority, especially so these days.

originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: dollukka

Thats so odd. Do they really think they will be taken seriously?

Kiss the hands of the person you lend money to, because you will have to kiss their feet to get repaid.

The sweetest loan is the one you never have to repay.

The bailout loan is in the ballpark of the damages claim...curious that.

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: andy06shake

Indeed - it is some 70 years since the War ended and Greece has not really made much out of "reparations" in all that time.

Then all of a sudden, now they want to renegotiate the deal which saved their country from it's own incompetence and bad management, they come up with an amount owed (by their major creditor) as pretty much the total amount they had to borrow to save their country a few years ago...

As a (bad) analogy, it's like running up huge credit card debt (the bad management), getting a big loan to consolidate it, then suing the bank for precisely that amount because of some crap years ago.

Technically speaking, the war didn't end until 1990 as before then there was no Germany to sign a peace deal (only east and west Germany). Therefore it is closer to 25 years than 70 years.

Whilst i kind of agree with you, i actually think something will come of this (although certainly not the 279 billion figure) as German lawmakers have actually acknowledged in Parliament that there is a case to answer (and even Bild has run a piece on German culpability here). Since this acknowledgement, Merckel's rhetoric regarding this issue has calmed down considerably - again, showing there may be more to this than meets the eye.

Also, lets be realistic here (not aimed at you Stu, just the thread in general). Greece certainly got itself into this mess but the ECB / IMF have seriously impacted the problem. Greece couldn't afford just over 100 billion Euros in loans so ECB / IMF restructure and refinance.......and now expect nearly 300 Billion Euros back. If they can't pay 100 billion, how the hell are they supposed to pay 3 times that amount? That is simply bad maths / business by the people supposedly most able to sort the problem.

This makes Greece a bit of a special case in my mind as they are both creators of their situation but also an exploited nation, so it certainly isn't all black and white with them.

So the children of those active in WW2 or their grandchildren have to pay up for the mistakes of their (grand)parents? I think it's ridiculous.

originally posted by: johnnyjoe1979
So the children of those active in WW2 or their grandchildren have to pay up for the mistakes of their (grand)parents? I think it's ridiculous.

Didn't alexander the great conquer a good bit of the world? When we adjust for inflation .. damn I hope Greece can afford it.

a reply to: dollukka
Didn't Italy attack and invade Greece just before the Germans did? How come they don't ask for reparations from them? This could get messy.

originally posted by: Flavian
Technically speaking, the war didn't end until 1990 as before then there was no Germany to sign a peace deal (only east and west Germany). Therefore it is closer to 25 years than 70 years.

If we're going to be "technical", the fighting ended in 1945 with the surrender of German forces and the Allied declarations to the end of hostilities. The actual War was wound up by 1951 for most of the Allies (1955 for the Soviet Union). The Allies also assumed the responsibilities of the German Government until the two German states were established. The Treaty on final settlement, in 1991 not 1990, only covered residual rights held over both states conferred onto the victors at the Wars conclusion and assumption of Supreme command over what was the German state at that time.

originally posted by: Flavian
Whilst i kind of agree with you, i actually think something will come of this (although certainly not the 279 billion figure) as German lawmakers have actually acknowledged in Parliament that there is a case to answer (and even Bild has run a piece on German culpability here). Since this acknowledgement, Merckel's rhetoric regarding this issue has calmed down considerably - again, showing there may be more to this than meets the eye.

I don't doubt there is a case, but it is certainly not worth $279 Euro's, that just seems like a cheeky ask by the Greeks to settle their debt and carry on as before.

originally posted by: Flavian
Also, lets be realistic here (not aimed at you Stu, just the thread in general). Greece certainly got itself into this mess but the ECB / IMF have seriously impacted the problem. Greece couldn't afford just over 100 billion Euros in loans so ECB / IMF restructure and refinance.......and now expect nearly 300 Billion Euros back. If they can't pay 100 billion, how the hell are they supposed to pay 3 times that amount? That is simply bad maths / business by the people supposedly most able to sort the problem.

Greece has borrowed a total of $240 Billion Euro's over the course of the crisis, from 2010-2014.

originally posted by: Flavian
This makes Greece a bit of a special case in my mind as they are both creators of their situation but also an exploited nation, so it certainly isn't all black and white with them.

They would not have got anywhere near this level of crisis if they collected taxes and didn't have such levels of nepotism and corruption rampant through their society. Ireland too suffered as a result, took it's bitter pill and has moved on and have been able to do so because, by and large, they run a decent country where corruption is low and people pay their bills.

I have little sympathy for the Greeks in this regard. The shocking level of mismanagement in the country is beyond belief.

originally posted by: grumpy64
a reply to: dollukka
Didn't Italy attack and invade Greece just before the Germans did? How come they don't ask for reparations from them? This could get messy.

The difference is that the Germans helped themselves to whatever they liked from Greece and also took out a loan from the Greek national bank.

The really main difference though is that the Greece-Germany reparation thing was never really resolved. And, like i say above, German lawmakers have actually acknowledged this - it isn't all wishfull thinking by Greece. Up until this acknowledgement by German lawmakers, i was very much in the German camp on this issue. However, when they themselves are saying "actually, there may well be something to this" then we have to start looking at the issue much more seriously.

What i would add is that within Germany this is being portrayed as a moral debt. They have acknowledged that the bank loan was never repaid (10 billion euros). So we have a starting point. The real question is how much they think the "moral debt" is actually worth on top of that 10 billion.