Many states want to eliminate "Exit Exams" in order for a student to graduate from High School.

Many states want to eliminate "Exit Exams" in order for a student to graduate from High School. To me.. If you can pass the test, you understand most of the material". So, what is up with this? Could it possibly also be that schools do not want to be responsible for teachers that do not teach very well?

Another one of those indications that there is conflicting interest concerning the education of our young people.

Two recent studies report striking evidence that exit exams decrease high school completion rates, increase GED test taking, and exacerbate inequalities in educational attainment. One paper concludes tests cause a two percent increase in the dropout rate, which could mean more than 40,000 students per year nationally are denied a diploma.

Source:FairTest

We need to understand that the education or our young depends more on the abilities to teach them, than those that cannot comprehend.
It is another smoking gun of failure of this government to properly address educational issues in real time.

What does ATS think?

It's actually a good thing imo. Right now kids are not being taught information, and not given an education. They are being taught how to pass a specific test. Anything not on that test is out of bounds.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

And that is why the government, the Department of Education, should ensure that any exit test covers the majority of what the curriculum leading up to a high school senior, as specified by their own guidelines, dictates.

The states are responsible for abiding by those guidelines.

If the schools are not teaching that, then make them. Cut and dry.

If enough of the teachers would speak up and tell those up high to stop pushing things on the students that they will probably never use in their life, the idiots up high might actually listen. The kids know they will never use what they are being taught so they don't want to learn it. Sure, the dumb ones who can't see the future or don't hear their teachers say that they will probably never use this information might actually do good. To spend so much time on some of those algebra calculations that are never used is useless. Teach that stuff in college if the kid goes into that field.

Why are they doing this? Teach the kids useful things, not spending a lot of time on factoring equations. You do not want to learn things you know you will never use in life. The only parts of Math I used was the basics, adding, subtracting, multiplying, dividing, estimating, and geometric angles and circumferences. The rest of the math was a waste of time unless you got into that field.

Same with English, most people never used half of what they were taught, the only reason they would use it is because someone taught them way too much. I hardly used cursive after leaving school, everything said please print.

a reply to: charlyv

The problem is they have a vested interest in not doing that. Their state looks better when the test scores are high. You get them high by drilling in test questions and ignoring other stuff. The US as a whole looks better when test scores are high.

I have no problem with testing, but not how it's being practiced.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: charlyv

The problem is they have a vested interest in not doing that. Their state looks better when the test scores are high. You get them high by drilling in test questions and ignoring other stuff. The US as a whole looks better when test scores are high.

I have no problem with testing, but not how it's being practiced.

Well, then in this we agree. The guidance has to come from the top, and that is exactly why I call it a conflict of interest.
The watch groups for the DOE are not doing their job either, or as suggested, are lobbied out of the equation.

a reply to: charlyv

When kids are educated properly the test is not even needed. It's only there because education was failing, and rather than fix it they came up with a cheaper solution that gave it the appearance of being fixed.

Its my opinion that the exit exams for high school are useless tools for measuring academic worth. Many students that take the exam just randomly mark the answers just to get it done, so they can leave.

Going on to higher education is the real test of whether a student can apply himself/herself on an academic level. Its a shame that some employers need to see those exit exam scores, though.

originally posted by: charlyv
Many states want to eliminate "Exit Exams" in order for a student to graduate from High School. To me.. If you can pass the test, you understand most of the material". So, what is up with this? Could it possibly also be that schools do not want to be responsible for teachers that do not teach very well?

Another one of those indications that there is conflicting interest concerning the education of our young people.

Two recent studies report striking evidence that exit exams decrease high school completion rates, increase GED test taking, and exacerbate inequalities in educational attainment. One paper concludes tests cause a two percent increase in the dropout rate, which could mean more than 40,000 students per year nationally are denied a diploma.

Source:FairTest

We need to understand that the education or our young depends more on the abilities to teach them, than those that cannot comprehend.
It is another smoking gun of failure of this government to properly address educational issues in real time.

What does ATS think?

We had the dumbest exit exam ever! Our school had a full length pool for swim meets. Our exit exam was to swim the length of the pool twice. If you couldn't swim the length of the pool, you failed high school and had to go to summer school JUST for swimming. And I only wish I was kidding. There was a kid with special needs who was a senior 4 times!!! All because he couldn't swim due to coordination problems. Just as dumb, we didn't even have swim classes, so why bother having us do a swim test to graduate? *Shrug* I think we had one class when we entered the school as freshmen and that was it.

To this day, I still don't see how swimming the length of a pool twice has to do with life lessons, but whatever.

a reply to: eManym

In America you can't do that. If you fail the test you don't graduate.

a reply to: charlyv

If the exit tests are anything like the GED, they are a joke. I got nothing wrong when I took it before I went to high school.

Get your kids out of publics school as fast as you can. Until we can ransom our kids away from the public sector teacher's unions, they are in peril.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
It's actually a good thing imo. Right now kids are not being taught information, and not given an education. They are being taught how to pass a specific test. Anything not on that test is out of bounds.

In the real world dead lines are the most important aspect to any job. Don't meet a deadline your job is on the line, and they will go to the next person to do the job.

Exams and tests are there to not only see if the students are showing they know and understand the material but it shows if they can manage their time correctly.

The issue isn't that kids are not passing their exams because of poor teaching, it's the world we live in today. We are in the world of lazy people, wanting to complete tasks instantly, not being patient. With the internet at our students fingertips information can be withdrawn and thrown onto a project or paper quite easy. Sit them down with a book to actually scour it for information and references they will whine and complain about how much 'time' it takes to do so.

I grew up with the national equivalency tests, and from 8th grade on had them pegged out.

Yet I barely graduated high school because I was suspended during 'test week' - missing an equivalency test - an exit test - because I threw a party on a school choir trip while out of our city and supplied the alcohol.

Now do I think what almost happened is fair?

Not especially.

I busted my butt for c grades throughout high school, and despite going on to get a bachelor's and masters well after i graduated, education - in it's traditional sense in America is planned to teach about fraternization and community collaboration - and NOT just indoctrinated skills of memorization.

If tested for I would have aced that balance' between the two test.

In any case. For the beancounters. I am not against the exit exams.

But for the beancounters to not have too many beancounters in their midst - thus jeopardizing their own jobs..

It's not really in their best interest to make the exit exam the make it or break it for graduation.

I'm not under the impression that an exit exam is and has ever been something that's needed for graduation.

I have been - after what happened to me - been under the impression it's nothing more than a way to gauge what the school's doing to the individuals - partiers and not - who go through it.

And nothing more.

if schools eliminate this. You may be putting beancounters out of work. Too many beancounters on the streets is like having too many borg on the streets. Decidedly not fun unless they are all women and dancing nude.

originally posted by: rickymouse
If enough of the teachers would speak up and tell those up high to stop pushing things on the students that they will probably never use in their life, the idiots up high might actually listen. The kids know they will never use what they are being taught so they don't want to learn it. Sure, the dumb ones who can't see the future or don't hear their teachers say that they will probably never use this information might actually do good. To spend so much time on some of those algebra calculations that are never used is useless. Teach that stuff in college if the kid goes into that field.

Why are they doing this? Teach the kids useful things, not spending a lot of time on factoring equations. You do not want to learn things you know you will never use in life. The only parts of Math I used was the basics, adding, subtracting, multiplying, dividing, estimating, and geometric angles and circumferences. The rest of the math was a waste of time unless you got into that field.

Algebra should be taught to students. Algebra is a good way to introduce someone to logical thinking as it is a very procedural math where one thing leads to the other. Besides, Algebra is ridiculously easy. There really shouldn't be a reason you are learning Algebra in college. Especially if you are in a math major (that is just a waste of time and translates into more money spent on filler classes trying to get you up to speed so you can handle your major).

Same with English, most people never used half of what they were taught, the only reason they would use it is because someone taught them way too much. I hardly used cursive after leaving school, everything said please print.

I used to say this, but now I think otherwise. English class teaches more than just cursive. It teaches writing skills. And despite taking english for 12 years in grade school, SOOOOO many people enter college with subpar writing skills. Look at the state of many of the posts on this forum for an example. Many people who post here are YEARS out of college but couldn't spell to save their life (or use the proper usage of the word their). I don't like being a grammar nazi, but I do pride myself on being clear about what I am saying. And you cannot achieve that without english classes.

I do agree with your idea that schools focus on the wrong subjects, but I certainly disagree with your opinion on which ones. I'm glad you don't determine a child's learning curriculum.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: charlyv

When kids are educated properly the test is not even needed. It's only there because education was failing, and rather than fix it they came up with a cheaper solution that gave it the appearance of being fixed.

As is the case for everything politicians do.

Students in states with fairly easy exams were about 4 percent more likely to drop out than students in states without exit exams

a reply to: charlyv

There already are states without exit exams ?

What do they have in its place?

Do they have continuous assessment throughout final year ?

______

I get the idea that 'teaching the test' is distorting students educations - but lowering the bar just so you can say more students are finishing high school isn't much of a victory either.

a reply to: charlyv

Great idea. Standardized testing is anathema to actual education.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

My granddaughter is staying with us, and she has Algebra two. She spent almost three weeks on factoring. When I was in school, we spent maybe two or three days on this. Now, I agree learning how to think is good, but shouldn't they work more on numbers and practices that we use in life. Our generation actually created all the stuff we see, training the next generation to do things. All of a sudden they switched the emphasis in Algebra to include more things that will not be used anywhere. If you stimulate the brain to do a lot of math, that section will grow at the expense of other sections of the brain. What sections are loosing their size, our heads are not getting bigger.

I was a wiz in math, I could beat someone with a calculator multiplying figures like 5407 x 2895. I lost that ability when I banged my head jumping up into a forklift. Now, I don't even miss that ability, I had it for about twenty five years. I needed it when we used sliderules and had to do math with paper and pencils. Calculators took away the need for that. In sixth grade, I learned to multiply and divide, add and subtract from creating my own system that I could do in my head. That was not what they taught in school. I used to write the answers to all the questions on the test within five minutes on the test then had to go fill in all the problem proofs, making the little multiplying and dividing figures on the page for evidence that I was doing them. My answers were usually right but my proof was not always correct though. I hated school, it was so slow and inefficient. If they would have let me go to college in the eleventh grade, I would have gone. Back then, government and econ were necessary and I couldn't take those in the tenth grade. I had enough necessary credits at the end of tenth grade to graduate.

I would not go back to school if they paid me to go. I cannot stand the way they do things. I learn a lot more researching things on my own, and I am no longer researching math. The government knows how to twist the figures to make things look right. Maybe they want us blinded by unnecessary math so we can't see that their figures don't add up. It is not complicated to add and subtract if you are honest and truthful, it is when you want to hide something that complicated math techniques are necessary. They teach us all this complicated math in school so we do not challenge their spending techniques. The government seems to change computer programs every couple of years, why is that. I think they do it to hide things.

This leans towards conditioning people not to challenge their figures because their way of figuring things are so everchanging. They want us to hate complex math to keep us away.

originally posted by: rickymouse
a reply to: Krazysh0t

My granddaughter is staying with us, and she has Algebra two. She spent almost three weeks on factoring. When I was in school, we spent maybe two or three days on this. Now, I agree learning how to think is good, but shouldn't they work more on numbers and practices that we use in life. Our generation actually created all the stuff we see, training the next generation to do things. All of a sudden they switched the emphasis in Algebra to include more things that will not be used anywhere. If you stimulate the brain to do a lot of math, that section will grow at the expense of other sections of the brain. What sections are loosing their size, our heads are not getting bigger.

I was a wiz in math, I could beat someone with a calculator multiplying figures like 5407 x 2895. I lost that ability when I banged my head jumping up into a forklift. Now, I don't even miss that ability, I had it for about twenty five years. I needed it when we used sliderules and had to do math with paper and pencils. Calculators took away the need for that. In sixth grade, I learned to multiply and divide, add and subtract from creating my own system that I could do in my head. That was not what they taught in school. I used to write the answers to all the questions on the test within five minutes on the test then had to go fill in all the problem proofs, making the little multiplying and dividing figures on the page for evidence that I was doing them. My answers were usually right but my proof was not always correct though. I hated school, it was so slow and inefficient. If they would have let me go to college in the eleventh grade, I would have gone. Back then, government and econ were necessary and I couldn't take those in the tenth grade. I had enough necessary credits at the end of tenth grade to graduate.

I would not go back to school if they paid me to go. I cannot stand the way they do things. I learn a lot more researching things on my own, and I am no longer researching math. The government knows how to twist the figures to make things look right. Maybe they want us blinded by unnecessary math so we can't see that their figures don't add up. It is not complicated to add and subtract if you are honest and truthful, it is when you want to hide something that complicated math techniques are necessary. They teach us all this complicated math in school so we do not challenge their spending techniques. The government seems to change computer programs every couple of years, why is that. I think they do it to hide things.

You just gave a case for the rising inefficiency in schooling more so than a case towards not teaching math in school. Just to give you a heads up. Computers are only going to become more and more ingrained into society and ALL computer degrees require WAY more math than just algebra. The computer industry also happens to currently be the most recession proof industry. So if anything, we need MORE math in schools. Not less.

Just to give you a heads up. I didn't like grade school either and still don't want to go back. I have many problems with the way various subjects are taught (namely science and history). I also think that there are subjects that desperately need to be taught that aren't or aren't taught with enough due attention (finances and debt management, economics, government). But removing subjects like math or english are only going to make the situation worse. We do need an overhaul of school curriculums though.

One thing I DO agree with you on though is that we should drop cursive writing from being taught. It is a dinosaur skill that only translates into signing your name and now that you can electronically sign your name, is becoming even less useful.

This leans towards conditioning people not to challenge their figures because their way of figuring things are so everchanging. They want us to hate complex math to keep us away.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Complex math is taught earlier and earlier in schools these days. It's things like multiplication, addition, subtraction and division that are getting less looks.

Also, speaking about complex math, as much as I hated the subject in school, statistics and probability should be taught to all grade school students. So many people don't know how to interpret statistics and probabilities.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Great point.

My 2 cents on that: i would be far happier as an employer if applicants came to me understanding the basic concepts of boolean algebra. If they can do that....a spreadsheet can give them the solution to their math query.