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The Truth About Aliens!!!!!!!!!

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posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 04:28 AM
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IMHO

it is silly to side with either arguments -seeing that neither can hold its own weight. As nerve racking as it might be, I have had to let the UFO/ET question go (given the current evidences). Im not saying its all garbage. Im saying theres just enough evidence for me to be generally convinced, but not enough for me to be solidly convinced. Basically I still reserve a substantial shadow of doubt. Its pretty easy to question the news these days. He-said-she-said abounds everywhere. Funny thing is, internet hear-say isnt any more trustworthy. Bottom line: in a world where you cannot really trust anybody, one is left to speculate all the possibles.

The validity of the ET/UFO puzzle is a 'possible' in my book.




posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 07:05 AM
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Originally posted by PKD
see now, mr. shorty


Okay, im listening.




anti gravity saucers were first sucessfully built in the 1940's by the germans.


This I knew but what makes you think that because they were built on Earth in the 40s they were built where ever on the 40s.





you are essentially spreading disinformation to to people who read these threads.


I beg to differ, I believe there are more than enough facts to support evidence of aliens many hundreds maybe thousands of years ago. Okay, i shopuld of said maybe thousands but i am reasonable confident that they were though.





and you were not alive 1000 years ago


Ill agree with you on that matter.





to say that flying saucers were around thousands of years ago also makes these flying devices biblical


At what point did I say spersificly flying saucers?





in essence by defending your beleifs, you are in fact concealing the truth from everyone else


Sorry but if someone believes every word i say they need a life I believe everyword i say and i am by no means a disinformer. So you know the truth do ya?


Now at least i dont go around claiming to know everything.





but the really bad part about all of this, is that you don't even know that your being used to spread disinformation. take a step back and really think about it for a minute.


I assure you that i have been thinking about this for many years despite my age. I do think i know my stuff but maybe i dont but as i think i do i intend to continue to defend my truth. Whether or not the future should show that you are ignorant of the truth or i am, one way or the other.



Now obviously i will bring up the pyramids becuase as much as Hawass says they were not built by the pharoah Knufu (Cheops).

theory one: Built by Knufu

Theory two: Built by aliens

Of cause you got the Atlantis stuff i see little point in that.

Also, how would oyu explain the pyramids of mars?

And if you want evidence i would say the best way to do that would be to read the updated Sirius Mystery by Robert Temple.





posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 07:11 AM
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Originally posted by PKD

did or does your high school teach economics class? if you cant work out something as simple as the oil embargo, then you might need to attain some more experience in life. and how can you come on here and try to call me a liar, and say that i was not abducted is absurd. what exactly does one call it then, when we are hoisted out of our bed at 3am and floated through a window to a hovering aircraft? it's mindlessness like yours that makes the internet a wasteland of disinformation.


I am becomeing more and more offended by youre idiosy and stupid statements about me calling you a liar. *cough* Troll *cough*. No no economics class over here in the U.K. I do need life exp but until i do i still have enough knowledge to debate the subject with oyu.

My mindlessness? Bloody hell, youre the one thats been floated out into millitary aircraft. Give me proof. Then ill believe you.

If you all you want to do is troll go somewhere else because im pretty sure that that is indeed what you are doing.



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 09:58 AM
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Originally posted by PKD
anti gravity saucers were first sucessfully built in the 1940's by the germans.


Ah, someone who appears to have done some research into the subject. I take it you are referring to the "foo fighters". The evidence on this is still sketchy though. Certainly they were working on engine and radio-interference waves, emitted by a UAV craft which would latch on to the heat signature of allied planes. However, there is more evidence to suggest that these were more along the lines of large, highly magnetic frisbees. It is interesting to note, though, that three disc-shaped craft were captured from a German research facility at the end of the war during the tech-plunder by the U.S. However, none of them were operational, and only one of them was near completion. So it is possible that they developed anti-grav saucer craft, but more likely that they were making good breakthroughs in the technology that was later either abandoned in favor of survival, or ended by V-Day.

You may find this interesting:

After discovering that a Coolidge X-ray tube exhibited thrust when charged to high voltage, Thomas Townsend Brown later realized the thrust came not from the X-rays themselves, but by the electricity coursing through the tube. Utilitzing this knowledge, he later went on to develop a device he called the "Gravitor," an electrical condenser sealed in a Bakelite case, that would exhibit a one-percent weight gain or a one percent weight loss when connected to a 100-kilovolt power supply.

In 1929, Brown wrote up his discoveries in a paper entitled "How I Control Gravitation." Where he postulated that, due to the particular forces exerted equally along all axis points, that the most efficient shape for a craft to utilize this technology would be a disc. This was long before anyone had coined the term "flying saucer".

Brown later went on to work at various Naval research facilities, and eventually to work on the Philadelphia Experiment. There's more to his story, but figured you might like some of the history on tech for it.

It'd be nice to be able to take credit for all this research myself, but in truth, it can all be found in Nick Cook's "The Hunt for Zero Point". A fascinating read by a credible author in the field (also a journalist for Jayne's).


Originally posted by shorty
Now obviously i will bring up the pyramids becuase as much as Hawass says they were not built by the pharoah Knufu (Cheops).


Oi, please don't take this as a troll, but it was actually entirely possible for the Pyramids and other miraculous structures in Egypt to have been built by human hands, using only the technology available to them during that time period. Having attended a few Egyptology seminars for the IEEE, each of them demonstrated ways in which simple problem-solving skills would have easily accomplished tasks that our best construction technology cannot.

A few examples to consider:


  • Mud and Scaffolding - This is one thing the Egyptians could make in abundance, and would allow for the ground to be artificially raised. In the case of a pyramid, the base bricks could be laid out first. Then a scaffolding build around it, and filled with mud, tapered out at one corner to allow a more gentle rise upward. This would, in effect, create a hill, with the base bricks as the "top" of the hill, and consequently, a new ground level. Once the mud dried, The next layer of bricks could be transported up this hill, and simply positioned over the base layer of bricks, as needed, with no need to raise them off the "ground" any higher than a few inches at any given point. Once the second layer of bricks is laid down, more scaffolding, and more mud, sloping upwards to the top of the second brick layer, creating an upwards spiral "road" around the perimeter of the pyramid. Then the third layer moved up and positioned in place over the second layer, then more scaffolding and mud, and so on, and so on, until the thing was capped. At which point you would be left with a big, ugly mountain of mud. At this point, removing the mud was a pretty simple matter. Though mud and scaffolding is compact enough to support the weight of the bricks and the transporters, it could be easily broken away, dug out, and washed off, Scaffolding could be broken down as needed, and reused for other projects. Afterwards, one is left with a slightly dirty pyramid of stone, which could be cleaned. The same technique could have easily been used to create that city, whose name eludes me, which is made entirely of free-standing stone structures with no morter.
  • Labor Teams - A lot of people assume that slave labor was used to make the pyramids. Though this might possibly been the case in later years, the Egyptians didn't take Hebrew slaves until well after the majority of the pyramids were built. There were slaves before then, but not in the sense that we would think of slaves today. They were more like indentured servants, who could own property, make their own money, allowed leisure time, etc. Usually men became slaves voluntarily as a guarentee against a loan. They could have families, and marriage between free people and slaves was common. Children of free women were considered free. Mostly the slaves just spent a good portion of the day working, often times right alongside free men, until they could earn their freedom by paying off whatever debt they owed with money from their spare-time activities. I digress: in general, slaves were hard-working, well-treated, and oftentimes in competition with each other on big projects. There are exceptions to this, of course, but the big contractors who worked the pyramids considered this to be something of a sport, and morale for getting the work done was pretty high because there was a lot of prestige awarded to the "winning teams", which were composed of mostly free men, but also some slaves. The reason mostly free-men were used is that free-men were -cheap-. You didn't have to buy them, they worked for pay, and you didn't have to feed, water, or shelter them. In a way, it was much like a pre-historic reality show. As for the heaviness of the stones used in building the pyramids, if you've ever moved furniture, you know that the more people you have lifting, the more the load gets displaced among those doing the lifting. So that a 1,000 item with 10 people lifting becomes roughly 100 lbs per person. Considering the size of the stones, you could easily fit 20-50 men around one stone, which, assuming a lift of about 150 lbs for a worker in good shape, this allows for an item weighing 3000 to 7500 lbs to be lifted for a brief period of time (long enough, certainly, to position a stone exactly as needed once it was in the vicinity of the right spot).
  • Water, not Wheels - Egyptians had already learned about weight, water, and soil displacement. Some of the best engineering feats in human history came from Egypt and Babylon due to these things. The wheel had not yet even begun to be used in Egypt for anything like transporting heavy loads during the time the pyramids were built. If I recall correctly, they may not have even used the wheel at all until the time of the Romans. However, wheels would have proved futile against the multi-ton stones used, even in the log-form typified in cartoon depictions of egypt, because the ground was simply not suitable for them. However, the extremely fine silt brought up the Nile by aeons was perfect for displacing heavy loads with only a small amount of water. Using silt and water, you could very easily "float" ton after ton of rock, and simply push it where it needed to go. This would allow for easy transportation of stone blocks from the river to the construction site of the pyramid.
  • Soil Displacement - This is another ingenious little way of getting a load to go into the position you need it to go. In the case of large standing spires of stone (the ones that look like the Washington Monument), or reinforcing stone beams, simply lay it out, mark the fulcrum point in the soil, and then dig out the soil from where you need it to go, underneath that point. Once enough soil is removed you can effectively just push/pull the bottom end of the spire into the pit, where it will now be resting at a tilted angle upward. Using ropes and men, it could be held in place perpindicular to the ground with ease, because one doesn't need to pull it upwards, only side-to-side. Then fill in the pit with soil once more, and you have a spire that stands straight up.


Anyway, there was a lot more to these seminars, but those are some of the basic examples of how problem-solving skills can easily outdo technology, and why alien assistance was not even remotely neccesary.



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 10:39 AM
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Originally posted by thelibra

Originally posted by PKD
anti gravity saucers were first sucessfully built in the 1940's by the germans.


Ah, someone who appears to have done some research into the subject. I take it you are referring to the "foo fighters". The evidence on this is still sketchy though.


Not the foo fighters i don't think more likely the realy flying saucers that have just resently be put into public domain. The Geramns toward the end of WW2 worked out how to build flying saucers then the scientists who engineer them went to Russia. Well, most did a few went to America which is where project paperclip comeinto our story.

Ssorry i havent read youre whole post yet Libra hope i havent gone over whatever youve said near the bottom



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 10:44 AM
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Originally posted by thelibra

Oi, please don't take this as a troll, but it was actually entirely possible for the Pyramids and other miraculous structures in Egypt to have been built by human hands, using only the technology available to them during that time period. Having attended a few Egyptology seminars for the IEEE, each of them demonstrated ways in which simple problem-solving skills would have easily accomplished tasks that our best construction technology cannot.

A few examples to consider:


  • Mud and Scaffolding - This is one thing the Egyptians could make in abundance, and would allow for the ground to be artificially raised. In the case of a pyramid, the base bricks could be laid out first. Then a scaffolding build around it, and filled with mud, tapered out at one corner to allow a more gentle rise upward. This would, in effect, create a hill, with the base bricks as the "top" of the hill, and consequently, a new ground level. Once the mud dried, The next layer of bricks could be transported up this hill, and simply positioned over the base layer of bricks, as needed, with no need to raise them off the "ground" any higher than a few inches at any given point. Once the second layer of bricks is laid down, more scaffolding, and more mud, sloping upwards to the top of the second brick layer, creating an upwards spiral "road" around the perimeter of the pyramid. Then the third layer moved up and positioned in place over the second layer, then more scaffolding and mud, and so on, and so on, until the thing was capped. At which point you would be left with a big, ugly mountain of mud. At this point, removing the mud was a pretty simple matter. Though mud and scaffolding is compact enough to support the weight of the bricks and the transporters, it could be easily broken away, dug out, and washed off, Scaffolding could be broken down as needed, and reused for other projects. Afterwards, one is left with a slightly dirty pyramid of stone, which could be cleaned. The same technique could have easily been used to create that city, whose name eludes me, which is made entirely of free-standing stone structures with no morter.
  • Labor Teams - A lot of people assume that slave labor was used to make the pyramids. Though this might possibly been the case in later years, the Egyptians didn't take Hebrew slaves until well after the majority of the pyramids were built. There were slaves before then, but not in the sense that we would think of slaves today. They were more like indentured servants, who could own property, make their own money, allowed leisure time, etc. Usually men became slaves voluntarily as a guarentee against a loan. They could have families, and marriage between free people and slaves was common. Children of free women were considered free. Mostly the slaves just spent a good portion of the day working, often times right alongside free men, until they could earn their freedom by paying off whatever debt they owed with money from their spare-time activities. I digress: in general, slaves were hard-working, well-treated, and oftentimes in competition with each other on big projects. There are exceptions to this, of course, but the big contractors who worked the pyramids considered this to be something of a sport, and morale for getting the work done was pretty high because there was a lot of prestige awarded to the "winning teams", which were composed of mostly free men, but also some slaves. The reason mostly free-men were used is that free-men were -cheap-. You didn't have to buy them, they worked for pay, and you didn't have to feed, water, or shelter them. In a way, it was much like a pre-historic reality show. As for the heaviness of the stones used in building the pyramids, if you've ever moved furniture, you know that the more people you have lifting, the more the load gets displaced among those doing the lifting. So that a 1,000 item with 10 people lifting becomes roughly 100 lbs per person. Considering the size of the stones, you could easily fit 20-50 men around one stone, which, assuming a lift of about 150 lbs for a worker in good shape, this allows for an item weighing 3000 to 7500 lbs to be lifted for a brief period of time (long enough, certainly, to position a stone exactly as needed once it was in the vicinity of the right spot).
  • Water, not Wheels - Egyptians had already learned about weight, water, and soil displacement. Some of the best engineering feats in human history came from Egypt and Babylon due to these things. The wheel had not yet even begun to be used in Egypt for anything like transporting heavy loads during the time the pyramids were built. If I recall correctly, they may not have even used the wheel at all until the time of the Romans. However, wheels would have proved futile against the multi-ton stones used, even in the log-form typified in cartoon depictions of egypt, because the ground was simply not suitable for them. However, the extremely fine silt brought up the Nile by aeons was perfect for displacing heavy loads with only a small amount of water. Using silt and water, you could very easily "float" ton after ton of rock, and simply push it where it needed to go. This would allow for easy transportation of stone blocks from the river to the construction site of the pyramid.
  • Soil Displacement - This is another ingenious little way of getting a load to go into the position you need it to go. In the case of large standing spires of stone (the ones that look like the Washington Monument), or reinforcing stone beams, simply lay it out, mark the fulcrum point in the soil, and then dig out the soil from where you need it to go, underneath that point. Once enough soil is removed you can effectively just push/pull the bottom end of the spire into the pit, where it will now be resting at a tilted angle upward. Using ropes and men, it could be held in place perpindicular to the ground with ease, because one doesn't need to pull it upwards, only side-to-side. Then fill in the pit with soil once more, and you have a spire that stands straight up.


Anyway, there was a lot more to these seminars, but those are some of the basic examples of how problem-solving skills can easily outdo technology, and why alien assistance was not even remotely neccesary.



Thats not trolling i accused P of being one not for disagreeing but for the things he said and implied about myself such as claiming im a disinfo agent and the such.

I havent attended seminars but i know A BIT NOT A LOT BUT ENOUGH for me to disagree. The lack of hiroglyphs for instance and for others click the second link.



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 12:38 PM
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Originally posted by PKD

Originally posted by shorty

Originally posted by Gazrok
The Shag harbor story is full of holes...


[edit on 21-12-2004 by Gazrok]


so why America and the U.K are invadeing Iraq for oil i haven't worked out yet.


did or does your high school teach economics class? if you cant work out something as simple as the oil embargo, then you might need to attain some more experience in life.


You know forwell exactly what i meant by that so stopping talking crap.

Do us all a favour.



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 12:41 PM
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Originally posted by shorty
I havent attended seminars but i know A BIT NOT A LOT BUT ENOUGH for me to disagree. The lack of hiroglyphs for instance and for others click the second link.



And such is your right to disagree whether or not it actually happened that way, I'm just stating the case that it is possible for the pyramids to have been built entirely through human efforts and problem solving. And considering we have more evidence on humans and engineering during that era than we do of alien interaction, I tend to side more with the human factor.



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by thelibra
And such is your right to disagree whether or not it actually happened that way, I'm just stating the case that it is possible for the pyramids to have been built entirely through human efforts and problem solving. And considering we have more evidence on humans and engineering during that era than we do of alien interaction, I tend to side more with the human factor.


You need not explain you're self to me.


No worrys mate



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 01:35 PM
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anti gravity saucers were first sucessfully built in the 1940's by the germans.


If this were true, then we'd all be speaking German right now and hailing Das Furer....

I'm assuming you're speaking of the VRIL, Hanneuver (sp?), etc. craft. The schematics are fantasy musings and conceptual in nature, and the photos are bunk.



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 01:52 PM
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Originally posted by Gazrok

I'm assuming you're speaking of the VRIL, Hanneuver (sp?), etc. craft. The schematics are fantasy musings and conceptual in nature, and the photos are bunk.


I must disagree with you on this. They may never have been used and the chances are that foo fighters weren't the German craft but ball lightening that is often attracted to planes one example is in Russia i think in 1986 but im not sure a bit of ball lightening traveled down the aisle of a jet sparking panic ect.

But it is true that Germans managed to build capable anti grav saucers based on an (i think) originaly Russia design.





posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 02:00 PM
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So, then, following that logic, we would have already had antigrav discs in our possession prior to the Roswell crash...(as we would have recovered them upon winning the war, just as we recovered the scientists).

That dog won't hunt.

If that were so....

1. We would have immediately pounced on the project and by now they'd be quite common in our Air Force. (some 50+ years later).

2. We wouldn't have started at square 1 for rockets to reach space (same Paperclip scientists by the way). We'd have used anti-gravity.

3. Such a revolutionary propulsion system would have been adapted for civilian use, and would have easily have been a power check against the dependance on Middle East Oil. It would have been very priority.



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 02:15 PM
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Another thing to remember about the Foo Fighters.

They werent German or Japnese.

During the war, this is exactly what the allies thought the foo fighters were. Until they pilled the defeated German and Japanese archives, and discovered, to their dismay, that the German and Japanese fighters reported the same thing....and thought they were secrat allied weapons!

So, the foo fighters remain a mystery.

As to german anti gravity saucers, sorry, I don't believe that crap. If they had such things, they would have used them an masse against us. And probably kicked our asses.

And as the wise Gazrok has already stated, had the german scientists already discovered anti gravity saucers, both the Americans and Russians would be tripping over themselves building the stuff and we would not be in the middle east today worrying about oil seizure, since we would have anti gravity, which wouldmake hydrocarbon fuels totally obselete.

If we had this tech, we would be using it. We wouldnt be hiding it. Wed be flying the saucers in arial armadas to terroize foes all around the world.

Sorry, it holds no water.

And to whoever said flying saucers have only been around 60 years, i suggest you read up on your history better, since you obviously know squat.

Strange objects in the sky have been reported since the time of Egypt, in historical records. Pharoh and his whole army saw several bright burning discs fly over and disappear off into the horizon. I believe Alexander the great saw flying "shields". The Paiute Indians of California speak of old legends of star people riding in silver canoes who drift to earth and steal people.

So do a little reading please.



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 02:43 PM
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Originally posted by Gazrok


1. We would have immediately pounced on the project and by now they'd be quite common in our Air Force. (some 50+ years later).

2. We wouldn't have started at square 1 for rockets to reach space (same Paperclip scientists by the way). We'd have used anti-gravity.

3. Such a revolutionary propulsion system would have been adapted for civilian use, and would have easily have been a power check against the dependance on Middle East Oil. It would have been very priority.


Yes, but after the surpossed burning of the craft and the paperwork on them the scientists although knowing the basics would have to re-work and in essence rebuild the whole thing this may have taken years and it is very well documented that it was a black project and that it was scrapped some time in the 80a so maybe they just couldn't do it.

Why do you think it would be a wonder weopon theres a reason why they arent be used.

But as for why they weren't used for space travel i couldn't say.


You raise good points


PKD

posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 03:09 PM
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Originally posted by shorty

Originally posted by PKD

Originally posted by shorty

Originally posted by Gazrok
The Shag harbor story is full of holes...


[edit on 21-12-2004 by Gazrok]


so why America and the U.K are invadeing Iraq for oil i haven't worked out yet.


did or does your high school teach economics class? if you cant work out something as simple as the oil embargo, then you might need to attain some more experience in life.



some real world honest advice here: 1.pay more attention in english class, and actually read the selected assignments. 2. look at all angles of a particular mysterty or or problem before making a final analysis, sort of like algerbra. 3. spend more time paying attention to your teachers, rather than wasting your time on the internet. The internet is a wasteland, and your closed minded mentality is simply dilluting it's content even moreso. read a real research book as opposed to reading websites. the internet is mainly speculation. research literature is truth. and the line about german saucer enginners going to russia after ww2 is kind of funny. you wouldn't happen to have all the names of all the physicists and engineers that worked on aeronaughtics for germany during this time period would you? oh ,and in regards to your comments about goerge bush jr. and his intrest in oil, no i don't know what you mean, because i do not allign myself with television consciousness as you do. television is not real. so turn it off and walk outside of your little flat and talk to some people in the street.

You know forwell exactly what i meant by that so stopping talking crap.

Do us all a favour.



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 03:16 PM
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Think about that for a moment. Let's suppose that Germany had won...and then captured US scientists. Let's further suppose that we had managed to destroy any existing A-Bombs, and all notes on the matter. How long do you think it would take to again have a functioning A-Bomb? 50 years? Hardly...more like a year, tops.

Hitler was VERY quick to embrace new tech and rush it into service. With the war quickly going downhill, had he had some of these, they would have easily been sent to raise hell on the US mainland.



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 03:26 PM
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PKD, I have read many reshearch books i do pay attention in english but i am not very good at it nor are you though at least i start most sentances with a CAPITOL LETTER. You know nothing about my life dont claim to. The T.V aint real i tell you what smash you're head through the glass that should tell you whether or not its real. How i live my life is my own choice.

Now back on topic why dont you try and debate talk whatever you want to call it and answer what i have said rather than critiseing a way of life you no nothing about nor will you ever. You dont know me. You dont know nothing other than how to avoid my testiments and offend my life style you are a pointless idiot my friend.



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 03:31 PM
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Originally posted by Gazrok
Think about that for a moment. Let's suppose that Germany had won...and then captured US scientists. Let's further suppose that we had managed to destroy any existing A-Bombs, and all notes on the matter. How long do you think it would take to again have a functioning A-Bomb? 50 years? Hardly...more like a year, tops.

Hitler was VERY quick to embrace new tech and rush it into service. With the war quickly going downhill, had he had some of these, they would have easily been sent to raise hell on the US mainland.


Fair enough. Guess i was wrong you're reasoning is un-deniable simple as that.


Thanks Gaz



posted on Dec, 23 2004 @ 10:38 AM
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Well, the possibility still exists...just pointing out the likelihood is all....and trying to show some other sides of the idea.



posted on Dec, 23 2004 @ 12:46 PM
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They only UFO's th Russians ever saw back then was the SR-71.



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