What is the REAL name of this temple??

So a little about myself I am Eritrean and speak Tigrinya/Tigrigna (spelling doesnt really bother me as the alphabet is different) and came upon this temple Via googling in the past and something struck me as odd.



This temple is known as Deir el-Bahari! its west of the Nile opposite of Luxor. LOL I may have found a blunder in history. Why is that? in my language "b-dihri bahari" means behind the river hahaha. So looking at this from luxor this would indeed be behind a river.

Knowing how Canada as a name came from a misujderstanding, I am assuming the same thing may have just happened here.

Upon further inspection and reading about the godland punt I noticed a reference to Eritrea but it referred to red skinned people! LOL. Why is that funny? because in Eritrean you have

Arab skin tone (tsaidah in tigrynia which means white),

dark brown people (tsaleem which means black)

and light brown skinned people, kinda golden brown like white bread crust color haha (keyhi which means, heres the kicker, Red!!). I am of the tsaleem variety haha so dont worry not tooting my horn. (Get it horn of africa, lol)

Anyways I am interested mostly in the naming of the temple/mortuary and if there is any other names for it including if the locals call it something else?

As for the keyhi- red skinned people I shall be asking my folks about that today, we are 0 generation Canadians so I dont have too many Eritreans too ask.


ETA: can anyone tell me about the validity of this book before I buy it? "Amarigna & Tigrigna Qal Hieroglyphs for Beginners: Perfect for Travelers to Egypt and Students of Ancient Gebts"

I'm confused...in your title, you ask a question to what the temple is called, yet you name the temple. I'm not sure of other names of the temple, not sure if there is another name for it.

I am very confused as well

Haha Sorry let me be more clear. I dont believe that deir el-bahari is the actual name.


Picture this you go to luxor Yet you cant speak to the locals because of a language gap so in the effort of using body language they try to describe the temple and the locals are like wtf? A local would then be like hey guys I think the foreigner is talking about the temple behind the river and point at it.

You would only understand the local pointing to the temple and saying deir el-bahari.

So now when you get lost you ask the people im looking for the temple deir el-bahari (behind the river) and the locals would laugh and point because you already sound like you know where it is.

If that confuses you just watch this video and switch canada out with deir el-bahari






ETA: So ATS does anyone know the actual name?

a reply to: birhan

from Wikipedia:

Deir el-Bahari or Dayr al-Bahri (Arabic: الدير البحري ad-dayr al-baḥrī, literally meaning, "The Northern Monastery") is a complex of mortuary temples and tombs located on the west bank of the Nile, opposite the city of Luxor, Egypt. This is a part of the Theban Necropolis.

Hatshepsut´s temple was named "Djeser-djeseru" ("holy of holies").

LINK
Yard where it is build is called as Lover of Silence or something like that.

a reply to: birhan

the area is known as that, but the building is actually called the mortuary temple of Hatshepsut
were you wanting the ancient egyptian spelling of it? cause most words we think are egyptian, are actually greek.

Babbling of the tongue. If a language is seperated from another one for a while the words change. Pa means something about a river not Ba. Fa or Pha has something to do with a hill. I think Ba means something like "Makes no sense" ....sheeptalk

Lepsius believes that the temple was originally connected with that of Karnak, since the axis of the prolonged dromos
would lead straight to the great temple of Amon. He was the first to discover the founder of the temple, which he still calls the temple of the Assassif. It was a queen, Numt Amen, eldest sister of Thothmes IIL, who devised this bold scheme for uniting the two sides of the Nile valley. She it was who erected before the temple of Karnak the two largest obelisks left to us.

Numt Amen are the two first words of the cartouche of Hatshepsu, and Lepsius had in truth recognised the name of the founder of the temple, although, as he had at once observed, the queen is never represented as a woman, but always in the dress of a man. Her sex is revealed by the inscriptions. " Doubtless it was contrary to the law of succession for a queen to occupy the throne, and this was the reason that her brother, probably still a minor, subsequently appears as sharing the throne along with her. After the queen's death her cartouches were replaced by those of Thuthmosis III., and her name was not admitted upon the lists of legitimate sovereigns.

source

The complex was known as 'the convent of the north' when the Coptic Christians took over the abandoned ruins.

Thanks everyone thats exactly what I am looking for.

The northern monastary Translation is something that I am on the fence about. When I do a google translate the arabic letterolettering seems off. Can anyone who can read arabic verify that. The part that is supposed to say monastary cause I could swaswear that its spelt differently. But thank you.

Djeser-djeseru is another awesome one that I am going to look into thank you sir! Seems like an adjective. Like hey thats birhan the lurkiest of lurkers catch my drift ? Will look into. The hebrews use that term for where they keep the arc of the covenant though. Thanks


And I would be interested in the egyptian spelling of the mortuary of Hatshepsut or if there is a different egyptian pronunciation I am down for that too. Agreed with the greeks tinkering with egyptian language its because they couldnt pronounce their words and thats key in phonetic languages. Thanks.


If there is more info Id be greatful if it was posted thanks everyone off to searching.

originally posted by: rickymouse
Babbling of the tongue. If a language is seperated from another one for a while the words change. Pa means something about a river not Ba. Fa or Pha has something to do with a hill. I think Ba means something like "Makes no sense" ....sheeptalk

Please explain more. Like how would you pronounce behind the river in that language, if you know by chance please do tell I dont understand what you mean by the babbling of the tongue, like did they mean dahir el- pahri?



Thanks aboutface will look into Lepsius. as for the Coptic Christians did THEY name it convent of the north. I cant see them using the word convent in those day it seems like a heavy christian word.

Thanks both of you though.




P.s. typing from tablet forgive my lack of capitalization on some words.

originally posted by: birhan

originally posted by: rickymouse
Babbling of the tongue. If a language is seperated from another one for a while the words change. Pa means something about a river not Ba. Fa or Pha has something to do with a hill. I think Ba means something like "Makes no sense" ....sheeptalk

Please explain more. Like how would you pronounce behind the river in that language, if you know by chance please do tell

I dont understand what you mean by the babbling of the tongue, like did they mean dahir el- pahri?



Thanks aboutface will look into Lepsius. as for the Coptic Christians did THEY name it convent of the north. I cant see them using the word convent in those day it seems like a heavy christian word.

Thanks both of you though.




P.s. typing from tablet forgive my lack of capitalization on some words.

I haven't yet come across anything like behind but I haven't researched all the sounds yet. Pa Ni actually sort of means a river mouth or fork in the river. It varies from language to language but the Pa is something to do with running water. It can also refer to running. It is hard to understand how the ancient languages work sometimes, a lot of things were like adverbs or pronouns. Names were a combination of multiple sounds related to the properties of what you were talking about. Like Ra was sort of like someone that looked over something, like a shepherd overlooking his sheep from a hill or the palace overlooking the kingdom from the hill or mountain. The builders of the pyramids could have been Ra. They were manmade hills or mountains. I studied this by reading hundreds of articles, some sort of conflicted and I had to look up a lot of definitions for these words translated from multiple languages. I may not be exactly right on some of them, I just wanted to try to understand the people back then. There are a few people who researched this half their life, I read some of their stuff.

You have to remember, my timeframe of research was way BC. Between two and five thousand BC and older. Even Hebrew took a big turn since then as did most other languages.

Yes, Temple of Hatshepsut.

a reply to: birhan

which words do you want egyptian for? the name of the area or the mortuary temple of hatshepsut?

Thanks rickymouse I am looking through that authors posts on hall of ma at from wayyyy back he claims they didnt use the word p but b instead but that would only get me to ba ni nor bahri yet how do you get the ni part? very very interesting, thanks.


Undo both would be awesome I am more interested in the area not the mortuary if I had to choose though, thsnks in advance.

Thanks joeraynor as well. Stick around cause I am going to figure this out if its the end of me haha.

ETA: off to easter supper be back later to eagerly check back in

just thought i'd put this out there first
apparently part of the problem could be related (depending how indepth your search is) by the fact, there wasn't just hieroglyphs or hieratic, but also an intermediary, which was used at the temple of hatshepsut in that time frame.
so this could pose a problem if you weren't encountering the same intermediary (which i don't know the name for yet. must have a name. all it says is the funerary texts were an intermediary. if that's a special use language, then might be useful to find the names in funerary text. how long have you been looking for this? p.s. i don't think the israelites were in egypt during akhenaten's timeframe, rather during the hyksos expulsion. )

intermediate between hieratic + hieroglyph

okay so i did this big long thing on hatshepsut's name in hieroglyphics and then accidentally closed the browser while surfing a page that had a bunch of pop up ads.

it's essentially something like
ra aset ka amun n khnem hat tut sheps female


i haven't the foggiest notion what i'm doing, but it's interesting!

originally posted by: undo
just thought i'd put this out there first
apparently part of the problem could be related (depending how indepth your search is) by the fact, there wasn't just hieroglyphs or hieratic, but also an intermediary, which was used at the temple of hatshepsut in that time frame.
so this could pose a problem if you weren't encountering the same intermediary (which i don't know the name for yet. must have a name. all it says is the funerary texts were an intermediary. if that's a special use language, then might be useful to find the names in funerary text. how long have you been looking for this? p.s. i don't think the israelites were in egypt during akhenaten's timeframe, rather during the hyksos expulsion. )

intermediate between hieratic + hieroglyph

based off the time frame and how close she was to thutmose III I would make the ASSUMPTION it was "Book of Praying to Re in the West, Praying to the United One in the West" but I will look more into it and see if I can find out for sure.

ETA: the amduat was in her tomb as well.

link

I am a big fan of using the terms and names the locals give to their places and themselves, much can be lost through second or third naming.
Take for Example the name of your ancestral land and or country..Eritrea it's a Greek word that correspond to Red, as in the "Red Sea"

See the Greco-Roman travel and trade guide The Periplus of the Erythraean Sea, while I have read that in the days before Kmt the "Black land" lost power the "Red sea" was called Km wer or the "Black sea", keep in mind there is nothing red or black about the sea itself.
In African American pop vernacular we made use of the term Red Bone a reference to lite skinned Black folks, but I came to understand that in Africa terms like that or similar ones are used among Africans themselves an excerpt from an ancient country man of yours .

INSCRIPTION OF EZANA, KING OF AXUM, c. 325

Through the might of the Lord of All I took the field against the Noba [Nubians] when the people of Noba revolted, when they boasted and "He will not cross over the Takkaze," said the Noba, when they did violence to the peoples Mangurto and Hasa and Barya, and the Black Noba waged war on the Red Noba and a second and a third time broke their oath and without consideration slew their neighbors and plundered our envoys and messengers whom I had sent to interrogate them, robbing them of their possessions and seizing their lances. When I sent again and they did not hear me, and reviled me, and made off, I took the field against them. And I armed myself with the power of the Lord of the Land and fought on the Takkaze at the ford of Kemalke. And thereupon they fled and stood not still, and I pursued the fugitives twenty-three days slaying them and capturing others and taking plunder from them, where I came; while prisoners and plunder were brought back by my own people who marched out; while I burnt their towns, those of masonry and those of straw, and seized their corn and their bronze and the dried meat and the images in their temples and destroyed the stocks of corn and cotton; and the enemy plunged into the river Seda, and many perished in the water, the number I know not, and as their vessels foundered a multitude of people, men and women were drowned.
www2.stetson.edu...

This is repeated on the other side of the continent with the Red and Black Ibos of the forest belt.

Sometimes misapplying names or use of foreign names or terms can rob you of insights take the name Wawat , while it was a name for one of the early Ta-Nahasian polity it is simply a Kemtian name for rebels, meaning they were to be seen as being part of the Kemtian polity but rejected it.
Nubia is perhaps one of the most misapplied terms in Egyptology, there were no such political or ethnic entity known to the ancient Kemtians it got it's name from the gold producing regions of Kmt..Nub meaning Gold so they were simply gold producers, the early polity that controlled that region was called Ta-Seti or land of the Bow, it was from them that the Kmtians borrowed their royal paraphernalia, upper Kmt itself may have been a breakaway state that scorpion and Narmer sacked, this is why Ta-Seti became the first Nome.

a reply to: Spider879

ooh that last bit is very interesting about nub being gold.


i was looking for the oldest egyptian map i could find. no luck yet