Should gay people fight for the right for anti-gay businesses to take their money or just boycott?

a reply to: arpgme

this type of discrimination is hypocritical for a nation that claims to believe in Liberty and Justice for all (which means ALL law-abiding citizens should be treated fairly/with justice and not discriminated against

That means that everyone is equal under the law, which has nothing to do with the right of a business owner to discriminate against group X or group Y.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: EternalSolace
Let's start suing churches for not hosting gay weddings. Let's start suing preachers for not performing gay weddings.

I mean, this is the next logical course of action... right?

Churches/preachers are not and never will be forced to marry anyone in America.

They turn people down all the time for various reasons, like divorce, age difference, or they just don't like them.

A public business is not a church.

Don't jump in until you know how deep it is.

www.charismanews.com...

a reply to: [post=19199622]Deaf Alien[/post

Anti-discriminatory law is the best we got. If only people would behave we wouldn't have this problem in the first place.

And on today's episode of Being Classically Authoritarian, ATS member Deaf Alien teaches us a valuable lesson in using the law to stop people from behaving the way we don't like.

I have a hard time distinguishing between the authoritarian left and the authoritarian right.

a reply to: EternalSolace

Let's start suing churches for not hosting gay weddings. Let's start suing preachers for not performing gay weddings.

A church is not a public business. You cannot force them to do things against their beliefs.

a reply to: Enochstask

Why would your article about the UK be pertinent to the subject in the United States?

Annee said:

Churches/preachers are not and never will be forced to marry anyone in America.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: nerbot
... why don't they just go somewhere else?

Three hours away? Not everyone lives in a large town or city, you know? There is exactly ONE bakery in my town.

Start your own bakery, or learn to bake on your own. Stop being Hitler.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Because our dopey Liberals get all of their dopey ideas from European socialist.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: EternalSolace
a reply to: Annee

It's okay for you to practice your religion until I come along and demand services that contradict your religious views. Screw your freedom! You will serve me while I wipe my bum with your religious convictions! Your only recourse is to close down your business while the government bankrupts you and destroys your life with fines.

/sarcasm /nowaronchristianity /tolerance


Disclaimer: You = Generic "You"

Secular government.

Your business is not a church. Keep it to yourself.

I don't see anywhere in my second post where I mentioned a church. And keep what to myself? Surely you don't mean my opinion...


I love how people think the hypocrisy with this tolerance nonsense is okay.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: nonspecific

Possibly so but would it be right to say that the Baker is wrong to refuse service based on personal belief?
It has to go both ways otherwise it does not work.

Allowing them to discriminate does not work. The best solution is anti-discriminatory law.

The best solution is, and will always be, defending the individual's right to choose. Not using the law to force assimilation into your borg-collective.

There is absolutely no difference between you and the extreme, religious people that want to legislate their morality, and force people to behave in a manner that they deem to be "moral."

Just like Christians want to use the law to deny two parties their natural right of being able to enter into a private contract (marriage), you want to use the law to force people into private contracts (business transactions).


Any business transaction that is not arrived at willfully is slavery.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: EternalSolace

Let's start suing churches for not hosting gay weddings. Let's start suing preachers for not performing gay weddings.

A church is not a public business. You cannot force them to do things against their beliefs.

Businesses are private, not public.

In California, ( according to Bill Handel form Handel on the Law - the funniest radio show I have ever heard ) you can fire someone for any reason. Or specifically you don't have to give a reason. He get's people ALL the time who want to sue for wrongful termination. For whatever discriminatory reason. But if they didn't say it's due to "suspected Polish descent"
YOU HAVE NO CASE.

And a business reserves the right to refuse service for any UNSPECIFIED reason. Like, they don't want to attend a gay wedding even as a caterer.

A smart businessman would say "we are too busy, my best pastry guy just left on his honeymoon with his life partner. etc"
Don't say it's against your religion. That works for some things, but not wedding cake. You are inviting a lawsuit & protests in this litigious society we live in. Unless the business is failing already and you need help from Glen Beck to provide a "walk away fund", just shut up, charge more or make an unrelated excuse. Or say NO, but I won't say why. They can't sue for that, just like the CA labor rule. You have the right to refuse service, but if you refuse in the wrong manner, they have the right to SUE.

If I am faced with a distasteful job, I CHARGE more. If it's so distasteful that I couldn't possibly charge enough, I refuse. I have not had to perform KP data recovery yet, so I mostly just charge more. But there were MANY that I could have refused, if I was the type of person to make a stink about such things I would have been within my rights to refuse.
Once I had to fix some guy's pc, he had gay porn taped to the wall, magazines all over the floor, I'm sure on the PC but I didn't look. It was a system board, changed it FAST and made him use the keyboard to test. But I didn't insult the guy, just worked fast& left. Some 30 years ago I worked for a contractor, who had an RFP from the MOONIES. So he sent the "I don't want the job" quote, and ended up with a Porche after it was all done.

I would much rather participate in some other topic, doom porn even, but this is all over the radio, everywhere. What I am against is making a stink, causing an expected stink, or sending money to some idiot who doesn't know how to run his business. You can refuse service, but there's a nice way to do it. Unless you have some agenda, be it financial, political, or religious. And we have had enough of that.

a reply to: LewsTherinThelamon

The best solution is, and will always be, defending the individual's right to choose. Not using the law to force assimilation into your borg-collective.

Ok so you want to go back to the 50's 60's? Will you risk that?

There is absolutely no difference between you and the extreme, religious people that want to legislate their morality, and force people to behave in a manner that they deem to be "moral."

Lol there's a difference. I want equality. They don't.

a reply to: LewsTherinThelamon

Stop pretending like people are forced to run a business and like the contract they sign with the state to run their business stating they cannot discriminate is forced. No one is forcing them to do anything but follow the laws set forth in the constitution. It's not slavery, they chose to run a business in the united states and in doing so also signed the papers stating they would uphold the constitution of the united states, which protects individuals from discrimination.

It's not slavery or closed to it, no one is being forced to do anything. If they don't want to follow the laws required in owning a business they can close their doors at any time.

a reply to: LewsTherinThelamon

Businesses are private, not public.

ROFLMAO!!!! Business are open to the public.

What does private business even mean? Do they hide in the woods hidden from the public?

originally posted by: Enochstask
a reply to: Grimpachi

Because our dopey Liberals get all of their dopey ideas from European socialist.

Well, don't get your knickers in a twist just yet because all that article shows is a couple of millionaires were able to challenge a government decision and law.

Unless you are upset that gay people can address the government you still do not have a leg to stand on from pointing to things across the pond.


If they win then you can start biting your nails but until then it is a non-issue for the US.

originally posted by: Enochstask

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: EternalSolace
Let's start suing churches for not hosting gay weddings. Let's start suing preachers for not performing gay weddings.

I mean, this is the next logical course of action... right?

Churches/preachers are not and never will be forced to marry anyone in America.

They turn people down all the time for various reasons, like divorce, age difference, or they just don't like them.

A public business is not a church.

Don't jump in until you know how deep it is.

www.charismanews.com...

That is in the UK.

a reply to: Grimpachi
Intelligent people see what's coming down the path.

a reply to: Enochstask

Intelligent people see what's coming down the path.

Intelligent people see that it will never happen.We have the Constitution. Remember?

a reply to: Deaf Alien

It was meant as hyperbole really. Something that another poster clearly has no grasp of. I have a very hard time taking this subject seriously because it is absurb to me. People don't like Christians forcing their viewpoints on others. But that's the exact same thing people expect a Christian to take by forcing them to go against their beliefs.

It's a double standard that's unbelievably obvious.


Now I'd like to expand on my suing the church comment. Where I was actually going with the whole church point, was that even though a church isn't a public business, it does provide public services. These services span from food banks, soup kitchens, to sometimes housing and etc. Could those public services open the door to liability when it comes to crossing the line of a "public business".

If a church has a fundraiser in which it bakes cakes, a gay couple requests to purchase one for their wedding, and are refused, are they liable as well?

In my opinion, it's a rabbit hole that's starting with individuals that don't have the financial resources to fight this in the nations highest courts.

originally posted by: Enochstask
a reply to: Grimpachi
Intelligent people see what's coming down the path.

And as you have just proven it doesn't take a genius to use a slippery slope fallacy.