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Two Hot Button Issues That Divide Us

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posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 06:03 PM
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As a Libertarian I am pro-freedom and personal liberty which means I am basically pro-choice on everything because I respect everyone's right to live their life the way they see fit. That being said I think there are two specific issues that divide our country more than any other and those are the right to abortion and gun rights.

In my opinion if the Republicans were to remove their opposition to a woman's right to choose they would run away with elections. I will say the same of Democrats. If they were willing to remove all opposition to gun rights they would run away with elections. These are the two most polarizing of the party positions in my opinion.

While I don't support abortion itself there is no way I would tell someone else what they can and can't do with their own body. Also, I consider the 2nd amendment one of the most important additions to the Constitution. There really is no debate. Gun rights are "not to be infringed" and really there is no good reason to prohibit private gun ownership.

So while I think both parties could basically guarantee there party elections for the next decade by changing these two particular anti-liberty positions; I don't believe it will ever happen. I don't think the powers that be wan't there to be agreement among people because they would find control of the population more difficult.

I don't really understand why either party is attached to anti-liberty positions. It doesn't make sense to tell people what they can and can't do...especially when it comes to the bill of rights and the right to control what happens with your own body.

What do the rest of you think? Could a change on either one of these hot-button issues change the political landscape? I truly believe it would.




posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 06:44 PM
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Both are non-issues to me. I want the party that will stand up to those who would exploit people and the environment for profit; to those who sell us out to the 1%.

👣



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 06:47 PM
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a reply to: Metallicus

I'll only say this on abortion.

You should have the right to do whatever you want to your own body.

But abortion includes another body. And sadly, that little body has no rights what so ever.



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 06:51 PM
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originally posted by: BlueMule
Both are non-issues to me. I want the party that will stand up to those who would exploit people and the environment for profit; to those who sell us out to the 1%.

👣


Same here!

The political arena is so filled with corruption and dirty money that parties, ideologies and elections are just strawmen to keep the rabble from addressing the real problems; that stem from the corruption and greed in the first place.
edit on 4-4-2015 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 06:56 PM
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a reply to: Metallicus

While I fully agree with your viewpoints on the two issues, I'm not sure a change on either one would change the political landscape as much as you think - MSM would find other "issues" to fill the void and keep the disharmony rolling, politicians on the far left and far right would be happy to play along.



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 06:59 PM
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Those two issues are not my top priority. I choose a candidate based upon what issues affect me, my family and the majority of Americans.



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 07:17 PM
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I do wish the democratic party would drop their anti-gun stance it would go a long ways to improving their standing. The abortion issue with the republican party isn't much of a deal breaker with me since precedent has been established already although their sneaky tactics on the issue has been troubling.

If the republican party embraced science on issues instead of ignoring or denying it I would probably join that party however that just might make them too much like Democrats.

It would be a one party system.



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 07:30 PM
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I don't think we even have gun rights anymore.

We have gun privileges.

We have to obtain permission from the central authority before we can bear arms.



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 07:41 PM
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originally posted by: BlueMule
Both are non-issues to me. I want the party that will stand up to those who would exploit people and the environment for profit; to those who sell us out to the 1%.

👣


I agree, these are non issues, or rather, they are not issues that involve the majority of Americans.
I want a party that is Pro American rather than Pro Globalist, selling out their citizens for a few more coins.

Show me a party that is going to boot out the special interests in DC and you have my back.



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 07:43 PM
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originally posted by: Gully
a reply to: Metallicus

While I fully agree with your viewpoints on the two issues, I'm not sure a change on either one would change the political landscape as much as you think - MSM would find other "issues" to fill the void and keep the disharmony rolling, politicians on the far left and far right would be happy to play along.



Yep. Neither side would have no problem in addressing these issues since it does not involve their masters backing them financially. They would still play the wrestling script for public consumption however.



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 07:51 PM
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originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: Metallicus

I'll only say this on abortion.

You should have the right to do whatever you want to your own body.

But abortion includes another body. And sadly, that little body has no rights what so ever.


Yeah i am with Beeze on this.
We have rights as long as they dont cause anyone harm
Same with guns, you have a right to own one unless you cause anyone harm that is not justified.



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 07:55 PM
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a reply to: borntowatch

It all comes down to infringement.

On abortion, the woman has a right to choose, IF her life is in jeopardy, simply because any law that denied it, would be an infringement on her rights.
But the rights of the unborn go completely ignored.
I know abortion is a touchy subject. But I could care less if someone is offended in this regard.

As for guns? It pisses me off to no end that we still claim to have 2nd Amendment rights when we don't.



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 07:57 PM
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originally posted by: beezzer
I don't think we even have gun rights anymore.

We have gun privileges.

We have to obtain permission from the central authority before we can bear arms.


So guns for everyone?

Illegals, Felons, rapists? etc?



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 08:01 PM
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originally posted by: muse7

originally posted by: beezzer
I don't think we even have gun rights anymore.

We have gun privileges.

We have to obtain permission from the central authority before we can bear arms.


So guns for everyone?

Illegals, Felons, rapists? etc?


Thanks for bringing that up.

Personally, if we were to truly allow gun rights, then I'd like to see death penalties for rapists,, and any felony that used a gun in the commission of a crime.

As for people who have been to jail?

I thought when they got out that they did their time.

After jail, why are they still punished?

They should be able to vote, own a gun, do everything a free man should be able to do.



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 08:02 PM
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a reply to: muse7

Oh, illegals?

They don't obey the law anyway.

laws are only for people who obey them.



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 08:11 PM
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originally posted by: beezzer

They should be able to vote, own a gun, do everything a free man should be able to do.


Sure, insofar as jail = rehabilitation.

But what if jail teaches criminals to be more efficient criminals. Well, in that case, your position is naive.

👣


edit on 104Saturday000000America/ChicagoApr000000SaturdayAmerica/Chicago by BlueMule because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 10:15 PM
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originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: Metallicus

I'll only say this on abortion.

You should have the right to do whatever you want to your own body.

But abortion includes another body. And sadly, that little body has no rights what so ever.


Beezer, I have always found the abortion issue hard to reconcile because in my opinion the unborn child is being murdered, however, I also think a person has 100% rights over their own body. Since I am a Libertarian I have to ere on the side of individual liberty and side with the pro-choice camp even though I am 100% against the actual procedure.

I don't actually consider the position of abortion when I am voting since it will never be a choice I need to make, but the gun rights issue is a deal breaker for me. If someone is in anyway anti-gun rights I won't vote for them. Fortunately, there are no anti-gun Libertarians.



posted on Apr, 5 2015 @ 01:07 AM
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originally posted by: Metallicus

Could a change on either one of these hot-button issues change the political landscape? I truly believe it would.


Are you assuming that the political parties want a change in the landscape? If one party became too dominant, then who could the people blame for legislation that no one wants? For instance, we can blame Democrats for Obamacare or Republicans for the Iraq War, but I think that it's pretty clear that both of those could have come from either side of the aisle.

When the Government really wants something done that the American people don't, the majority party supports it, the minority party opposes. The Government gets what it wants, the American people get the illusion of representation and a scapegoat. Eventually, the American People decide they are fed up and "vote the bums out." But it always seems the new party in power can never seem to undo the damage done by the previous "bums." Somehow, they can make things worse, though.

I think the Government doesn't really care about guns, as long as they are not being used against the Government. That being the case, there will be no major change in gun laws. Both sides can huff and puff, but the Government will allow guns where they are not a threat to Government, but restrict and confiscate wherever they feel necessary. Just as they do now.

Same goes for abortion. There will be no major changes. But that doesn't mean you won't hear more about these issues when it comes to election time. The narrative for the news media will be that the future of America depends on Democrats vs. Republicans. Maybe the narrative should be that the future of America depends on the Government vs. the People.



posted on Apr, 5 2015 @ 09:17 AM
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a reply to: Metallicus

I err on the side of the individual as well. That caveat being, I consider the unborn child an individual.

That being said, it is a far too difficult a topic to be decided in just a few posts.

All we can do is chronicle our freedoms lost.



posted on Apr, 5 2015 @ 09:57 AM
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Gun rights are a polarizing issue for Conservatives. I think the majority of liberals really don't care.

The Democrats controlled the White House and most of Congress for long enough to do whatever they wanted to guns and nothing was passed. The gun issue is dead and they know it. Sure, the old one-trick ponies will run their trap about guns once in awhile to satiate the handful of their constituents who actually give a damn but it's all lip-service. The gun lobby is powerful enough to influence politics and the anti-gun folks don't have any facts to support their claims.

Abortion will continue to be an issue for both sides thanks to a lack of scientific understanding and acceptance. The majority of the pro-life folks are religious and/or want to choose for someone else based on their own emotional hang-ups. Abortion should be welcomed in our society but certain people want to shame women into having unwanted children and portions of our culture are suffering as a result.




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