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UK General Election - My own dilemma...

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posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 09:57 AM
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a reply to: Soloprotocol

So we have a fake account, making absurd statements that can be created easily, in fact I wouldn't put it past someone like you to do a thing like that to smear UKIP.

And a porn star...So what?




posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 10:06 AM
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a reply to: bastion

OK, you provided that link, but if you actually read it there is no direct quote of him actually saying it - the Independent paraphrased to meet their own agenda.. What he does refer to is keeping an eye on what tax payers money is spent on in respect of public sector spending.

Whether you agree with where it's spent is up to you, that's a different issue. To then talk about 'the last 10 years' is very telling - who was in power for the first 5 of them? To call it conservative in all but name is nonsense - I'd agree the Blair years were more centre/right of centre than left, but you get what you vote for. To speak about the years directly after WW2 and to try and do any comparison is nonsense, by the same standards only a few years later MacMillan was saying 'We have never had it so good'.



posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 10:09 AM
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originally posted by: Boeing777
a reply to: uncommitted

As if UKIP are going to sort these bankers out hence why they haven't even mentioned them yet.


Hi, UKIP are kind of like the Greens in my eyes - a minority, although given a preference I guess I would have to choose the Greens although the Scottish candidate for them tested that opinion in the debate last night.... luckily for him the UKIP candidate on the panel had a shocking night.



posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 10:18 AM
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originally posted by: DAZ21
a reply to: Soloprotocol

So we have a fake account, making absurd statements that can be created easily, in fact I wouldn't put it past someone like you to do a thing like that to smear UKIP.

And a porn star...So what?


UKIP do a good enough job smearing themselves with the need for anyone else to interfere.



Within minutes, Cairns had disabled both his Facebook and Twitter accounts, but not before denying that his Facebook ever belonged to him. Despite it containing thousands of postings and photographs, he said it was a “fake account”, although conveniently it was then deactivated within a matter of minutes.


Conveniently deactivated within Minutes of him being exposed for the Fascist bigot he is.
edit on 9-4-2015 by Soloprotocol because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 10:24 AM
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ALL THOSE WHO ACCUSE THATCHER OF DESTROYING BRITISH INDUSTRY.

My van is a Transit. Bulit in Southampton UK just before they shipped out to Turkey. Where's your vehicle made?
My settee is British made in the west midlands. Yours?
My hifi is a mix of Linn and Arcam. British made. Yours?
The hifi rack is Apollo made in Brum UK. Yours?
My toaster is Dualit stainless steel. Made in Britain.
My kettle is Russel Hobs, 10 yrs old but one of the final British ones, when it gos there's a UK maker in Brum
I always buy New Balance trainers, yes some are made in the Lake District. British.........Yours?
My bed and mattress silent night. British made..........Yours?
Rucksack. Bergen, British
Docs and Hotter shoes they are great, yes made in Britain
Scissors Taylors eye Witness..........Made in Sheff.............Yours?
Cooker and fridge British............. Yours?
Car Toyota import from Japan Mr2 from the 90's, yes it's not a local one but as I used to work for toyota and they make great cars here in Derbyshire well I sor of think it's ok
TV, well the last TV factory closed down recently with Tosh going abroad, but at leats I tried so it's Samsung

Microwave British, made in Wales

By Sharp................ Yours?

Torch made in UK by Unilight

Blinds from John Lewis made in Britain, bedding made in Britain by dorma......... British?

My laptop...well it's made in Ireland by Michael Dell, so it sort of counts, but anyway Sir Clive Sinclair is launching his new computer soon and I will be having one because it's being made in Nottingham.............. British

To all those who moan about the decline of British industry and blame it on Thatcher, check out your belongings and see if you are doing your bit and putting your money where your mouth is



posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 10:36 AM
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a reply to: uncommitted

Ever other news site reported it as Cameron announcing permanent austerity, however I didn't want to link to the Mail and being a massive lefty, linking to the grauniad wouldn't have been wise. However, I should have posted the raw uneditted copy from here instead of a newspapers spin on things - www.gov.uk...

'Already we have cut the deficit by a third. And we are sticking to the task. But that doesn’t just mean making difficult decisions on public spending.

It also means something more profound. It means building a leaner, more efficient state.

We need to do more with less. Not just now, but permanently. '


While his actual words were 'reduce public spending' everyone knows that reducing public spending is austerity by a different name. Likewse everyone knows that public spending is to provide the essemtial services the poorer areas of society can't afford for themselves with the lions share of the tax money coming from the mega-rich. Unsurprisingly Cameron is dead against this, and sadly Labour aren't much better.

In the speech he said that austerity would continue under them if they win this years election.

I don't really see why calling New Labour Tories in all but name is wrong when New Labour follow Thatcherite politics, are like you say arecentre, centre-right (which in my opinion makes them tories instead off old Labour.
edit on 9-4-2015 by bastion because: (no reason given)

edit on 9-4-2015 by bastion because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 10:47 AM
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originally posted by: bastion
a reply to: uncommitted

Ever other news site reported it as Cameron announcing permanent austerity, however I didn't want to link to the Mail and being a massive lefty, linking to the grauniad wouldn't have been wise. While his actual words were 'reduce public spending' everyone knows that reducing public spending is austerity by a different name. Likewse everyone knows that public spending is to provide the essemtial services the poorer areas of society can't afford for themselves with the lions share of the tax money coming from the mega-rich. Unsurprisingly Cameron is dead against this, and sadly Labour aren't much better.

In the speech he said that austerity would continue under them if they win this years election.

I don't really see why calling New Labour Tories in all but name is wrong when New Labour follow Thatcherite politics, are like you say arecentre, centre-right (which in my opinion makes them tories instead off old Labour.


Fair do's but you know as I do that whatever a public figure says is then paraphrased to make it meet the agenda of the publication. Whether or not the Tories or Labour really want to keep the poorer areas of society without money is an opinion - but naming Cameron directly but not Milliband kind of shows your thinking.

I personally don't think there has been an old labour for decades - in fact there probably never was and the likes of Bevin were personalities with their opinion of what labour should be. Certainly if you look back to the '70's and '80's it's easy to say they were for the working class...... but was that through some ideal, or because they were bankrolled by the unions?

ETA - I don't think doing more with less is a bad thing, in fact I agree with that if the opposite as it was for 13 years of labour was doing less with more.
edit on 9-4-2015 by uncommitted because: As per ETA



posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 11:02 AM
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a reply to: Soloprotocol

Well you can't be one to judge, you want to nuke the majority of the population on earth to death...



posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 11:13 AM
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a reply to: uncommitted

Agreed and as an ex journalist I have no excuse for not providing the original source instead of a news article. It certainly reveals my anti-tory bias but I don't think Milliband would really lift a finger to overhaul the system and even if he was willing to, he's too weak to take on the banks.

Both parties used to have clear political visions of what a country should and shouldn't be doing - now all parties have lost faith in that as their power and influence has erroded and instead cry 'immigration, 'terrorism', 'russia/trident' or whatever the scapegoat buzzword of the day is to make it seem as if they still have a purpose. It's very true on the trade union funding front, but personally I'd rather have a party funded by people generally wanting workers rights instead of bankrolled by those who want to crush them, which is where the main four are funded currently.

Agreed that some efficiancy savings have to be made but the mass redundancies in education, privatizing universities and hospitals and removing respite care for disabled children are things he should be disgusted by instead of proud of. There's a huge difference between getting rid of non-jobs that labour created and shutting places down then expecting the 'big society' to provide essential services for free.

For example all the local youth centres got closed down here and handed over to the 'big society' - no one but politicians were surprised when the local crime gangs starting running the places to stash guns, drugs and money and used them as a base to train and send out kids as couriers for various weapons or drugs. Something that cost £125,000 a year is now busy building up a bill of several million in damaged communities, crime, policing and prison costs so costs us far more in that particular instance.
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posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 11:56 AM
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a reply to: DAZ21

You want the establishment out? You do realise that Farage is still part of that establishment?

I was mildly leaning towards UKIP at one point, but the moment i read about the below article, my leaning went in the opposite direction.


At an impromptu meeting last week, Farage and the News Corp boss discussed Clacton MP Douglas Carswell's dramatic switch. Farage, who first met Murdoch in 2013 at a dinner in the magnate's flat, told the Observer that he was delighted to have been asked to "meet the boss" again. He refused to be drawn, however, on whether Murdoch had suggested he could swing his media might behind the party.

Farage, said: "It wasn't planned but I was asked to meet the boss - we have met before - and I was happy to oblige. This is an 83-year-old guy whose finger is firmly on the pulse of what is happening in British and world politics. He was generally interested in hearing about the Carswell story, but beyond that I am going to have to disappoint you. It was a private conversation. We had a good chat."

The meeting took place after Farage had finished recording an appearance on Fox's Sean Hannity and Neil Cavuto shows at News Corp's building in Manhattan. During an ad break, Cavuto said to Farage, "Sir… The boss wants to see you. The big boss."


The Guardian

This was round about the time that there was a dramatic shift in MSM reporting regarding discrediting him and his party. It all seemed to stop and the media were pretty much fawning over him.

Although it seems to be ramping up a bit again now, it's not nearly as bad as it was before his "impromptu" meeting with Murdoch.

Coincedence eh?

UKIP *Sponsered by Murdoch*


edit on 9-4-2015 by skitzspiricy because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 12:37 PM
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a reply to: skitzspiricy

That could mean anything though couldn't it...

He had a chat with Murdoch, I think I would too if I was the but of everyone's jokes and continually targeted for being the boogey man.

Maybe Murdoch, after having this private conversation, which we can only speculate on what was said anyway, Murdoch felt sympathetic towards UKIP's cause. The fact is, we don't know, and to base not voting for a party because they had a 'conversation' is a bit silly.

To be honest, I don't think any tabloid or news outlet is going easy on UKIP I think they're using the fear factor in any titles for news stories containing UKIP to scaremonger people into believing what they want them to.

To even consider voting for Labour after the state that they left us in and especially since Blair has started sticking his beak in again. How anyone can trust that man makes me a bit sick. A man that got himself rich off of screwing the rest of us and doesn't trust us to make the right decision on Europe so doesn't want us to have one.

Labour stand in the face of democracy, and conservatives are liars and as Red as Ed camouflaged in blue ties...

So who else do we have to vote for? If Farage is the establishment, well..at least I can say I tried to vote for change...



posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 01:54 PM
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a reply to: DAZ21

Do you mind me asking if it's more a return to the old pre-Thatcher traditional values of the Tory party that you're after? As if so then UKIP are the party to vote for, for that ( I completely disagree with that type of politics personally but we live in a democracy where everyone gets a vote and a say so my opinions matter not) as, I imagine you well know, the tory party have become right-centrist where pure capitalism and finance is perfectly fine bu laying down actual policy Europe or immigration is off the books for them as they're still trying to 'modernise'.

[I'm asking the above out of genuine personal interest as your posts clearly demonstrate you're intelligent, capable of independent thinking and analysis and know your politcs - which is something I haven't personally come across from people who are thinking of voting for them yet - so any imput would be beneficial to me but fair play if you see it as too personal or don't want to answer for whatever reason]

As much as I personally hate UKIP and Farage, they do strike me as a Party that actually would honor their manifesto pledges, unlike the main three. They've only got two seats and have undeniaably altered the political landscape in the UK, they've certainly had more impact than the Greens and completely overwhelmed the Lib Dems who have completely failed to do a single thing while supposedly being in a coalition and completely sold out the ideology of the Lib Dems by increasing tuition fees and supporting austerity. As much as I hate UKIP, there's no point me trying to deny the fact that they know how to get a debate going.

I don't see Farage meeting Murdoch as indication he's part of the establishment as all major party leaders meet him (Murdoch's son has announced he'll be supporting and voting for the Greens for instance who are as antii old etonian as you can get). It's impossible to make an impression in politics without having him on side and as far as I'm aware it's not as if he went to the private boat parties he holds that tories and labour usually go to. While UKIP receive far more coverage than their vote perccentage would indicate is representative, I honestly can't think of a single story that has painted them in a positive light (except for maybe the express). Nearly all coverage has been exposing loonies, lies or complete non-stories like him meeting some kid from a tv show.

The proof he's part of the establishment s in his old career as a hedge fund manager for steel companies in The City and his party being financed from the old school tory party defectors.
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posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 02:31 PM
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UKIP Candidate sorry for HIV Tweet

More from the Scum of the Earth party ..
edit on 9-4-2015 by Soloprotocol because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 03:20 PM
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a reply to: bastion

Well, being more conservative, if that is what you say they are, then I suppose that is what I am.

UKIP speaks to me in so many ways, I agree with most of the policies and there isn't much to turn me away from the party.

I mean, from immigration, the EU, Education, welfare, defence, energy, agriculture and fishing, housing, culture and actual democracy.

The policies UKIP have on these issues, I agree with, I know others may not...Maybe I'm a fool, but if what they say is possible, then they are the party for me, regardless of the establishment digging out the bad members of the party, because these horrid people exist in all major parties. How many paedophiles, thieves, and racists have been found or are kept under wraps in the establishment?

Maybe you can ask me why I like the individual policies above, and you can then give me your opinion, and if you're right and can sway me then so be it. I do listen and if others can show me why I'm wrong and how they're right, then I will admit that I was wrong.

But pro-SNP supporters who spew hatred, contradict themselves and chuck out political propaganda against one party in particular, do my head in.

If people in Scotland are allowed a new party to trump the establishment, then the people of England deserve their party of change too. The thing is, they don't realise how dangerous the SNP really are. They're already talking about a second referendum, if they can't get that then they will destroy the union from the inside out just to spite us and leave us with no other choice.

Mark my words if we end up with a Labour - SNP coalition we're all doomed, and no I don't think that is an overstatement.
edit on 9-4-2015 by DAZ21 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 10:07 PM
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a reply to: DAZ21

Fair play and in a way glad to hear it.

I'll try and think of some questions in the morning as while I may disagree with you on core values, you're obviously someone who has made an informed decision that you feel is right for you which I have utmost respect for, as opposed to people who vote on family lines or don't vote at all, who I have zero respect for.

From my perspective - while I may disagree with your views, having a right and left wing, instead of the lib/lab/con race to the centre is absolutely vital to maintaining democracy and evolution of politics. If the race to the centre continues you could split a hair between the main threes policies (you arguably can do already) which in effect means no choice for the electorate, thus no democracy.

So far in the election, both Labour and Conservatives have been employing the US tactic of sifting through old material to see if any statements disagree with ones made years earlier. This is something myself and a few other disenfranchised journalists nickname the 'static state' as in effect it means that parties can no longer introduce new ideas and are limited to regurgitating old ideas as anything that goes against the status quo is seen as taboo (i.e loony left, racist right argument). Once this framework is employed, the state will not change regardless of who is elected as announcing new ideas would be frowned upon, which again is anti-democratic and traps us in a system everyone knows is broken.

In my personal view both capitalism and communism have completely failed and what is needed is a new kind of politics, what the answer is I have no idea, but I know for a fact it's impossible to generate new ideas if every party is trying the hardest to be like every other party so I will choose my questions wisely.

edit on 9-4-2015 by bastion because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 10:26 PM
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a reply to: ufoorbhunter




I always buy New Balance trainers, yes some are made in the Lake District. British.........Yours?


Not quite the lake district, the factory is in Workington (or Flimby/Maryport...depends who you ask, it's actually within the boundaries of Workington, but has a Maryport address) which is West Cumbria.....

edit on 9/4/15 by woogleuk because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 10 2015 @ 06:28 AM
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Cheers Woogle for the info, not been up to the factory but would like to do so. Been buying New Balance for quite a few years now as they are (have to keep an eye on the tongue as they do imprt too) made in Britain plus are extremely good to wear.

I just couldn't help doing that list as I was being criticised for supporting Maggie in the 80's by people who moan about her industrial policy while most probably wearing trainers made in China and Vietnam



a reply to: woogleuk



posted on Apr, 10 2015 @ 12:03 PM
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a reply to: ufoorbhunter

I live just down the road from it, maybe a mile, two tops.

Kangol used to have their main factory in West Cumbria too, a couple in fact...one in Cleator and one in Frizington. Sadly that is no longer the case as their products are now made in the USA and Eastern Europe.

Quite a few jobs were lost, but they did keep the Cleator building open as a warehouse.



posted on Apr, 10 2015 @ 02:27 PM
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originally posted by: woogleuk
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

I live just down the road from it, maybe a mile, two tops.

[quote]

Wow that is so ace
Tell me something (only because you live near the factory), do you wear UK made New Balance? If so do they have a factory shop at the site?

I had a Kangol in the late 80's when I was the fourth member of the Beastie Boys
Or so it felt at the time. Never realised that the factories were in the north west. Looks like there's a fair bit of manufacturing going on up there, was just aware of the New Balance trainers and Bae nuke submarines



posted on Apr, 10 2015 @ 02:51 PM
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originally posted by: DAZ21
a reply to: bastion


Mark my words if we end up with a Labour - SNP coalition we're all doomed, and no I don't think that is an overstatement.

Pass me my brown trousers please.



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