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Do most American Conservatives actually hate America? I'm convinced they do.

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posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 07:48 PM
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double post screwed up
edit on 4-4-2015 by enlightenedservant because: double post screwed up




posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 07:53 PM
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originally posted by: burdman30ott6
If you love someone, then you accept them as they are rather than loving them with the hopes to change them... Which party is it that usually runs on a platform of change and fundamental transformation of America, again?

I'd argue that the progressive attitude towards America, always focusing on "what they want America to be" rather than the Conservative focus of "What America has always been and what America was supposed to be per the Constitution" is a pretty clear indicator that this OP is fatally flawed at best.


You mean like the 14th Amendment & its guarantee of equality for all Americans?



Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


Who are the ones doing voter suppression and denying LGBT Americans equal rights?

And if you're talking about the Constitution, the founders made it flexible so that it could be changed in the future. That's the whole reason there's a process for Constitutional Amendments.



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 07:54 PM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

Hardly. You're insinuating that since conservatives aren't "against" neo-Nazis they must support them.

Shall we engage in the urination contest and throw out some left-wing "activist" groups?

My point remains the same, through all my posts: liberals are the flip side of the same coin. You want to paint conservatives as hating America because they do w, x, y, and z. Meanwhile, liberals are doing a, b, c, and z.

But that's different. And pointing it out is "deflecting."



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 07:55 PM
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originally posted by: neo96
Even more curious how the liberals just never seem to have anything nice to say about Israel( see the thousands of threads of ATS)

Even more curious the KKK was created by the LEFT.

But the 'right' hates them.

I seem to recall the current administration funding the opposition to Netanyahu just recently.

Conservatives are always the bad guys because the left never looks at the mirror or opens up a history book.


The KKK however ignorant, misguided, and bigoted they are, are Americans. They have the right to free speech and the right to voice their opinion. Israel is a sovereign nation and has international codes of conduct they can choose to adhere to or not. One is defending the rights of unpopular Americans while the other is criticizing another nation for their choices. Know who liberals don't often attack? American jews.
edit on 4-4-2015 by Aazadan because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 07:56 PM
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originally posted by: Shamrock6
Oh no they totally did. 1978, a Chicago suburb. They challenged a ruling on behalf of a neo-nazi group that had barred them from holding a March. I was piggybacking on your "so?" comment.

So conservatives don't attack neo-nazi groups, and liberals defend them. Yet conservatives are the bad guys.

Curious, that.


Rights only matter when they can protect the unpopular. The popular rarely need extra protections.



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 07:58 PM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

1:When progressives DEMAND BY LAW,their sensitivites be adressed to a point of DYSFUNCTIONALITY and attempt to achive a false social paradigm, resistance OF ANY kind is BLOWN up into HATE,every time a counter is spoken of.
Your opininion isn't accurate.
2:When said Govt VIOLATES constitution EDICTS as greviously as the current admin ,forments WAR by such Epic imcompetance , turns away our allies and gets our troops KILLED by micromanaging wars with ignorant ROEs they are EXTEMELY lucky they aren't in Russia where shooting them is a nominal form of response to such insanity. WE AIN'T Europe and never will be,get over it.
3:Not me ,I love our land,YOU mean INDUSTRY which is ANOTHER issue BEYOND the average man.
My father lost friends to Nazis YOU ARE not making any sense here,I regulary scoff and insult such creatures at will when EVER they espouse such S##T.
4:I expect you to debate ALA alynsky and will call you on it in which case YOU will usually fall to hate in your responses. WHAT SOUNDS like "HATE" to you is sometimes just direct speech.

THE P.C. garbage I am at war with is QUITE obvious and I will continue to battle the attempts to divide my country by using as many facts and history as I can.
They also don't like my gun collection.
If in fact if I TRULLY expressed TRUE hate it involves DEATH ,what you READ is anger but ...perhaps are a bit ,SENSATIVE to to common debate and straight talk.
REGRESSIVE ...THAT is interesting...



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 07:58 PM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant




The KKK was started by former Confederate soldiers right after the Civil War. unless you're telling me the Confederates were Left wing.


Well yeah considering Lincoln was a Republican, and the LEFT Wingers didn't like that too much.

I did a thread on here about the farce of the civil war.

It is amazing how anyone thinks the left stands for equality, when they consistently argue supremacy of the state.

When that ideology is the anti thesis of equality.

Come on WE ARE ALL SLAVES to the state.

That is what the civil war ensured.




And what does Israel have to do with the US? There's nothing in the US Constitution that says anything about Israel, much less that Americans should support Israel.


Fair game was someone was throwing the word 'neo nazi's' around so much.
edit on 4-4-2015 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 08:00 PM
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a reply to: Aazadan




The KKK however ignorant, misguided, and bigoted they are, are Americans.


So what about that BIGOTRY for bankers,rich,gun owners, ceo's, christian's,jews, and wait for it....

CONSERVATIVES ?

Oh my bad only the LEFT is allowed to be bigots.



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 08:04 PM
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originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Shamrock6
Oh no they totally did. 1978, a Chicago suburb. They challenged a ruling on behalf of a neo-nazi group that had barred them from holding a March. I was piggybacking on your "so?" comment.

So conservatives don't attack neo-nazi groups, and liberals defend them. Yet conservatives are the bad guys.

Curious, that.


Rights only matter when they can protect the unpopular. The popular rarely need extra protections.


Yea, the popular kids don't need somebody to stick up for them.

Except that's not remotely the point. The point was made that there are right wing extremists. And that somehow conservatives "openly support" them. Which makes conservatives bad.

Meanwhile, liberals openly defend the same groups, and that makes them good.
edit on 4-4-2015 by Shamrock6 because: Typo



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 08:06 PM
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originally posted by: enlightenedservant
You mean like the 14th Amendment & its guarantee of equality for all Americans?

No, I mean your entire premise in the OP is crap. You're making claims with zero substantiation whatsoever. Demonstrate with some manner of facts that Conservatives hate the groups you listed.



Who are the ones doing voter suppression and denying LGBT Americans equal rights?

And if you're talking about the Constitution, the founders made it flexible so that it could be changed in the future. That's the whole reason there's a process for Constitutional Amendments.


Oh, LGBTs are being denied the vote? I hadn't heard about this! Sources, please.

And no, I'm talking about everything spewing from the mouths of the nation's Obamas and Pelosis is regarding fundamentally changing America. Hell, it's the cornerstone of the meaning behind "progressive."



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 08:07 PM
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This should be an interesting thread (cough, cough...). Brace yourself for the onslaught, enlightenedservant. We ain’t had us a good lynchin’ around these parts in awhile, but today looks like a right purdy day fur one. Soon as the boys round up a proper crowd and a good, stout lasso, they’ll open up a big ol’ can o’ Whoopass and come back here fur a visit.

To begin with, IMHO the 4 points you address are valid and have merit. They seem like very straightforward, basic and honest questions. I’ve considered the same questions many times. Unfortunately, I doubt you’ll get many cool-headed, rational responses from the ones you’re addressing the questions to. Many on the “conservative” side of the fence will immediately become defensive and take your inquiries as a personal affront. There are a few thoughtful, intelligent conservatives still around who may attempt to address your concerns, but I’m afraid their number is dwindling as the Republican party is becoming increasingly radicalized.

I know I’m not the only one who’s sensed this, but the Republican Party today is not the same as the one 15-20 years ago. For cryin’ out loud, wasn’t it on Richard Nixon’s watch that the EPA was created? Now they want to do away with it. Maybe their boss, the Koch Bros., has something to do with it. I think big money and corporate interests have poisoned the political waters at all levels, from local to state to federal. Our political “leaders” have been seduced by the lure of wealth and status into appeasing their greedy, power-hungry, elite masters. The Democrats aren’t immuned to this, but I think the Republicans have truly mastered the art. I realize these influences have been around forever, but it seems that we’ve finally crossed the line where corporate interests have trumped the best interests of the people, and America has now become slave to the demands of corporate rule. Our “elected leaders” today are openly greedy, self-serving, sociopathic SOB’s lacking in compassion or empathy for the hungry, struggling people they supposedly serve. They serve the banks, the corporations, the high crime syndicates and the slumlords who now own America lock, stock and barrel; the rest of us can go to Hell. Isn’t this exactly what the American Revolution was all about? Didn’t we rebel against England because corporate interests had pretty much overtaken the British Parliament, jeopardizing the welfare of the people?

Our lives, and the state of our union, could be booming right now if not for the lunatics running the country. There are so many positive things that could be done right now to move our nation forward and provide a decent standard of living for it’s citizens, but the buffoons in charge are so busy tearing the government down there’s little time left to do the other things. Instead they choose to spend our resources fighting pointless wars, creating mindless Congressional lynchmob committees to destroy the careers and character of those with whom they disagree (at the taxpayer’s expense, of course), having pissing contests that jeopardize the good faith and credit rating of this country, shutting the government down for no good reason, blocking legislation that would create millions of jobs and repair the infrastructure, sabotaging our own government’s foreign policy and diplomatic efforts, taking some little old lady’s Meals-on-Wheels away from her to finance another tax loophole for the rich, going on yet another extended recess, etc., etc., etc.

Considering it all, it’s impossible for me to understand how these unpatriotic, traitorous political hacks/mobsters have so thoroughly brainwashed the public and enjoy the support they do while so passionately screwing it at the same time. Have we Americans become so dumbed-down, complacent and lacking in principle and good judgement that we actually believe half the crap they’re shoving down our throats? It would seem so. It’s just too bad so many innocent people suffer as a consequence.

Regarding your questions, enlightenedservant, I don’t know that it’s a matter of conservatives hating America so much as it is loving Exxon-Mobil. As far as America goes, they just don't give a sh-t. Either way, though, it sucks...

Good thread!


edit on 4/4/2015 by netbound because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 08:16 PM
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originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Hardly. You're insinuating that since conservatives aren't "against" neo-Nazis they must support them.

Shall we engage in the urination contest and throw out some left-wing "activist" groups?

My point remains the same, through all my posts: liberals are the flip side of the same coin. You want to paint conservatives as hating America because they do w, x, y, and z. Meanwhile, liberals are doing a, b, c, and z.

But that's different. And pointing it out is "deflecting."


No it's deflecting because you didn't address the points I made. Do you think many conservatives are against the different groups of Americans I mentioned in #1? Do you think most conservatives are against the US Fed govt and follow Reagan's words of "government's not the solution to the problem, government is the problem"? Do you agree that conservatives usually fight against environmentalists, who are trying to protect America's natural landscapes? And do you think many conservatives act extra patriotic but have no problems with conservatives who are neo-Nazis or are pro-Confederacy (you know, groups that actually fought against America)?

Those are my points & those are my questions. So are you going to actually answer them or keep dodging them by deflecting?



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 08:22 PM
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a reply to: netbound

Oh I'm not worried about lynchings. Though I'm sure you were joking, people would find out very quickly that many progressives have no problems with self defense, whatever that may entail.

And I'm not actually a Democrat. That's the funny part. I'm progressive & voted for Nader lol. I supported Pres Obama in 2008 but he betrayed every klgjlkfjlkfjlkjf!!! progressive policy we expected him to support. 2012 and onward I've pushed for indie groups & 3rd parties since neither main party cares about the people anyway.



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 08:33 PM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant
Sounds like we're pretty much in the same boat as far as political party affiliations go. I've got gripes with both main parties, as well. But the Republican Party stands out to me for their callous disregard for the struggle of the "common man", etc. Totally ruthless and without a sign of compassion. Money, money, money...

Even if that lynching doesn't take place today, keeping an eye over the shoulder still might be advisable. You never know...



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 08:37 PM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

So it's deflecting because I haven't answered you in the manner you wish to be answered? I had the audacity to answer how I wanted to, and not how you wanted to be?

How very progressive and liberal of you to be upset and accuse me of deflecting because I'm not doing what you want me to do.



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 08:44 PM
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For the record, before this becomes a complete partisan pissy-hissy fest, I'm not suggesting that destruction of America or hatred of America is a progressive tenant. I am, however, suggesting that anyone who supports the progressive ideologies of America must constantly be changed, including but not limited to restricting previously enumerated rights because "times change", has no business pointing at Conservatives and claiming they exhibit a hatred for America.

As to the "selfish Conservatives" business, I'll happily say I'm guilty as sin... but it isn't because I'm a Conservative. I'm an objectivist Libertarian, so of course the first question I'm going to ask is "how does this benefit me and my family?" If the answer is "it doesn't" then I'm not going to support the policy... if the answer is "Not only does it not benefit me and my own, it actually costs us something" then I will aggressively fight against the policy. THAT is what I see when I look at DC right now. I see a bunch of policies that cost me money, time, opportunity, and trust.

Hell, I'll take your OP comments one by one...
1. I don't hate anyone particularly. Exasperation at being called evil and being expected to take the blame along with the responsibility to coddle some of the groups you listed by *some* progressives is an expectation I hate and refuse to accept. I also expect our laws to be followed, including not allowing swarms of illegals to cross into America unfettered. If everyone acted like the were equal, instead of waltzing around like I owe them something, we'd be cool.
2. Do I "hate" the federal government? Yep, sure do. I do not root for them to shut down, I root for them to evaporate, eliminating the gigantic cluster*intimate relations* that has formed in DC so that people who actually want to support what the country was built on can move in and the adults can have a chance to run the nation for awhile.
3. Wanting a balance between conservation and production is by no means "hate." There currently is no balance. One side wants zero growth and zero development, which doesn't pay the bills and the other side wants carte blanche permission to rape the lands... meanwhile the average American is stuck in the middle suffering from the restrictions to growth while scratching their heads over which propaganda to believe.
4. Asinine statement and equally asinine assumptions of the OP do not warrant a serious response.



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 08:53 PM
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originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
You mean like the 14th Amendment & its guarantee of equality for all Americans?

No, I mean your entire premise in the OP is crap. You're making claims with zero substantiation whatsoever. Demonstrate with some manner of facts that Conservatives hate the groups you listed.



Who are the ones doing voter suppression and denying LGBT Americans equal rights?

And if you're talking about the Constitution, the founders made it flexible so that it could be changed in the future. That's the whole reason there's a process for Constitutional Amendments.


Oh, LGBTs are being denied the vote? I hadn't heard about this! Sources, please.

And no, I'm talking about everything spewing from the mouths of the nation's Obamas and Pelosis is regarding fundamentally changing America. Hell, it's the cornerstone of the meaning behind "progressive."


Don't twist my words. "And" means "also". I said:


Who are the ones doing voter suppression and denying LGBT Americans equal rights?

So that's 2 separate things. 1. voter suppression and 2. denying LGBT Americans equal rights. Now who's the one trying to stop gay marriage? Can't heterosexuals marry? So who's the one denying LGBT Americans equal rights?

And don't act like you don't know what I'm talking about. Here's Lee Atwater, the conservative hero & co-founder of the "Southern Strategy":


Hmmm, do any of his arguments sound familiar? And here's a link that includes the full 42min audio clip:
www.thenation.com...

Though I actually hope you don't agree with him. Schools don't exactly show this stuff so it's highly possible many people here haven't even heard it before.



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 08:53 PM
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originally posted by: Shamrock6

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: Greathouse
a reply to: enlightenedservant

You repeatedly use the word hate among other adjectives to describe your opinion of conservative views. Actually your post read a lot like a poison pen letter. While you did not specifically say you hated conservatives your statement more than implied that.


While it may be an accurate assesment of this single thread; I have found that the word 'hate' comes out of the mouths of regressives more often then progressive. In fact, I believe the newly coined noun 'hater' originated with regressive sources.


What is believed to be the first known usage of the term "hater" comes from the 2001 song "Playas Gon' Play" by the all female group 3LW. So I don't think that's 100% accurate. In pop culture anyway.


Excellent - thank you.



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 09:07 PM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

Two words: Robert Byrd



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 09:14 PM
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originally posted by: burdman30ott6
For the record, before this becomes a complete partisan pissy-hissy fest, I'm not suggesting that destruction of America or hatred of America is a progressive tenant. I am, however, suggesting that anyone who supports the progressive ideologies of America must constantly be changed, including but not limited to restricting previously enumerated rights because "times change", has no business pointing at Conservatives and claiming they exhibit a hatred for America.

As to the "selfish Conservatives" business, I'll happily say I'm guilty as sin... but it isn't because I'm a Conservative. I'm an objectivist Libertarian, so of course the first question I'm going to ask is "how does this benefit me and my family?" If the answer is "it doesn't" then I'm not going to support the policy... if the answer is "Not only does it not benefit me and my own, it actually costs us something" then I will aggressively fight against the policy. THAT is what I see when I look at DC right now. I see a bunch of policies that cost me money, time, opportunity, and trust.

Hell, I'll take your OP comments one by one...
1. I don't hate anyone particularly. Exasperation at being called evil and being expected to take the blame along with the responsibility to coddle some of the groups you listed by *some* progressives is an expectation I hate and refuse to accept. I also expect our laws to be followed, including not allowing swarms of illegals to cross into America unfettered. If everyone acted like the were equal, instead of waltzing around like I owe them something, we'd be cool.
2. Do I "hate" the federal government? Yep, sure do. I do not root for them to shut down, I root for them to evaporate, eliminating the gigantic cluster*intimate relations* that has formed in DC so that people who actually want to support what the country was built on can move in and the adults can have a chance to run the nation for awhile.
3. Wanting a balance between conservation and production is by no means "hate." There currently is no balance. One side wants zero growth and zero development, which doesn't pay the bills and the other side wants carte blanche permission to rape the lands... meanwhile the average American is stuck in the middle suffering from the restrictions to growth while scratching their heads over which propaganda to believe.
4. Asinine statement and equally asinine assumptions of the OP do not warrant a serious response.


For the record, I'm not a Democrat. I'm a progressive & I mostly fight for equal rights, environmentalism, and green technology. And as I've listed in one of my earlier replies, I usually vote Green party or for any 3rd party that acts like it'll actually help Americans. Just to be clear on that.

Also, I've found that many "conservatives" have no problems with change either. In fact, if we're going by the technical definition ("holding to traditional attitudes and values and cautious about change or innovation"), I'd think the only real "conservatives" in America are Amish & Mennonites. I've never seen other conservatives refuse the change of video game consoles, new tv technologies, new weaponry, new cars, new cell phone/smartphone technologies, etc. So the question isn't a problem of "change", it's the kind of change.

As for your #1. Good points. I can't fault you for anything you said, except the "walking around like I owe them something" part. Believe it or not, but the main point for us is respect for the 14th Amendment, which guarantees all Americans equal treatment under the law. But when people fight to stop minority groups, women's groups, LGBT groups, and Muslims from equal treatment under the law, we have a problem. And guess which group consistently fights those? The fact that conservative leaders are almost always on the opposite side of those "equal rights issues" led me to believe they hate those categories of Americans. (Though someone else made a good point that a lot of times it's simply wedge issues pushed by their donors. I'm not convinced on that one though)

Your #2. Well, you didn't actually oppose what I said so I can't say anything. At least you're honest

Your #3. You're right, there is no balance right now. But I'm all for green technology. If we focused our immense technological base on green technology, we could power everything through solar, wind, geothermal, hydroelectric, etc. But I think there has to be a line. We shouldn't be destroying our wildlife reserves for current energy needs, or taking away regulations on how much corporations can pollute our waters, air, and winds. I figure that if you love my yard, you wouldn't destroy it. Therefore if you love my country's landscapes & national parks, you wouldn't try to destroy them.

Your #4. Well, you skipped it but that's fine. I think I've finally reached my conclusion on that point anyway.







 
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