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What's wrong with Liberals?

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posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 04:05 PM
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a reply to: STTesc

Oh and I think you need to re educate your self with the Hova

Again, if you are all about capitalism that he is your man, have you seen what that man has done with his life?

And has it ever accrued to you that his lyrics were just words in a song to sell to a demographic that he knew would then buy his cd's?

That is what capitalism is about, find a service that people want and do it.
He found his and then created a massive record label.

You can call him thug and scum all you want, but it doesn't change what the man has done over his lifetime.




posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 04:14 PM
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originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: STTesc
Can someone please explain this to me. I just don't understand how anyone can actually agree with the progressive mindset.

To put it bluntly...


BRAVO! BRAVO! BRAVO!



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 04:20 PM
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originally posted by: STTesc

originally posted by: Greven
a reply to: STTesc
What do you think these liberals/progressives believe?


Honestly? That America is bad or wrong. That religion is bad. The white male is bad. And that flooding the border with illegals is okay. That we shouldn't even have a border because "it's racist". That every cent of our tax dollars should go to public housing and food stamps. That hand outs are the norm, nobody should work because the Government takes care of you. That only "officials" should be armed because we're all too stupid to defend ourselves. That the nanny state needs to dictate to us how big our sodas are and what our kids eat at school. That common core is a good thing and our savior to the failing education system that was brought on by the same do gooders that now push this crap. That Detroit is the utopia.

I honestly wish I was joking, but this is what I see coming out of the Democratic party. I don't see America, I see witch hunts and labels further dividing the country. And when I don't agree on something I'm obviously in the wrong because I don't care enough... you know what? The road to hell is paved on good intentions. And it's either good intentions gone wrong or stupidity, probably both, but it's not what this country was founded on. Am I wrong in these thoughts? Should I believe the progressive hive or my lieing eyes? That is what I don't understand. I can't wrap my head around why someone would hate the country they were born in. A country that gave them the opportunities they enjoy. Or why people believe that the Government is their savior...


I'm a registered Democrat. I'm pretty liberal in the real sense of the word. I'm conservative to the point that I believe we shouldn't spend more than we "make" although, as I also believe that the entire financial system is smoke-and-mirrors, that aspect really doesn't mean much I guess.

So as to your comments about what you think about liberals in order above:

America, despite the many blemishes given her by politicians and political parties, remains the best overall system of government, economy and living standards in the world now or at any point in history that I'm aware of.

I happen to like some white males a lot. I like or don't like people on an individual basis. I like or don't like philosophies based on their stated beliefs. There was and still remains a white straight male hegemony in the US that is at the top of most hierarchies of power.

Immigration is a long-standing American tradition. "Flooding the borders with immigrants" is a right-wing political meme and is untrue.

Borders aren't racist; borders are a geopolitical given at this point in our psychological development as a species.

It's absurd to say that anyone thinks that all tax dollars should go to welfare and food stamps. Utterly.

I am a champion in my own life of personal responsibility. If we all did our very best to take care of ourselves, stop tyring to control others, and help each other out when we can, the world would be transformed overnight.

I defend and believe in the US Constitution. The Second Amendment guarantees that Americans can carry firearms. That said, there are reasonable limitations on what kinds should be available for purchase, registration of purchases, and base competency (i.e. not mentally ill or a repeat violent offender) ... as the States decide to put in place.

No one determines whether we drink soda or what the kids eat at school ... except in the latter case, the argument for local governmental controls regularly fail spectacularly with kids being offered garbage food because of stupidity at the school boards.

Common core has been implemented by a professional organization of the nation's Governors, both Democrat and Republican. There are some really stupid aspects to it, but the general idea of establishing common educational standard makes perfect sense.

Detroit is a wasteland. How would anyone, except maybe rabid libertarians and anarchists who want to live in a place with no government, think that hellscape is "utopia"?

There's my answers as a pure blooded liberal.



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 04:31 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

I think you make a lot of solid points, but coming here illegally is very different to normal immigration. In the past, immigrants came here and worked their rear ends off to make a life for themselves and their family. Today, they arrive on top of trains, enter the country illegally and refuse to even learn our language. What little money they do make ends up being sent back to their origin country.

The problem is that these people don't want to be American. They don't want to learn the language, they spit on our flag and on top of it all, a lot of these "poor kids" are either already criminals in their country of origin or are mules running drugs over the border.

America is a country of immigrants, but it's also a country with a border and laws. When you refuse to respect our laws, why should citizenship be given? Again, we should be wanting the best and brightest in the word to come here, not criminals, rapists and drug mules.



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 04:39 PM
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originally posted by: STTesc
a reply to: Gryphon66

I think you make a lot of solid points, but coming here illegally is very different to normal immigration. In the past, immigrants came here and worked their rear ends off to make a life for themselves and their family. Today, they arrive on top of trains, enter the country illegally and refuse to even learn our language. What little money they do make ends up being sent back to their origin country.

The problem is that these people don't want to be American. They don't want to learn the language, they spit on our flag and on top of it all, a lot of these "poor kids" are either already criminals in their country of origin or are mules running drugs over the border.

America is a country of immigrants, but it's also a country with a border and laws. When you refuse to respect our laws, why should citizenship be given? Again, we should be wanting the best and brightest in the word to come here, not criminals, rapists and drug mules.


With all respect, you're generalizing and repeating the standard right-wing cant.

You're saying that EVERYONE who comes to this country to live is illegal, lazy, refuses to integrate, spit on the flag, et. al.

That's not true, as a matter of fact, it's absurd on it's face. (As little offense intended as possible)

Some immigrants probably do feel that way, others and I would say most are looking for what immigrants have always looked for ... a better life. I wish I thought we could still offer such a possibility to them.

But, hey, we have a difference of opinion on this issue. That's really the only point you take umbrage with? Wow.



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 04:41 PM
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originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: STTesc
Can someone please explain this to me. I just don't understand how anyone can actually agree with the progressive mindset.

To put it bluntly...


Exactly.



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 04:44 PM
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I think others addressed these earlier but I'll try to go through point by point (for the record, I'm not a liberal, or a conservative... that doesn't mean they don't sometimes have good points)


originally posted by: STTesc
Can someone please explain this to me. I just don't understand how anyone can actually agree with the progressive mindset. I mean, if you're an American, right? And you believe in what his nation was founded on, right?


America was founded by some very radical leftists of the day. Today many of them would even be called communists. They believed in the idea of individual profit but they were anti religion, anti corporation, anti military, and all the rest.


Social engineering is bad. Socialism doesn't work. Communism doesn't work. These things have been proven throughout history.


Norway has shown that socialism does work. Communism has been a success in China (after a rocky start).


But what has worked is TRUE Capitalism, something this world hasn't seen since at least the 20s. We, as a country, should be moving back towards what worked in the past, what made us so prosperous to begin with, not what has proven to fail over and over.


Those same 20's that gave rise to the great depression? Those 20's where we had rampant poverty and homelessness? The 20's had some of the starkest divisions between classes of any time in the nations history. What we've seen more than anything is that when the economy is roaring for some, it is absolutely abysmal for others. Rather than shoot for such a large contrast wouldn't a more even economy make sense?

Following that, there is a nation of true capitalism today and that's Singapore. They have success similar to Norway. Perhaps the answer you're looking for isn't the system but rather the people who make up that system? The best economic system in the world is doomed to failure if the people are all corrupt.


originally posted by: STTesc
Honestly? That America is bad or wrong. That religion is bad. The white male is bad. And that flooding the border with illegals is okay. That we shouldn't even have a border because "it's racist".


America is often times in the wrong. Just about everyone is in the wrong. Recognizing when you're wrong and having the courage to admit it and change behavior is the mark of wisdom. To give an example, our foreign policy in the Middle East. We haven't created stability in the region, we haven't gained more leverage in the area, and we haven't furthered our interests. We've spent a lot of blood and treasure to make that place more favorable to our interests and have utterly failed. Obama has been trying a different approach, it's too soon to say if it will work (and subsequent administrations may not even try) but it's recognizing a problem.

When you speak of religion, if the president stood up tomorrow and said "Allah has spoken to me and shown me a vision, a vision where America is king of the world, and his almighty grace is bestowed upon us. Allah has prophesied to me that if we eradicate the Jews and destroy the state of Israel he will shower us in glory and praise among all nations of the world". You would be pretty uncomfortable with that speech wouldn't you? Bush said virtually that exact same thing when talking about Iraq, except it was the Christian God and that the Muslims needed to be wiped out. Some of us see these as the exact same thing. It's not that religion is bad, it's that the only people that want to live under a government guided by a certain faith, and obey laws enacted in part by that faiths teachings are members of that faith. In the US we have many different faiths, one should not be placed above the others.

The white male as you put it, is an issue of socioeconomic status. Blacks are most often placed in circumstances that are a hindrance to success and generational poverty has become the norm, just as generational wealth has. People are not escaping the social classes from which they are born and these classes largely fall along racial lines. Recognizing that we have a real problem here is something that needs to be addressed.

Illegals are a complete non issue.


That every cent of our tax dollars should go to public housing and food stamps. That hand outs are the norm, nobody should work because the Government takes care of you.


This is false. 95% of welfare does not goto the poor and disabled. It goes to corporations. Like Exxon who can refuse to build an oil refinery, and force the US to spend billions and buy it for them instead if the US wishes for Exxon to keep those jobs in the country, or a domestic refining capability. Or GE who configures their taxes so that they pay nothing for three out of every four years, and then lobby for a one time tax cut in the year they do pay. Or the wealthy who offshore their money for years, and then take advantage of a periodic tax holiday (they happen about every 8 years) to move all their earned income back to the US tax free. Our tax dollars mostly go towards paying for these forms of corporate welfare, the poor aren't getting a huge payday.

Lets put some numbers to this. The bottom 20% in the US own about 0.01% of the wealth. 1/100 of 1%. Yet taxes, if you take an average rate of 27% aren't largely going to this group. If they were getting 10% of the tax money they would own 2.7% of the wealth, if they were getting 1% they would own .27% of the wealth. The share of wealth they have is proof that tax money is not going to these people.


That common core is a good thing and our savior to the failing education system that was brought on by the same do gooders that now push this crap.


Common core actually is quite good from what I've seen. Maybe that will change in the future but all of the processes they're teaching in math are the best known practices. They're the methods that enable people to quickly calculate accurately in their head, and more importantly apply math to everyday tasks. I do a lot of math, I wasn't taught common core in school but I figured those methods out on my own. They are very good. Most of the opposition here seems to come from people that don't use them and frankly, don't want to relearn anything in order to teach their kids, or... lazy parenting by people who were shortchanged on their own education.



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 04:48 PM
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originally posted by: STTesc
a reply to: Gryphon66

Today, they arrive on top of trains, enter the country illegally



Really??? --- do you have pictures??? --- What point of entry??? ---- sources please.




The problem is that these people don't want to be American.



Can you read their minds???



You can have your opinion (read prejudice) but please do not present them as unsupported facts.



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 04:58 PM
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a reply to: STTesc

The united states has no official language.
We should learn more and not be so hell bent on English or bust.

If you want to a true capitalist, you better be able to speak more then one language.


You are right that people should follow our immigration process, but when it is designed to fail and people get can't complete it, they are going to resort to saying screw it.

We need reform not giant walls with moats and sharks with lasers on their heads.

How much interaction do you have with these said american hating immigrants?

I have lived in so cal most my adult life, current reside in east county san diego.
I deal with them on the daily and don't see any of the picture you paint.



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 05:01 PM
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originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: jude11

Can I shoot 'em yet?


I have them all lined up for ya!

JUDE!!



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 05:02 PM
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The phrase "politcal left" arises from the French Assembly and indicated those folks that were "against the monarchy."

I think it's safe to say that our Founders were also "against the monarchy" ... I'd never thought of it in those terms.

The Founders were Leftists, LOL!



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 05:03 PM
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originally posted by: jude11

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: jude11

Can I shoot 'em yet?


I have them all lined up for ya!

JUDE!!


You know, I'm sure this is in all good fun but there might be some that would misunderstand such joshing as actual threats against other members even in "the Mud-Pit."

Y'all might want to be clear that you're joking about shooting people who disagree with you politically, just in case.

edit on 17Sat, 04 Apr 2015 17:06:00 -050015p052015466 by Gryphon66 because: (no reason given)

edit on 17Sat, 04 Apr 2015 17:06:51 -050015p052015466 by Gryphon66 because: format



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 07:15 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

AWWW I haven't killed ANYONE here....yet.
If they live in such ILLUSORY fear they need to realize where they are and WHOM they are talking to.



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 07:39 PM
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originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: Gryphon66

AWWW I haven't killed ANYONE here....yet.
If they live in such ILLUSORY fear they need to realize where they are and WHOM they are talking to.


I didn't say anyone is afraid of a joke, Cavtrooper. You sound like you'd like that though.

I'm very aware of WHOM I'm talking to ... for the record. I have as much fear of internet braggarts as I do of ...

Well, nothing. I don't have any fear.

You want to say something as overtly stupid as you're "going to shoot liberals," g'head.

There are T&C on this site though that directly forbid making real or implied or imaginary threats of violence.

It's also a form of assault if you're not aware of that.

But you keep swinging that big imaginary gun of yours around Tex.... LOL.



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 07:47 PM
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And look at what happened at the end of the 20's....the great depression

Then the most progressive president in U.S. history got elected and he almost single handedly created the largest middle class the world has ever seen.
edit on 4/4/2015 by muse7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 07:53 PM
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originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: Gryphon66

AWWW I haven't killed ANYONE here....yet.
If they live in such ILLUSORY fear they need to realize where they are and WHOM they are talking to.





posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 08:03 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

IT'S not a gun ,it's a Bat'leth.
GUNS are AIMED you see.
I DEFEND innocents with such acts as killing otherwise I would be a psychopath..and last PSYCHE eval clearly shows I am not.



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 08:04 PM
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a reply to: muse7

YOU LOVE cowboys and you want them in front of you when troubled souls seek your demise.
edit on 4-4-2015 by cavtrooper7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 08:05 PM
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a reply to: muse7

And look at what happened at the end of the 20's....the great depression

Then the most progressive president in U.S. history got elected and he almost single handedly created the largest middle class the world has ever seen.


Some strange things that didn't happen under FDR and a very Liberal Congress he enjoyed.

I wonder who can name what never happened under that ultra-Liberal umbrella?




edit on Apr-04-2015 by xuenchen because: [__0__]2980



posted on Apr, 4 2015 @ 08:14 PM
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originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: STTesc

So how is the bail out and them shipping the jobs overseas the fault of liberals?

Cause isn't it who is the gov to tell a company what to do with their jobs a d their profit margins line of thought that allowed it?

Not all liberals are after your guns and the money grabbing, true capitalist, Jesse and al do not represent them all either.


I was going to say...they did that due to the lax business laws that the conservative/Republicans insisted were good for capitalism and free market.

Conservative people always loose to progressive people, history generally shows that trend. They (the conservative, old school values people) end up getting dragged kicking and screaming into the future every time.

Ronald Reagan, who many Republicans consider one of our best presidents would be considered a liberal today.

Sorry guys, we're moving forward into the future in a progressive, liberal way. Thanks for the debates though, they keep us from moving forward TO FAST. So, in a way conservative people are needed to prevent progress from happening to rapidly.

America will resemble Europe as it is now in about 50 years, there isn't any way to stop it from happening. Europe has a head start on us on managing "white people". We ought to see what works and what doesn't.



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