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What's wrong with Liberals?

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posted on Apr, 5 2015 @ 02:29 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 




posted on Apr, 5 2015 @ 02:32 AM
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Wow, 11 pages! This has been going back and forth now since what, page 7? I bet the rest of ATS is like:



I mentioned memes, so I thought I'd beat everyone to the punch and sling the first arrow preemptively.

You know, if I really was a staunch Democrat or a big liberal, I'd declare victory. I mean, the topic at hand "What's wrong with liberals" isn't even being discussed anymore. The heat is now taken off of any liberal or Democrat. Everyone's now focusing on something far off in left field.

Wookiep and STTect, I honestly really have to hand it to you -- if I was working on a campaign, I'd hire you both in an instant to manage my social media websites. You guys really have finely honed your craft(s)! I'm not being patronizing or facetious -- I really would hire you guys! You guys are tireless, and seem to do an excellent job at running circles around someone you want to get to.

I'm tired of "defending" what I said -- it's back there on page 6 or 7 or something. It is what it is, and people can read it and make up their own mind. I've laid out my intentions behind it, and elaborated in painful detail as to what was meant.

I have to say though, it was fun seeing just how far words could be parsed and how far out of context things could be strung, as to "one up" the other. Just another reason I'd hire you guys in a heartbeat to manage my online presence!

I don't think there's anything more I can say that'll add to this discussion, so I'm going to leave it alone. I'm not claiming defeat or walking home with my tail between my legs, I just don't see how continuing this back and forth stuff is accomplishing anything. Besides, SNL is on and I think I just say Daryl from The Walking Dead. . . I'm going to have to rewind that...



posted on Apr, 5 2015 @ 02:33 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Apr, 5 2015 @ 02:35 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Apr, 5 2015 @ 02:44 AM
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originally posted by: MystikMushroom
Wow, 11 pages! This has been going back and forth now since what, page 7? I bet the rest of ATS is like:



I mentioned memes, so I thought I'd beat everyone to the punch and sling the first arrow preemptively.

You know, if I really was a staunch Democrat or a big liberal, I'd declare victory. I mean, the topic at hand "What's wrong with liberals" isn't even being discussed anymore. The heat is now taken off of any liberal or Democrat. Everyone's now focusing on something far off in left field.

Wookiep and STTect, I honestly really have to hand it to you -- if I was working on a campaign, I'd hire you both in an instant to manage my social media websites. You guys really have finely honed your craft(s)! I'm not being patronizing or facetious -- I really would hire you guys! You guys are tireless, and seem to do an excellent job at running circles around someone you want to get to.

I'm tired of "defending" what I said -- it's back there on page 6 or 7 or something. It is what it is, and people can read it and make up their own mind. I've laid out my intentions behind it, and elaborated in painful detail as to what was meant.

I have to say though, it was fun seeing just how far words could be parsed and how far out of context things could be strung, as to "one up" the other. Just another reason I'd hire you guys in a heartbeat to manage my online presence!

I don't think there's anything more I can say that'll add to this discussion, so I'm going to leave it alone. I'm not claiming defeat or walking home with my tail between my legs, I just don't see how continuing this back and forth stuff is accomplishing anything. Besides, SNL is on and I think I just say Daryl from The Walking Dead. . . I'm going to have to rewind that...


Yeah, I guess the thread died down now (same as my sister thread). If anything, I think we can see that "liberal" and conservative" labels don't matter nearly as much as the term "human". We all have our strengths & weaknesses, likes & dislikes. Once we're able to put that aside, we might actually be able to find solutions to our common problems.

Hmmm, that kind of reads like an epilogue. It's a little sad, in a way.



posted on Apr, 5 2015 @ 02:46 AM
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a reply to: MystikMushroom

I have to admit, this thread riled me up and I'm not even a republican. See sig if you want to know what I REALLY think. I'm not going to share my opinions anymore at this point regarding the OP, I think the thread is done.

As a note- It's frustrating that the left/right can't see ALL hypocrisy and distraction from both sides. It's holding EVERYONE back, and I'm super passionate about that, and I'm hoping to see an end to that one day. I apologize to anyone I might have offended. I wish everyone would come together and see the big picture.



posted on Apr, 5 2015 @ 02:47 AM
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a reply to: STTesc

My definition of a modern Progressive Liberal:

Tolerance for anyone that agrees with what you think is right. Anyone else, is to be publicly shamed, and have their livelihood destroyed, for daring to think independently.

Disagree? Have a look at the Twitter feeds of celebrities whenever someone challenges the Progressive mindset. Watch the Media talking heads verbally eviscerate anyone who dares to point out the hypocrisies in said mindset.

The only 'liberty' involved in the Progressive Liberal point of view, is theirs to attack the liberties of those who disagree with them, and don't just shut up, and get out of their way. They don't want freedom from oppressive government, they want the government to mandate their worldview, and punish any who do not agree with it.



posted on Apr, 5 2015 @ 02:47 AM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

I think you and I have proven that by coming to some sort of common ground. And it's true. Without the R and D next to our name, I would hope that we all want a better America. But some people can't let that tribal mentality go. The "my team vs your team" idea that divides us.

An honest dialogue would be nice without the personal attacks, but this is the internet and you know how these things tend to go. The first few pages went well though.



posted on Apr, 5 2015 @ 02:50 AM
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originally posted by: ProfessorChaos
a reply to: STTesc

My definition of a modern Progressive Liberal:

Tolerance for anyone that agrees with what you think is right. Anyone else, is to be publicly shamed, and have their livelihood destroyed, for daring to think independently.

Disagree? Have a look at the Twitter feeds of celebrities whenever someone challenges the Progressive mindset. Watch the Media talking heads verbally eviscerate anyone who dares to point out the hypocrisies in said mindset.

The only 'liberty' involved in the Progressive Liberal point of view, is theirs to attack the liberties of those who disagree with them, and don't just shut up, and get out of their way. They don't want freedom from oppressive government, they want the government to mandate their worldview, and punish any who do not agree with it.


This does seem to be a Liberal attack point. As I said, the intolerant preaching tolerance. You agree with me or I'll call you racist! It's a modern day witch hunt.

As I said in another thread, most Liberals would rather pull cards than actually debate an issue. And most are incapable of seeing the hypocrisy in their statements.



posted on Apr, 5 2015 @ 02:51 AM
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originally posted by: Wookiep
a reply to: MystikMushroom

I have to admit, this thread riled me up and I'm not even a republican. See sig if you want to know what I REALLY think. I'm not going to share my opinions anymore at this point regarding the OP, I think the thread is done.

As a note- It's frustrating that the left/right can't see ALL hypocrisy and distraction from both sides. It's holding EVERYONE back, and I'm super passionate about that, and I'm hoping to see an end to that one day. I apologize to anyone I might have offended. I wish everyone would come together and see the big picture.



Even me?

Just joking

Maybe the next big thread will be about how Americans can come together to solve our common goals. I could see some debating over what those common goals are, but after that, it would have the potential to be a good one... But you make that thread, not me lol I ran myself ragged today.

Ok, I think I'm signing off for the night. And Happy Easter to everyone who celebrates it.



posted on Apr, 5 2015 @ 02:55 AM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

Even you.

I've made a thread or two like that on specific issues but they didn't get too far.. I don't think I would be a good candidate to make a thread like that, but maybe someone will, someday.

Happy Easter.



posted on Apr, 5 2015 @ 03:10 AM
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originally posted by: STTesc

originally posted by: ProfessorChaos
a reply to: STTesc

My definition of a modern Progressive Liberal:

Tolerance for anyone that agrees with what you think is right. Anyone else, is to be publicly shamed, and have their livelihood destroyed, for daring to think independently.

Disagree? Have a look at the Twitter feeds of celebrities whenever someone challenges the Progressive mindset. Watch the Media talking heads verbally eviscerate anyone who dares to point out the hypocrisies in said mindset.

The only 'liberty' involved in the Progressive Liberal point of view, is theirs to attack the liberties of those who disagree with them, and don't just shut up, and get out of their way. They don't want freedom from oppressive government, they want the government to mandate their worldview, and punish any who do not agree with it.


This does seem to be a Liberal attack point. As I said, the intolerant preaching tolerance. You agree with me or I'll call you racist! It's a modern day witch hunt.

As I said in another thread, most Liberals would rather pull cards than actually debate an issue. And most are incapable of seeing the hypocrisy in their statements.


Or maybe if they act like a sexist/racist/homophobic jerk they get called out for being sexist/racist/homophobic Jerks and publicly shamed, which may affect their livelihood if they involve their businesses or state in their sexist/racist homophobic agenda .



posted on Apr, 5 2015 @ 05:02 AM
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A few actual liberals came into the thread and stated their beliefs.

After that, as usual, several posters came in and told us that we were wrong and instead told us what we believe. It's like we have no say so in the matter. If we disagree with a restatement of what we believe, why then we're being intolerant of others. Malarkey.

On tolerance. In the classic political sense, the idea of tolerance is not agreement with different opinions and beliefs but restraining the desire to remove or change someone based on their differences. Tolerance does not give carte blanche to say anything or do anything. It's cooperation.

The nature of our discussions at ATS are really two-fold: we try to arrive at greater truth by both contributive and combative means. Contributive is my personal favorite: I bring my evidence, you bring yours and we look at the ways these data sets back each other up and suggest new directions of inquiry.

On the combative side, we each bring our evidence and set it against someone elses, and if we do that fairly and reasonably, at the end both parties generally realize what the truth is and move on to the next question.

Notice what both styles have in common though ... EVIDENCE.

Debate does not consist of coming in and making wild baseless statements with no backup: "I think liberals are stinky."

So? Why? How? When?

"None of that matters; stop trying to shut down my opinion! I think liberals are stinky."

/sigh

That's not combative. That doesn't produce anything. There is no consensus, no achievement, and no conclusion.

IF you want to know what a liberal thinks ... ask one. When they tell you, don't fall back on your own beliefs that are in many ways simply diametrically opposed to them and dispute what they said ... ask for their evidence.

Get them to back up what they claim. Then, if you disagree, provide your own evidence, back up your claim.

Compare the evidence fairly and reasonably; see where the evidence takes you.

Or at least, that seems a heckuva lot more productive to me than ... this.



posted on Apr, 5 2015 @ 05:19 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

And then there are some people that refuse to simply read the thread where other people have given their stance on the matter in question. And continue to refuse to acknowledge these statements, even hours later, in a desperate hope to rekindle conversation.

The original point of the thread that I created was to ask a few simple questions. What is devolved into what the equivalent of virtual poop throwing. Why? Because for my sins of having an honest debate with admitted Liberals, I was attacked and called racist.

And now, hours later, the instigators return to continue to play the victim card. And that's the point here, isn't it? That if it's not the race card, it's the victim card or the sexist card. Certain people don't want conversation because conversation doesn't equal "agree with my viewpoint or you're racist". Certain people want witch hunts. Certain people want to ruin everything they touch, just like they did to Detroit.



posted on Apr, 5 2015 @ 05:26 AM
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a reply to: STTesc

Maybe you could help me out here on some things I have been wondering as well:

Why do Christians hate liberals? Why do conservatives hate women and black people? Why do Christians want to stop homosexuals from being in a committed, loving relationship that includes marriage? Why do Christians want to kill homosexuals? Why do conservatives and Christians want to control what a woman does to her own body? Why are conservative/Republican politicians willing to throw America under the bus just so they can make Obama look bad?

Can you answer those questions for me?



posted on Apr, 5 2015 @ 05:40 AM
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a reply to: kaylaluv

I wouldn't know, maybe ask a Conservative?



posted on Apr, 5 2015 @ 05:49 AM
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a reply to: STTesc

I called your position "racist" after you made your statement about "straight white Christian men" being "the most discriminated-against group" in America.

In the interest of practicing what I preach, I want to share the evidence that brings me to my conclusion.

First, my definitions.

Racist means believing or acting as though one racial group is innately and uniformly superior (or inferior) to another OR, as a special case, making statements that suggest that "all" members of a given racial group have common characteristics whether positive (superior) or negative (inferior).

Discrimination means treating one person (or all members of a group) differently due to some characteristic. Thus every one discriminates at times (requiring a shirt be worn in a restaurant). We say that discrimination is unfair or unlawful when it is directed not against the present condition of someone (for example, being dirty and unwashed, or dressed in a certain way, or intoxicated, on drugs, or simply acting belligerent) but against something essential and unchangeable about someone else's makeup (i.e race, religion, sex, national origin, familial status, disability, sexual orientation, gender identification). We unfairly discriminate against someone when we either take something away or deny something to them because of these essential traits.

STTsec, I called you an extremist and absolutist when you let the word (one word) choice of one poster on one subject give credence to claim that "all liberals are a dangerous cult." That is because a) one word from one person cannot prove anything about millions of people, and b) to claim such an absurd thing on its face based on the evidence of one person's use of one word is ... stunningly extreme. And to lump millions of people together in one word is an absolute reference that denies reality.

I called you a racist because of your "all white men are ..." statement. Here's what I said:



You are a racist. Your comment about white men being the most discriminated against demographic PROVES IT. You're so far gone in your rapid extremism though, you don't see it.


By my definition of "racist" above, your position in this statement is clear. You're stating that you believe ALL white (race) straight (sexual orientation) Christian (religion) men (sex) are ALWAYS having something taken away or having something denied to them because of these essential traits.

SWCM's have always had more rights in this country than any other group. Period. They didn't require Amendments to the Constituion to allow them to vote or to be treated equally before the laws of the land. There have never been laws on those books that have incarcerated or otherwise punished SWCMs exclusively as did the sodomy laws. The percentages of SWCMs in positions of power in government, industry and other commerce ... are overwhelming.

That's the basis of my use of the adjectives racist, extremist and absolutist for your stated positions here.


edit on 5Sun, 05 Apr 2015 05:53:09 -050015p052015466 by Gryphon66 because: grammar



posted on Apr, 5 2015 @ 05:53 AM
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a reply to: STTesc

I see. Why then, aren't you asking the same questions as I am? Don't you want to know why conservatives/Republicans/Christians are ruining our country?



posted on Apr, 5 2015 @ 06:01 AM
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a reply to: STTesc

You don't see that you started attacking others and playing the "victim card" early on in the thread?

I offered my beliefs and you even agreed with them with the exception of my comments on immigration.

Then you blasted ALL liberals because of one word that one poster used that you took exception to, and that made it clear that your real intent was to express your negative views on liberals.

You have not answered even one time my request that you PROVE or at least GIVE EVIDENCE for your assertation that all white straight Christian men are the MOST discriminated against group in this country.

Merely STATING that doesn't make it true. If it's ONLY your belief for which you have NO BASIS, then just say so.

You keep stating, in my opinion dishonestly, that you've answered all questions. That's the only one I've asked you and you've not offered even one fact in return.

What does "hours later" have to do with anything? Does your thread have "operating hours" that you didn't care to post? I mean really. Pfft.

You don't like to have someone stand up to you and point out what you're really doing and not doing. I get that. But please don't act like the "wounded party" in the scenario of "poop throwing" here.



posted on Apr, 5 2015 @ 06:01 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

So because a group has always been treated a certain way it's impossible for that to ever change? Or are you saying you wouldn't care if that ever changed? I've made my points well known through this thread, you continue to refuse to read them. I'm not going to sit here and retype something simply because you refuse to scroll back a page or 2. I do honestly believe that the white race is being discriminated against. That's my position.

I've gone through 12 pages and I'm eating and going to sleep. You can carry the torch and post to your hearts content. You know my position and you can read where I've defended my position. I owe you nothing more.




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