Tracers to mark a low magazine.. Who dun it?

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: projectvxn

Is that your way of saying you have never fired two guns whilst jumping through the air?

Don't worry, me neither.

(Yes, that was a Hot Fuzz reference)

Don't forget you also have to empty your gun into the air whilst yelling.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: projectvxn

Is that your way of saying you have never fired two guns whilst jumping through the air?

Don't worry, me neither.

(Yes, that was a Hot Fuzz reference)

I have fired one huge gun while flying through the air...Many times lol.

a reply to: Answer

Desk pop...

That's a real thing right?

You were all so convincing.

originally posted by: projectvxn

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: projectvxn

Is that your way of saying you have never fired two guns whilst jumping through the air?

Don't worry, me neither.

(Yes, that was a Hot Fuzz reference)

I have fired one huge gun while flying through the air...Many times lol.

Door gunner hax

@ Answer: yes, that too. AHHHHHHHH

While I appreciate the assumption that I'm some comeplete keyboard doofie due to the high population of keyboard doofies, I'm not trying to advocate anything beyond normal reason.

Have you guys never heard of "active shooter bags"?

Straight up retreating isn't always the best option either..

Obviously if your not compromised and your taking care of your family... Boogie down as soon as possible.. But that's not always the case.. Just as often douche bags get a bug up there bum and directly target someone and if that someone is me.. I want to be prepared..

To answer th question about the 50 rounds... I carry 28 usually. One full mag loaded and one mag backup.. The 50 round x products drum ideally wouldn't be the only one in my perfect active shooter bag. 3 extra 50 round mags and one full in the gun, along with a full field trauma kit, extra cell phone, camera, and a bottle of water.

An active shooter bag isn't something you carry 24/7 but it's kinda nice to know you can get to it quikly in the gabby Gifford scenario.

Me and my fiancé often use 2 separate carts and attack 2 separate lists at the grocery store because 1 we have 2 kids and they are huge so they don't fit in the cart with all the food it takes to feed the beasts... And 2 it saves a lot of time.. What do I do when shots ring out on the other side of the store and my fiancé and daughter are nowhere to be seen? Escape with my son and hope for the best? I don't know that I could do that..

I'm not trying to advocate for some John Wayne stuff but you guys should know that it's very real to have terrible things happen. The stories I've heard from police about the things they've had to respond to is pretty heart breaking.

One guy was out mowing his lawn and while he was out behind some trees on the back edge of the property a terrible terrible person broke into his hoouse and began to do terrible things to his wife and daughter. Luckily the guy ran out of gas and heard screaming when he was getting gas. Unluckily he didn't carry on his own property or his house.. Guns were safed in the bedroom with the bad guy and his family. Everyone Survived but he said the husband is in pretty rough shape, he got stabbed several times. The cop telling me this even made sure to reiterate how rare events like this are but it was enough for him as a young officer to never not carry again.. He said you just don't know what or when it's gonna happen so try to be ready for as much as possible as often as possible with out inconveniencing the ones around you.

Someone asked earlier if I lived in fallujah.... I live on the outskirts of flint Michigan.. In a relatively safe area, I can only think of a few terrible public drug related shootings in recent years.. Maybe 5. But just a few miles away... Where I frequent very often.. It's a different story. I know the neighborhoods to stay away from but some areas of flint that are some of the more busy business areas have become more dangerous. Several businesses I shop at that I couldn't even think of a safer alternative to within an hour have had shootings or other violent incidents happen nearby or actually at the business in question.

Mental health in Genesee county is pretty weak.. It's like walking on thin ice everywhere... So many scandalous females too.. That perpetuates many much vilolent incidents that have plenty get killed in the cross fire.

A good friend of mine was almost killed when 3 gentlemen with Ak47's opened up on an apartment complex he was in, now I'm not saying you should go out and go toe to toe with these guys if your not their target... But if 3 guys with ak47's are trying to gun me down.. I'm not betting my life on retreating.. All there is to it.

One of the most heartbreaking events was a 50 something soccer mom gunned down at a gas pump to steal her car for meth, this was the third person these guys shot at in one day and the second car that was stolen by them, I can't help but think that if one of the first people these ass hats ran into was able to properly defend themselves the rest of the day would of gone much differently.

And in the event that I would have to run through my first mag trying to gain the upper hand in a firefight I would think having a signal of sorts to let you know the reload is coming would be very helpful, that was the original question in the OP. In the event that you actually expend your ammo and need to reload In a fire fight are there any tons besides a tracer or maybe a light loaded round to let you know?

a reply to: projectvxn

To respond to this and the next comment about too many movies and video games... I shoot 300+ rounds a week through my 9mm. I can put an entire mag from 15 yards into a tennis ball sized circle fairly quickly. At 40 yards I'm about 70% on a paper plate.

While yes I've seen plenty of movies and I played call of duty back in the world at war days like 30 years ago(it feels like lol) those experiences usually only cement my way of thinking towards actual logical events. The fallacies in video games and movies are clear to me and I'm not being influenced by that in anyway when I think about possible tactical situations.

No I've never been in military combat, I've very much so been in combat. Mostly hand to hand, I've been stabbed on 2 different occasions (one robbery one crazy person) I've been shot at more times then I can even remember, tho it was just vague shooting towards the bar I worked at they still pinged off the wall nearby.. I didn't chase anyone.. I hid like a scared mofo lol. It was just a buncha drunks tho no family of mine to worry about, in that scenario I pulled the ole "don't gotta be faster then the bear just your buddy" technique lol.

I'm not trying to advocate any kind of heroics and I'm rather flabbergasted that so many people would think that having a faster reload isn't a useful skill.. Most reloads will be before you out and in cover but still that time you really gotta hit the gas, why wouldn't you wanna be able to reload as fast as possible?

a reply to: mindseye1609

You want a fast reload, practice your reloads. Thousands upon thousands of times. All the cool tricks in the world aren't going to do you a bit of good if your mechanics suck.

Aside from my time in the military I've never carried tracer rounds. Nobody I know professionally or personally carries tracer rounds, and that's a list that includes tactical and task force officers, across local, state, and federal levels.

You can "what if" and "maybe" all day long. What if you're in a Gifford situation: are you going to go to your car and grab your bag and then go back? Why? Carry the bag with you? To a public event? That'll generate some calls and some scrutiny. Worried about the grocery store scenario? Don't split up then. If you have to split up, have a conversation and come up with a plan. There's an answer for every "what if" man.

a reply to: Shamrock6

And there's a what if for every answer.

In the grocery store scenario I wouldn't have the active shooter bag on me more then likely and would have to deal with it with the 9mm.

Active shooter bags are stealthy if you do it right too. They wouldn't draw any attention. In my case Il probably get the baby bag that has a hook and loop sealed center area and easy to get into and ez to draw the gun from but it's just a cute baby bag.... Flowers and ducks and whatnot. Wouldn't raise any eyebrows. I've actually carried my full size 1911 in my baby bag several times before I got my 9mm. A purpose built one would only make it easier.

The active shooter bag would rarely be on my person, maybe in the malls in flint Id carry it but for the most part it's in the car. I stay away from events that could draw violence like rap concerts and political events just so I don't even have to deal with anything at an event like that if it were to happen. To many people and cops to bust out my own firearm. Security will shoot you down even if your the good guy.

I've had to work down in Detroit and in the hood in flint on several occasions, that's when the active shooter bag probably would get the most use. I've been pretty far off the beaten path into ruins in Detroit filming and having just a side arm makes you fell terribly inferior that far out into the hinterlands lol

a reply to: Shamrock6

And I do train the poop out of reloads. Paul castle style. Instructor zero style. Blind folded. wet hands. Dry hands. Gloved hands. One handed. Off handed. I train reloading a ton. This is how I know that you can cut reload time by 66% or so by being ready and bringing the magazine up as you fire you last couple rounds. Within 15 yards I find it doesn't effect accuracy much but it definitely slows down the rate of fire while multitasking.

My goal would be to be extracting the magazine from its holster or my pocket while the last round in the current mag was fired. As the gun locked back the new magazine would already be on its way and as I unlock the current mag to drop it the new mag will be almost home.. Time it just right and reload time is almost null. I've seen 3 gunners pull this off a lot and it's something to behold. They count their rounds I'm assuming but idk if I can count on counting in a combat situation.

originally posted by: mindseye1609
a reply to: Shamrock6

And I do train the poop out of reloads. Paul castle style. Instructor zero style. Blind folded. wet hands. Dry hands. Gloved hands. One handed. Off handed. I train reloading a ton. This is how I know that you can cut reload time by 66% or so by being ready and bringing the magazine up as you fire you last couple rounds. Within 15 yards I find it doesn't effect accuracy much but it definitely slows down the rate of fire while multitasking.

My goal would be to be extracting the magazine from its holster or my pocket while the last round in the current mag was fired. As the gun locked back the new magazine would already be on its way and as I unlock the current mag to drop it the new mag will be almost home.. Time it just right and reload time is almost null. I've seen 3 gunners pull this off a lot and it's something to behold. They count their rounds I'm assuming but idk if I can count on counting in a combat situation.

Competition shooters plan their reloads based on the round count of the course. It's easy to count the targets ahead of time and decide when/where to reload.

Knowing when to reload in an actual shooting scenario is simple, just ask yourself: "have I been shooting for awhile and is it safe to reload?" If the answer to the first is yes but the second is no, wait until you run the mag dry before reloading since the last round in the mag could be the one that stops the fight. If the answer is yes to both, go ahead and reload while you have a chance and retain your partially-spent mag.

You won't be doing lightening-fast competition style reloads in a real-world life and death scenario so just keep your training realistic and put that nonsense out of your head.

You also need to be training for more realistic scenarios. 9mm carbines with 50 round mags and sustained-fire events are not realistic.

a reply to: mindseye1609

Refresh my memory: are 3 gunners' targets shooting back at them?

Unless you have the time and money to devote to achieving an extremely high rate of proficiency, neat tricks will get you killed. There's a reason one of the laws of combat is "keep it simple, stupid."

So far I've seen three combat vets weigh in here, but the response is more or less incredulity at the answers. So my advice would be this: it's your money, do what you want with it

a reply to: Shamrock6

No 3 gunners being shot at and that's why they can count rounds... This is why I was considering some other type signal.

A signal woudlnt be a bad thing to let you know to move to cover so you can re again cover while jot comepletely vulnerable.

Your not the oly combat vets Ive talked too, other forums is where the idea even came from, I reckon it's mostly Vietnam era guys that I rmemeber talking about it tho, probably helps to get your reload going through the '___' lol.

In a scenario where Im putting my foot on the gas a dumping a whole mag anticipations a quick reload, someone probably won't be shooting back either. i know Im not stepping into incoming fire to just try and interrupt their attack, that's silly.

And remember I don't just carry to protect from humans. A very very fit ex special forces (army sf) friend of mine just about got killed when a stray pit bull ran up on him, a running rabid dog will probably get me to expend a whole mag pretty quickly. He didn't have a gun only a pocket knife and he was one of the best Hand to hand fighters I've ever met, could tie me into a pretzel one handed.. And the dog rocked his world.

So I get it, tracers suck cause they suck. K.I.S.S. il go get a wheel gun and practice my 2 shot kills when taking a knee in perfect weather because for sure Il only need 2-5 shots to save my life.

I can see how reaching to reload early like the 3 gun example I gave could effect you adversely in combat and if that's the case don't do it, grab tbe mag as soon as you know it's empty, but I garuntee you that if your waiting to see you gun hold open, your reloading half as fast as you could at least.

originally posted by: mindseye1609


So I get it, tracers suck cause they suck. K.I.S.S. il go get a wheel gun and practice my 2 shot kills when taking a knee in perfect weather because for sure Il only need 2-5 shots to save my life.

I can see how reaching to reload early like the 3 gun example I gave could effect you adversely in combat and if that's the case don't do it, grab tbe mag as soon as you know it's empty, but I garuntee you that if your waiting to see you gun hold open, your reloading half as fast as you could at least.

I'm going to point it out again because apparently I was too subtle the first time:

There isn't a single professional firearm trainer in the U.S. Military, Police sector, or civilian world teaching people to use tracers.

That should be the biggest indicator that it's an idea which has no merit.

a reply to: Answer

O I don't train with a 9mm Ar pisto I train with my cz p01. 300+ a week usually closer to 500. I don't even own anything besides pistols and shotguns. Like I said before "my perfect active shooter bag would contain" basically if I had to be in a north Hollywood style event, what would I want.

50%+ of my training goes to hand to hand pistol fighting as well. Rarely in a concealed carry defense scenario will you have more the a few feet and usually will have to physical fight as well as shoot. Kicking knees, using elbows and keeping the gun close to retain the firearm (Paul castle style) I usually spend the first hour at my range with my .380 and doing fast draw from pocket to physically pushing off the target and shooting while retreating. I need to get a grappling dummy to make it even better but those boys are pricey.

This is a major problem in the gun community today, the cry wolf issue so to say. As soon as someone has a single idea that isn't perfect military protocol everything else goes in one ear and out the other. I've been pretty outspoken on ATS about retreating and not trusting a pistol in a gunfight. If your gonna be in a gunfight a pistol is not what you want. In an emergency one will do but that's all.

Since I'm not allowed to carry a rifle or shotgun loaded in the car the new pistol carbines make for nice force multipliers in the case you need it. its not something I would train expecting to need but none the less the capability for both home defense and personal defense out and about of a sig mpx 9mm is something I definitely want at my disposal. She's a great great home defense gun and a great great truck gun. Hopefully I never need it for anything but plinking but if I do then il be glad I had it.

a reply to: Answer

And I appreciate the info. So now to move on from that (which we did several pages ago) what Are some other possible indicators that you would be running low for a high stress combat environment where counting rounds isn't feasable?

A round that whistled through the air would be cool for it Imo. Skmehow make a good normal round that whistled. All the capabilities of a normal round just super annoying lol.

a reply to: mindseye1609

Train your reloads. I do so all the time.

Tracers are a good way to cause damage that could put you in jail or destroy property you didn't intend to destroy.

Civilians have one huge and very real worry. HOME INVASION.

In that scenario it is very likely that you will trade shots with a bad guy, or multiple bad guys. This is the scenario you should train for.

Firing off tracers in your home will cause fires.

a reply to: projectvxn

The legality on most of them is even kind of gray area too isn't it? I wasn't really married to the tracer idea I. The first place I'm really just trying to find a way to prepare for the reload before catching the hold open.

Like has been mentioned by many the majority of reloads will be "tac reloads" where you retain your not comeplteyl spent mag whil in cover of possible. That scenario a signal is null but like I've also said before, in the scenario where you really gotta be on the gas were talking the difference of less then a second compared to a couple seconds at least. That's a big difference

originally posted by: mindseye1609
a reply to: Shamrock6

So I get it, tracers suck cause they suck. K.I.S.S. il go get a wheel gun and practice my 2 shot kills when taking a knee in perfect weather because for sure Il only need 2-5 shots to save my life.

Nobody said that, so there's not really any need to be melodramatic about it.

I can guarantee you that if you dump a whole mag at somebody with the intent of keeping their head down, you will face a hard line of questioning. I cannot come up with a realistic scenario that you would need to do something like, and necessitate all this tracer talk.

Will you end a fight with a couple of shots? Maybe, maybe not. But as a civilian, if you're looking at multiple mag changes in a scenario, you need to be looking at how to get the hell out of there.

a reply to: Shamrock6

... That was a touch dramatic lol but you get my point. Guns have more rounds for a reason. I would still carry my .45 if I didn't think more rounds wasn't an advantage. Revolvers would still be the norm.

I agree that if your in that situation then finding a way out would be ideal, and supressing fire can help you retreat..

Let's just take the Texas sniper case and let's modify it for modern times... He's got an AR or even better an AK instead of a bolt action. Your pinned behind your car.. People shot all around.. Several rounds have hit near you and your car... Just run and chance it? Or get covering fire onto the shooters position while you either advance into his dead zone underneath and then find another way out or you run away. If you have nothing but open fields to run away too advancing under is the next best bet... Neither of these tactics are going to work if the shooters head is up and he's ready.. 28 rounds is gonna barely accomplish this job and I really don't ever want to be in that scenario but Ya know lightning quick reload would be mighty awesome if I was lol.

originally posted by: Answer
They also don't stagger FMJ and hollow point ammunition in the same mag... the logic behind which I can't fathom.

I just noticed this comment.

That's actually something one of the very first people to ever teach me about guns and ammo used to talk about. He was a cop, a county mounty. Old and eccentric... He had lots of bad ideas.. This is why I don't carry it now but he really talked it up as being pretty standard. Maybe it was a weird phase in law enforcement or something? Some cult status trainer from the 70's used to do it maybe? Idk but the logic seemed sound to a 23 year old kid with his first pistol lol. 7 years later I don't do it anymore and wouldn't. Maybe carry a mag of fmj with my .380 along with hollow points but that's only for my.380 and only if they had a coat on or a biker leather maybe. .380 hollow point is notorious for not penetrating.