Kansas to allow residents to carry concealed guns without permit

a reply to: RickyD

Funny thing is...I didn't even grow up with them yet still knew not to play with one. I was taught about them but didn't have them around. It wasn't until I was 15 or so that I was really introduced to shooting and hunting. Found I loved it and it provided really good food. Even got more into edged weapons because of it and had a pretty lucrative business from edged weapons for a bit in college. It is really about the education of firearms and the respect you instill about them in those you care about.

originally posted by: anonentity

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: anonentity

I think the rules and responsibilities enumerated by The Bill Of Rights relates to the government, not the people. So certainly one would expect that someone in a place to fall under the auspices of Constitutional control to have read and understand the rules and responsibilities of what they are to be doing in their duties of sworn office.

But as it relates to the gist of where you are going (or, where I believe you are going), the only thing the 2nd Amendment stipulates is that any able bodies male over the age of 18 has a right to keep and bear arms. I would surmise that the Equal Rights Amendment extends this to able bodied women over 18, as well as non able bodied of either gender.

Yes able bodied, would be of sound mind as well I guess, because to be able bodied you would have to have a sound mind. This would exempt a few.

The second amendment is a preexisting negative right which is not to be "infringed".

It has no qualifications.

It is a settled matter as far as the federal government is concerned. The states themselves have their own laws which may overlap or veer away from the intention. There are even some downright anti second amendment laws in some states. They need to be individually challenged in each case, that's how it works here.

originally posted by: greencmp

originally posted by: anonentity

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: anonentity

I think the rules and responsibilities enumerated by The Bill Of Rights relates to the government, not the people. So certainly one would expect that someone in a place to fall under the auspices of Constitutional control to have read and understand the rules and responsibilities of what they are to be doing in their duties of sworn office.

But as it relates to the gist of where you are going (or, where I believe you are going), the only thing the 2nd Amendment stipulates is that any able bodies male over the age of 18 has a right to keep and bear arms. I would surmise that the Equal Rights Amendment extends this to able bodied women over 18, as well as non able bodied of either gender.

Yes able bodied, would be of sound mind as well I guess, because to be able bodied you would have to have a sound mind. This would exempt a few.

The second amendment is a preexisting negative right which is not to be "infringed".

It has no qualifications.

It is a settled matter as far as the federal government is concerned. The states themselves have their own laws which may overlap or veer away from the intention. There are even some downright anti second amendment laws in some states. They need to be individually challenged in each case, that's how it works here.

It is saddening to me that more don't challenge or care and allow state govt to walk all over their rights.

I grew up with my parents instilling a respect for authority, when it is deserved and mutual. And that went hand in hand with teaching a strong work ethic...you get out what you put in no matter if you work for another or own your own business.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

I know tons of kids like that. To be quite honest growing up it really didn't matter what family you had or culture you lived 95% of us knew better than to muck about with guns unless we had a valid reason to. I got my first .22 rifle at about 8 years old. My grandfather held onto it and took me shooting any time I asked. At about 12-13 years old I was allowed to hold onto it and had demonstrated in that old WWII airborne soldiers eyes to be competent and responsible and my family agreed. That began my gun ownership in life for real. I am now 29 in May and I have never ever even come close to an accident. Ignorance is dangerous and this culture we reside in today is horrid for critical thinking and taking responsibility. I have taken to the same mindset as I do riding a long board in one of the most dangerous places in the US to do so. I am doubly careful and mindful of others for this fact. But there is an entire other community from which it seems we share that is the opposite and I can relax and know I'm safe from idiots...I hate to say it like that but it's the truth and I'd like to spread that truth in order to rectify it through awareness of it.

originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: Vasa Croe

As a non American , i think the right to carry arms takes the war on terror and criminals back to where it belongs, that is to every sane and able citizen . But even the most hardened sceptic has to agree that their are a lot of idiots out there.

As it is the "Constitution" that gives the citizen the right to carry, I think every one must read and understand it first before they have the right to carry. If not it would just be many stray bullets flying around.

I have to post on this again as I think this hits the nail on the head. I don't know a single gun owning American that would not fight for their own. I think one of the main reasons terrorism has not taken hold anywhere in the US is because we do fight and that scares people sometimes. I love what I have and I love my family and would fight tooth and nail for them. If I had no guns I would literally fight tooth and nail. I don't think it will ever come to that but I am at peace with it if it does.

I live my life trying to help others as much as I have the means to. I respect my family and my elders. I work hard for them every day. I will until the day I die. And I don't equate that to being an American, I equate it to being human.

a reply to: anonentity

as i mentioned....it has been further clarified that one cannot be discriminated against for things like disability, skin color, religion, etc. as well, the intention of "able bodied" arises from the term "militia" in the 2nd amendment. "Able bodied" is interpretive and a phrase given to us via Supreme Court ruling on the matter.

I am of the belief that your mental state is no ones business. And in that vein, also believe if we made it less of our business, we would have far fewer spree shooters. Especially as it pertains to the last 20 years, the overwhelming majority are people who were under treatment with SSI/SSRI medications. I would argue that the causative factor was not their mental state insomuch as their mental state under the influence of SSI/SSRI. Instead of rehabilitative treatment, it was a catalyst for violence that would be unthinkable had intervention never happened to begin with.

That is the problem with laws and legal precedent: unforeseen consequence. It is better to create a system that seeks to limit the 550 or so in a position of governmental power, than to go through the "cat herding" exercise of trying to control 300mil people. Thats just good ol' plain common sense.

originally posted by: RickyD
a reply to: Vasa Croe

I know tons of kids like that. To be quite honest growing up it really didn't matter what family you had or culture you lived 95% of us knew better than to muck about with guns unless we had a valid reason to. I got my first .22 rifle at about 8 years old. My grandfather held onto it and took me shooting any time I asked. At about 12-13 years old I was allowed to hold onto it and had demonstrated in that old WWII airborne soldiers eyes to be competent and responsible and my family agreed. That began my gun ownership in life for real. I am now 29 in May and I have never ever even come close to an accident. Ignorance is dangerous and this culture we reside in today is horrid for critical thinking and taking responsibility. I have taken to the same mindset as I do riding a long board in one of the most dangerous places in the US to do so. I am doubly careful and mindful of others for this fact. But there is an entire other community from which it seems we share that is the opposite and I can relax and know I'm safe from idiots...I hate to say it like that but it's the truth and I'd like to spread that truth in order to rectify it through awareness of it.

Oh...you just jumped to the top of my great ATS'ers list. I have 6 longboards and hit parking decks and wherever I can anytime I can. My 8 year old daughter rides with me. My favorite is my Loaded Tan Tien...nothing like bamboo to me....

a reply to: Vasa Croe

I agree with you all, the moment some coward thinks, he can kill people, he also thinks they are unarmed, but if he knows a fair proportion are armed, and they know how to use the weapon. Surely that's a big deterrent. Like the Sydney siege would have been over before it had started if that were the case. Even if a Criminal has a weapon, and knows the rest are armed, as opposed to him having a weapon and the rest are unarmed . It has got to make a big difference. Same with the latest massacre in Kenya, if the teachers or other responsible adults were armed the death toll wouldn't have been as great, plus the fact a round into their explosive vests would have finished them.

originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: Vasa Croe

I agree with you all, the moment some coward thinks, he can kill people, he also thinks they are unarmed, but if he knows a fair proportion are armed, and they know how to use the weapon. Surely that's a big deterrent. Like the Sydney siege would have been over before it had started if that were the case. Even if a Criminal has a weapon, and knows the rest are armed, as opposed to him having a weapon and the rest are unarmed . It has got to make a big difference. Same with the latest massacre in Kenya, if the teachers or other responsible adults were armed the death toll wouldn't have been as great, plus the fact a round into their explosive vests would have finished them.

It is sad the death toll in the Kenyan school was so high. I would bet the ones that died would have been great attributes to society, and likely worked hard to become role models. The Kenyan people, as a whole, are extremely giving and welcoming to outsiders. My family has visited Kenya on numerous occasions and have felt nothing but welcome and love every time.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: anonentity

as i mentioned....it has been further clarified that one cannot be discriminated against for things like disability, skin color, religion, etc. as well, the intention of "able bodied" arises from the term "militia" in the 2nd amendment. "Able bodied" is interpretive and a phrase given to us via Supreme Court ruling on the matter.

I am of the belief that your mental state is no ones business. And in that vein, also believe if we made it less of our business, we would have far fewer spree shooters. Especially as it pertains to the last 20 years, the overwhelming majority are people who were under treatment with SSI/SSRI medications. I would argue that the causative factor was not their mental state insomuch as their mental state under the influence of SSI/SSRI. Instead of rehabilitative treatment, it was a catalyst for violence that would be unthinkable had intervention never happened to begin with.

That is the problem with laws and legal precedent: unforeseen consequence. It is better to create a system that seeks to limit the 550 or so in a position of governmental power, than to go through the "cat herding" exercise of trying to control 300mil people. Thats just good ol' plain common sense.

Completely agree with you on the mental state argument. Sure there are those that have a mental instability and a propensity for violence, but the medication some are being out on, that have never exhibited violent behavior, is driving them to it. I am a pretty firm believer in what you focus on is what you become. If you focus your energy on your kid being mentally unstable and violent, then your kid will likely be that.

there are a lot of natural ways to work on these things. I am a firm believer that exercise for kids is a huge component to mental well being. Electronics do not give them the physical exercise they need. I don't think games in particular make them violent at all, I think lethargy and "do nothingness" allow them to sit idle for too long....and you know what they say about idle minds.

All of my kids have a healthy respect for the outdoors and I love that. They have friends over that want to just sit and watch tv, but my kids are bored with it after 20 minutes and want to go outside and explore. Everyone needs to disconnect every now and then.

And how this related back to the topic is because the amount of spree killings and whatnot has gone up since electronics have come about, not since guns have come about. I relate a lot of it back to kids not having a healthy balance with technology and nature, and I directly blame parents for it.

You know what really annoys me, that people fought and died to get you these rights, yet people just seem to be ignorant to them.

I am not American but I certainly see the purpose and benefit of a republic and the constitution (based on Magna Carta) . I also cringe when people call it a Democracy, it is NOT a democracy, it is a CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC.

My god man, people are so ignorant nowadays. To have these kind of questions asked by a foreigner pointing out the bloody obvious should be shameful really.


I'm going to say it..

SHAME ON THE PEOPLE WHO TRAMPLE OVER THE CONSTITUTION AND THE REPUBLIC.

Not my direct fight but when you stand up to the tyranny, it will save us all from the wars. Please, take back control of your country and your rights, it will make the world a safer place.

originally posted by: bullcat
You know what really annoys me, that people fought and died to get you these rights, yet people just seem to be ignorant to them.

I am not American but I certainly see the purpose and benefit of a republic and the constitution (based on Magna Carta) . I also cringe when people call it a Democracy, it is NOT a democracy, it is a CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC.

My god man, people are so ignorant nowadays. To have these kind of questions asked by a foreigner pointing out the bloody obvious should be shameful really.


I'm going to say it..

SHAME ON THE PEOPLE WHO TRAMPLE OVER THE CONSTITUTION AND THE REPUBLIC.

Not my direct fight but when you stand up to the tyranny, it will save us all from the wars. Please, take back control of your country and your rights, it will make the world a safer place.

Very true...there are many that just roll along in life, ignorant to what they actually have and allow authority to trample it because they asert themselves over the weak. Funny thing happens when they are challenged though...they can't have an educated argument and resort to what you see on YouTube with yelling and puffing chests. I am a huge fan of the people who film ignorance when confronted.

a reply to: bullcat
A lot of us know the government is dead wrong on a lot of the "laws" they pass. The problem is, unless you are a good lawyer by profession, know a good lawyer you can afford, or know one that will go pro bono for you, there is nothing we peons can do about it. Police are mostly morons that just follow orders, you will be lucky to make it to court alive if you decide to go the civil disobedience route and carry without the almighty government's blessing in places like NYC that are the worst constitution offenders.

originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: bullcat
A lot of us know the government is dead wrong on a lot of the "laws" they pass. The problem is, unless you are a good lawyer by profession, know a good lawyer you can afford, or know one that will go pro bono for you, there is nothing we peons can do about it. Police are mostly morons that just follow orders, you will be lucky to make it to court alive if you decide to go the civil disobedience route and carry without the almighty government's blessing in places like NYC that are the worst constitution offenders.

Again, people fought and died for those rights, if you are not prepared to defend those rights, you may aswell give them up.

What also annoys me to the bone is when people come and dictate how we attack American rights and way of life and values, no really? The people that are really attacking your rights and way of life is YOURSELVES.

BACKBONE... you have the numbers.

You out number them.

DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

The world (especially Europe) pays for your INACTION.

We are the ones suffering from your INACTION.

That is why we care about your constitution and system, even when YOU DO NOT.

Because we are the ones that pay for it.

originally posted by: bullcat

originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: bullcat
A lot of us know the government is dead wrong on a lot of the "laws" they pass. The problem is, unless you are a good lawyer by profession, know a good lawyer you can afford, or know one that will go pro bono for you, there is nothing we peons can do about it. Police are mostly morons that just follow orders, you will be lucky to make it to court alive if you decide to go the civil disobedience route and carry without the almighty government's blessing in places like NYC that are the worst constitution offenders.

Again, people fought and died for those rights, if you are not prepared to defend those rights, you may aswell give them up.

What also annoys me to the bone is when people come and dictate how we attack American rights and way of life and values, no really? The people that are really attacking your rights and way of life is YOURSELVES.

BACKBONE... you have the numbers.

You out number them.

DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

The world (especially Europe) pays for your INACTION.

We are the ones suffering from your INACTION.

That is why we care about your constitution and system, even when YOU DO NOT.

Because we are the ones that pay for it.

Nice...very strong argument. I like your enthusiasm.

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: bullcat

originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: bullcat
A lot of us know the government is dead wrong on a lot of the "laws" they pass. The problem is, unless you are a good lawyer by profession, know a good lawyer you can afford, or know one that will go pro bono for you, there is nothing we peons can do about it. Police are mostly morons that just follow orders, you will be lucky to make it to court alive if you decide to go the civil disobedience route and carry without the almighty government's blessing in places like NYC that are the worst constitution offenders.

Again, people fought and died for those rights, if you are not prepared to defend those rights, you may aswell give them up.

What also annoys me to the bone is when people come and dictate how we attack American rights and way of life and values, no really? The people that are really attacking your rights and way of life is YOURSELVES.

BACKBONE... you have the numbers.

You out number them.

DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

The world (especially Europe) pays for your INACTION.

We are the ones suffering from your INACTION.

That is why we care about your constitution and system, even when YOU DO NOT.

Because we are the ones that pay for it.

Nice...very strong argument. I like your enthusiasm.

I think this is really why people HATE America and Americans in Europe.

Your INACTION and we PAY THE PRICE for it.

Getting to the root of it.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

The main factor of the spree killings, is looking like the medication that they are on in the first place, even the German plane disaster looks like a candidate. The Pharmaceutical industry seems to be out of control. Just take the Drug Xenocal for Obesity, the side effects are basically that you s%^$# yourself. The crap got approved. Then their was the French one, the FDA, approved it when it was plain in France that after a year on it you were going to die of Pulmonary Oedema. They still approved it. No where do I see any responsible Gov. agency stating the obvious, which is that we are consuming to much crap food. They never will because, its more profitable to get sick and medicate, than stop the rot.

What ever happened to

The government should be afraid of the people, the people should not be afraid of the government.

Did everybody just roll over and play dead?

a reply to: bullcat
Well first off, I live in canada for now. Second, I always choose to live in the country, and stay out of the city, live in places where there is no police force. I would rather live in the middle of nowhere and not have to deal with roid raging lunatics on power trips. Most people I know who actually think like I do, also live in the country.

I am not going to fight for city folks, to a whole lot of them, I am the backwards one. City people seem to be easier to herd, and unfortunately they outnumber us at least 50 to one in most states.

I think the biggest issue, is that the public education system is garbage, and only gets worse every year. They get the kids used to being micromanaged and completely controlled and "protected" by authority figures. By the time they are grown, they are completely subservient to authority, or they are likely in the penal system and screwed for life if not.

originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: bullcat
Well first off, I live in canada for now. Second, I always choose to live in the country, and stay out of the city, live in places where there is no police force. I would rather live in the middle of nowhere and not have to deal with roid raging lunatics on power trips. Most people I know who actually think like I do, also live in the country.

I am not going to fight for city folks, to a whole lot of them, I am the backwards one. City people seem to be easier to herd, and unfortunately they outnumber us at least 50 to one in most states.

I think the biggest issue, is that the public education system is garbage, and only gets worse every year. They get the kids used to being micromanaged and completely controlled and "protected" by authority figures. By the time they are grown, they are completely subservient to authority, or they are likely in the penal system and screwed for life if not.

Education world wide is being dumbed down, I have seen this first hand over the past 15 years. Shocking really.

In a way it feels like the movie Idiocracy. I feel I can be the smartest guy in the world within 20 years really.

Shocking. Not surprising but shocking none the less.

I never thought it would happen but it is. I learnt to respect and honour past generations, they are smart.

DEFEND YOUR RIGHTS. STAND UP.

PLEASE. SAVE THE WORLD BY ACTING.

Your actions to defend your rights and way of life will protect the world from wars.

Retake your country.

By doing that you will be saving the rest of the world form tyranny.

Save us by saving yourselves.