Where is the Outrage to close Muslim bakeries for not serving Gays?

originally posted by: darkbake
When it comes to Muslims, I think they have a worse track record than Christians with how they treat gay people - like the video says, the Muslims kill people for being gay. I don't think that gets a free pass, I think that is even more messed up.

It's true that, worldwide, Islam has a worse track record. But I tend to think about the LEGAL side of things, and specifically what's happening here in the US (and other Western countries), not in the Muslim countries of the world.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: darkbake
When it comes to Muslims, I think they have a worse track record than Christians with how they treat gay people - like the video says, the Muslims kill people for being gay. I don't think that gets a free pass, I think that is even more messed up.

It's true that, worldwide, Islam has a worse track record. But I tend to think about the LEGAL side of things, and specifically what's happening here in the US (and other Western countries), not in the Muslim countries of the world.

Why is it more important:to get your cake, flowers or photographer (selfish motive in the "easy living" part of the world)
OR : saving the lives of gays who are being murdered, beheaded, lashed for just being gay (a truly noble cause that enriches the entire world if overcome).

I think the LGBT community and liberals in America have chosen.
They spend more time, energy, money, and media coverage fighting for the right to eat cake;
than they spend time, energy, money and media coverage fighting for the lives of gays worldwide.

No wonder the rest of the world hates the US, we are so selfish, self centered, and spoiled that the majority of our LBGT and liberal/progressive/Democratic Party energy and money is about getting more cake to eat rather than saving lives.

originally posted by: grandmakdw
Why is it more important:to get your cake, flowers or photographer (selfish motive in the "easy living" part of the world)
OR : saving the lives of gays who are being murdered, beheaded, lashed for just being gay (a truly noble cause that enriches the entire world if overcome).

I'm not saying it's more important. But MY interest in this issue is what's happening in MY country. I'm a non-interventionist. I believe we should settle our issues HERE before going around the world, telling everyone else how to live.

I think the LGBT community and liberals in America have chosen.
They spend more time, energy, money, and media coverage fighting for the right to eat cake;
than they spend time, energy, money and media coverage fighting for the lives of gays worldwide.

Again, my interest is in the civil rights of ALL Americans, Not in policing the world. This isn't about the "right to eat cake" and you know that. You purposely minimize the issue by couching it so. It's about the civil rights of American citizens, as protected by our Constitution... That is not an LGBT issue, nor a liberal issue. It SHOULD be a concern for everyone.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

I still contend that the LBGT activist community is selfish, self-centered, with a feeling of entitlement -
and might be non-interventionist (as you contend)
because it means actually doing something important that can save lives
but obviously they don't care at all about those lives or gay discrimnation world wide
just as the feminist left doesn't care at all about all the women living life in virtual slavery and being raped nearly daily;
because it is not our business to save lives
it is more important for us to be able to
eat cake, have flowers and become CEO's than it is to worry about
the lives of "those people, over there"; who we won't allow to sully our daily lives
with their gauche problems.

originally posted by: grandmakdw
I still contend that the LBGT activist community is selfish, self-centered, with a feeling of entitlement -

I'm certain some are, just as some right-wing Christians are selfish, self-centered, and entitled. SOME out of every group are. Your point?

and might be non-interventionist (as you contend)

I didn't say that. I said I am non-interventionist.

And while you're ragging on me for not poking my nose in the business of the world, what are you doing about the atrocities you list? Or are you just ranting against me, trying to make me feel guilty for not righting all the problems in the world?

a reply to: grandmakdw

You mean like how the conservatives don't care about the illegal immigrants who risk their lives to come to America, to escape horrible poverty, violence of drug cartels, and corrupt governments? Like how those conservatives say that it's "not our problem" to help these immigrants? You mean like that?

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: grandmakdw

You mean like how the conservatives don't care about the illegal immigrants who risk their lives to come to America, to escape horrible poverty, violence of drug cartels, and corrupt governments? Like how those conservatives say that it's "not our problem" to help these immigrants? You mean like that?

My church and many others that I know of have ESL classes
and food closets,
and job assistance for the illegal immigrants.
We pay one woman full time to help with job training.
I collect used ink cartridges from people at church
to turn into Staples to purchase the supplies for the job training.

We also have missionaries working (not evangelizing) but
building clean water tanks for homes for the poor in south america.
My church supports one family full time who does nothing
but build clean water tanks for homes and
has hired a local crew (giving jobs that keep them from the drug trade)
to help them build these clean water tanks to save lives.

So conservative Christians aren't quite the monsters the LBGT community and the liberals make us out to be.

We (my church) also has a farm that produces fresh food
that is distributed to the poor, regardless of their legal status.
We also have gleaning rights and get fresh produce for the poor.

My "old ladies group" makes bags that are filled with fresh produce for the poor.
My "old ladies group"(that I go to weekly) makes quilts for the homeless,
and my husband is in a group that feeds the homeless.
One of my closest friends makes waterproof mats
for the homeless to put the quilts on so they can sleep
without their blankets getting soaked.
My "old ladies group" also makes quilts for women
who have escaped abuse and/or a life of drugs
and alcohol who live in a home until they can get on their feet.

My "old ladies group" also makes dresses for girls in Africa
so they look like they belong to someone in a new dress.
That keeps them from being raped,
because they look like they are important and so are left alone.

My "old ladies group" is now in the process of making bags for:
1. Children in foster care to keep their belongings in
as many have to carry their things around in trash bags.
2. School supply bags that are filled in the summer and given to ALL
(even illegal) children so they go to school with the needed supplies.
Aren't we a selfish bunch who are mean to illegals and the poor.

So we conservative Christians do much more for "those people" than the liberals do who engaging in rhetoric without action.

There is a Doc in my Sunday School class
who runs the local AIDS clinic
(he is retired and does it without pay),
he also volunteers his time in the local prisons giving free medical care.

Another man in my Sunday School class
goes into the prisons and does financial responsibility classes,
how to handle finances once they are released.

Our awful horrible conservative Christian class
also purchased a car for a man who got out of prison
so he could go to his job.
We also gave him furniture for his apartment and a washer dryer.
So we conservative Christians really don't care about the poor do we?

Our church financial director's son came out as gay,
we all supported him and his family
as they went through a rough time and the man died young recently
from complications of AIDS, his funeral was in the church,
and church members visited him regularly in the hospital.
That's how awful we conservative Christians are to gay people.

We have "secret missionaries" in Arab countries
that our church helps support that help get Christians
out of those countries before they are murdered for being Christian.
Of course, you probably think that is terrible too, that we only help the Christians escape.

What is your liberal/progressive group doing?
What are your liberal friends doing to help people?
Tweeting? (how ridiculous to think that actually accomplishes anything)
I'm talking about your close circle of liberal friends,
the people you see weekly,
daily as an organized liberal or progressive activity to help the poor and oppressed.
Or are your friends more interested in tweeting and commenting on how awful conservative Christians are?

ALL of these things are real and true
and things that people I see at least once a week
are actually doing to help the poor, the illegal, the immigrant,
the oppressed in other countries,
the people who were dying from dirt water in south America.

What are your liberal friends doing, not tweeting, not protesting, not making snarky comments online, but actually doing?

edit on 6Sat, 04 Apr 2015 18:28:25 -0500pm40404pmk046 by grandmakdw because: addition format

a reply to: grandmakdw

Yes, I do volunteer work too. I also fight for amnesty for the illegals who struggled to get here to find a better life. I fight to keep them from being deported back to their hell-hole. It doesn't do much good to give them a few items of used clothing and a little food if you are just going to ship them back.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: grandmakdw

Yes, I do volunteer work too. I also fight for amnesty for the illegals who struggled to get here to find a better life. I fight to keep them from being deported back to their hell-hole. It doesn't do much good to give them a few items of used clothing and a little food if you are just going to ship them back.

But actually feeding them and clothing them isn't important?

You just "fight" for them? What does that mean? Passing out flyers? Writing legislators?

I'd rather feed and clothe them, and make sure the children have school supplies, and try and make life better in the countries they came from. I suppose that's what comes of being one of those bigoted awful conservative Christians.

Not that what you do is "bad", but I'd rather make sure they don't starve and have clothes and a job.

But we have drifted off topic.

Back to the topic at hand.
I don't see liberals/progressives doing anything that actually helps the gays who are experiencing real discrimination, who are facing death for just being gay.
I see the whole cake thing as a huge hypocrisy of the comfortable liberal's who don't want to sully their hands with those people over there.

a reply to: grandmakdw

And what do you think we should do? Send food and clothing to them, so they can be well-fed and well-clothed before they are murdered? How is that going to help them? I have already posted a link in response to one of your posts, showing how a LGBT organization was working with the U.S. government to help fight the killings of gays in the M.E.

What is your church group doing about the drug cartels in Mexico who are making the citizens there absolutely miserable? What are you doing to stop it?

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: grandmakdw

And what do you think we should do? Send food and clothing to them, so they can be well-fed and well-clothed before they are murdered? How is that going to help them? I have already posted a link in response to one of your posts, showing how a LGBT organization was working with the U.S. government to help fight the killings of gays in the M.E.

What is your church group doing about the drug cartels in Mexico who are making the citizens there absolutely miserable? What are you doing to stop it?

We don't send them food, we give them food in person. We take the clothes to Africa. We go to South America to help build clean water tanks and walk for miles in dirt to get to the factory the church runs.

I told you, creating jobs and an business in South America.
We are paying an engineer from our church to live in South America full time.
He has started a business making clean water tanks for homes.
They make the tanks and give them to the very poor and sell them
to those who can afford to pay.
The business has grown so much he has had to expand and hire
several men full time, and the business is still growing.
These men now no longer have to work the drug trade
and their families have access to clean water.

What are you or your friends doing about making
life better in South America?

I still say that liberals are more into keeping their hands clean with flyers, tweets, and posting online, rather than actually get dirty and put themselves into difficult and dangerous situations to help others. I mean really help. Not faux help that is all talk, protesting, and writing. I mean helping people actually live better lives through feeding them, clothing them, helping them get jobs, giving them transportation to jobs, physically caring for people with AIDS, sitting at the bedside of those dying of AIDS, helping women get out of abusive situations by giving them a place to live, keeping girls in Africa from being raped.

But, you know we conservative Christians really don't care and are all about oppressing others aren't we?

a reply to: grandmakdw

Food is not going to get rid of the drug cartels. Food is not going to get rid of ISIS.

Members of drug cartels are not going to give up huge profits to work manual labor jobs.

Charity work is great. Liberals and LGBT groups do plenty of charity work to help the poor and the downtrodden. But the situation in the Middle East is as complicated as the situation with the drug cartels in Mexico/S.America. There isn't a whole lot that charity work can do to solve either problem.

There are plenty of conservatives sending out flyers, tweeting and posting online too, about subjects that are important to them (you included).

You are just following the talking points spewed by Fox and the conservative websites trying to bash liberals. I'm not buying any of it.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: grandmakdw

Food is not going to get rid of the drug cartels. Food is not going to get rid of ISIS.

Members of drug cartels are not going to give up huge profits to work manual labor jobs.

Charity work is great. Liberals and LGBT groups do plenty of charity work to help the poor and the downtrodden. But the situation in the Middle East is as complicated as the situation with the drug cartels in Mexico/S.America. There isn't a whole lot that charity work can do to solve either problem.

There are plenty of conservatives sending out flyers, tweeting and posting online too, about subjects that are important to them (you included).

You are just following the talking points spewed by Fox and the conservative websites trying to bash liberals. I'm not buying any of it.

I don't watch Fox news and I hope you don't watch MSNBC.

I can clearly see that you don't know anyone personally who is doing anything concrete to make life better for others. I am not spouting any talking point. I made this observation on my own.

Yes I go online, because liberals love to tell everyone
how awful conservative Christians are.

It is my responsibility as a conservative Christian to do
all I can to stop this horrific meme that has already led to
a form of krystalnacht in the US for bakers and florists
and other Christian business owners.

The liberals are not breaking windows literally,
they are just doing all they can to drive Christians
out of business and to make them lose their jobs
because they hold a different set of values and idea
from the liberals.

Have you read about what happened that started the holocaust in WWII?
It was this kind of rhetoric and hatred that led people
to believe that Jews were so awful that the country
had to exterminate them.

This is the rhetoric I see spouted by the LGBT community
and liberals/progressives/Democrats in general.

As a Christian it is my duty not to do what the Jews did,
keep quiet, until they come for me.
You may think I am paranoid,
no
I am protecting my own from the ugly rhetoric
that has historically turned into real danger.

I know that no matter what I say you will think
I am the worst person to walk the earth because I am a conservative Christian.
No matter what I or my fellow Christians do to help others,
which is much much more than any person you know
personally does to help others, obviously,
you will think I am some sort of monster and
tell everyone you can how terrible Christians are.

Go ahead and tell me I'm paranoid, but your rhetoric is dangerous -
history tells me this is true - it is no talking point -
as long as people on ATS call Christians terrible, evil, awful things,
I will fight back online and tell of how we love
and help others and are not the monsters we are made out to be.

Until you have many close friends who actually go out and help others,
all over the world,
go and feed the hungry,
take clothes to children to keep them from being raped,
give shelter and jobs to women who are abused,
work a volunteer farm to feed the hungry,
make blankets and portable sleeping mats for the homeless,
hold the hands in the hospital of people dying of AIDS,
are the only doctor around who will work exclusively with AIDS patients.
(granted I go to a mega church and my sunday school class has 60 in it,
so I know alot of Christians personally, up close and weekly, bi-weekly)

Until you do for for the world more than gripe and snark,
stop reviling Christians, you are committing verbal krystalnacht,
until you personally do and have close friends who do
actually make the world a better place,
then sitting on your bum and snarking,
you are verbally doing what the Germans who ran around smashing did
windows because they didn't like someones religion, values, ideas.

a reply to: grandmakdw

You can do (or claim to do) a million good things for people, but if you're a bigot while doing these things then you're still a bigot.

It doesn't excuse it, and comparing yourselves to the Jews during the holocaust because people are standing up to your bigotry and prejudice is just......kinda pathetic.

a reply to: grandmakdw

All those good things correcting the horrors in the world that God has created, and yet you want to make a stand about someones sexual orientation.

Bizarre.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: grandmakdw

You mean like how the conservatives don't care about the illegal immigrants who risk their lives to come to America, to escape horrible poverty, violence of drug cartels, and corrupt governments? Like how those conservatives say that it's "not our problem" to help these immigrants? You mean like that?

that right there is a crock of #. we have people living in abject poverty in our own cities who aren't getting sufficient help and who, as a resolution to their problems, are forced to join violent gangs just to survive, and in turn, as their medical treatment, are stuffed in prisons where they are made into real slaves.

meanwhile, democrats who want a bigger voting base and neocons who want more cheap labor, are victimizing our own minority citizens by the millions by inviting more and more people from countries that should've figured this # out a long time ago, and treated their own poor humanely

a reply to: grandmakdw

You mean making the world a better place by turning away two gays who only want to officially commit to each other with love? You mean making the world a better place by trying to get illegals shipped back to their hell-holes? You mean making the world a better place by harassing and protesting a American-Muslim political organization that gathered at the Austin capitol to praise America? You mean making the world a better place by preaching to your congregation that gays should be executed?

All that is being asked of conservative Christians is that they follow the laws of their state/country. If the laws in your state say that as the owner of a public business, you cannot refuse the same product or service to one group that you sell to everyone else, then that is what we expect of you. We expect that of everyone.

All that is being asked of conservative Christians is that they have enough compassion for illegals to allow them refuge in one of the richest and most powerful countries in the world.

All that is being asked of conservative Christians is that they allow law-abiding, peaceful Muslims the right to live in this country without being made to feel like they are criminals.

All that is being asked of conservative Christians is that they stop trying to take away gay citizens' civil right to get a marriage license by the state in which they live.

You may say, "well, I don't do any of those things." Well, plenty of conservative Christians do. I don't bash all Christians either, nor am I advocating concentration camps and annihilation of all Christians. So don't accuse me, a liberal, of actions that I am not guilty of.

a reply to: undo

The reason why the poor are forced to join violent gangs is because conservatives/Republicans fight to disallow funding that will help them.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: undo

The reason why the poor are forced to join violent gangs is because conservatives/Republicans fight to disallow funding that will help them.

bull#. our nation collects enough in taxes to pave the streets of every major city in gold with minorities and inner city poor enjoying the same benefits as the rest of society and to the extent that is necessary to lift them out of the vicious cycle, but the marxists need an engine of social justice to unleash on the rest of the country, so they deliberately withhold and instead use the money for world domination (democracy must be forced on the planet! well, actually it's totalitarianism dressed up in marxist robes). just wait, the first people they get rid of after they slaughter their rivals, are the people who helped them get there .

originally posted by: undo

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: undo

The reason why the poor are forced to join violent gangs is because conservatives/Republicans fight to disallow funding that will help them.

bull#. our nation collects enough in taxes to pave the streets of every major city in gold with minorities and inner city poor enjoying the same benefits as the rest of society and to the extent that is necessary to lift them out of the vicious cycle, but the marxists need an engine of social justice to unleash on the rest of the country, so they deliberately withhold and instead use the money for world domination (democracy must be forced on the planet! well, actually it's totalitarianism dressed up in marxist robes). just wait, the first people they get rid of after they slaughter their rivals, are the people who helped them get there .

Prove it. Prove that liberals/Democrats are purposefully withholding money to the poor.

Because I CAN prove to you that Conservatives/Republicans fight to withhold funding that would go to helping them.