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US Navy Wouldn't Last a Week in WW3

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posted on Apr, 5 2015 @ 05:26 PM
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a reply to: Iwinder

What you get if your country is stupid enough to buy second hand crap from the cold war


I wouldn’t want to buy second hand American stuff if its seen heavy use over many decades.
edit on 5-4-2015 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 5 2015 @ 05:37 PM
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originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: Iwinder

What you get if your country is stupid enough to buy second hand crap from the cold war


Agreed but my point is that it is not just Russian subs that may not be 100%. And I have yet to see a post about the Chinese sub fleet that points out any faults. That is where the major issue is in my opinion. Nobody seems to know what they actually have for a sub fleet and what they can do. Rest assured those subs will be high tech for computers and maybe low tech in the western worlds eyes.

It's dangerous to assume we are being told what is really what at this moment. The Chinese are very silent but yet the West is very loud......"It is the quiet guy in the corner you have to worry about and not the loud mouth making threats"
I quoted the full post above but now there is an edit.......on that post above for the record
Regards, Iwinder
edit on 5-4-2015 by Iwinder because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 5 2015 @ 05:51 PM
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a reply to: Iwinder

They don't have faults, they don't have the training for long deployments. They focused on regional conflicts until recently, not on going across the Pacific and operating for months at a time.



posted on Apr, 5 2015 @ 06:27 PM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Iwinder

They don't have faults, they don't have the training for long deployments. They focused on regional conflicts until recently, not on going across the Pacific and operating for months at a time.


Where are you getting your information from Zaph? Perhaps you could post a link about the Chinese not having the training for long deployments.....I am asking because when the Rubber sub popped up the USA had no idea they even existed. And we are talking years and years ago.

Regards, Iwinder



posted on Apr, 5 2015 @ 06:38 PM
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a reply to: Iwinder

Of course they knew they existed. If you think that the US hasn't been keeping an eye on the Chinese since they went to a Communist government, then you better think again. They may not know every single detail of what's happening in China, but you better believe they keep an eye on things like military systems.

China has recently more or less permanently stationed a small force in the Gulf of Aden on an antipiracy patrol, and in 2013 deployed to South America for the first time in history. They have a limited logistical force to travel with the ships and refuel them. That limits the deployments that they can do with conventional forces. The only nuclear powered ships they have are their submarine fleet, some of which are missile subs, which they appear to keep fairly close to home.

It's there in books you can find online. They've improved their ability to deploy long range, but a conventional sub needs submarine tenders and logistical support if it's going to be deployed long distance, for any length of time.



posted on Apr, 5 2015 @ 06:51 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58



The only nuclear powered ships they have are their submarine fleet, some of which are missile subs, which they appear to keep fairly close to home.


They may appear to keep the Nuclear subs close to home but how do we know this? As we all know now it does not have to be Nuclear to be fatal hmmmm.

I would hazard a guess that the Chinese are cranking out a rubber sub every week or less for that matter, Money is no issue for them right now compared to the West they are in fantastic financial shape.
Now if they have been doing that for the past 10 years or so there is an awful lot of rubber subs out there at this moment. As we both know crew members are a dime a dozen.
No link to the information about the Chinese not going deep water?

Regards, Iwinder



posted on Apr, 5 2015 @ 06:52 PM
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a reply to: elysiumfire

YOu do know that multiple Warhead detonations do not pile up on each other if detonated withing minutes of each other correct?



posted on Apr, 5 2015 @ 06:54 PM
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originally posted by: Iwinder

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: Iwinder

What you get if your country is stupid enough to buy second hand crap from the cold war


Agreed but my point is that it is not just Russian subs that may not be 100%. And I have yet to see a post about the Chinese sub fleet that points out any faults. That is where the major issue is in my opinion. Nobody seems to know what they actually have for a sub fleet and what they can do. Rest assured those subs will be high tech for computers and maybe low tech in the western worlds eyes.

It's dangerous to assume we are being told what is really what at this moment. The Chinese are very silent but yet the West is very loud......"It is the quiet guy in the corner you have to worry about and not the loud mouth making threats"
I quoted the full post above but now there is an edit.......on that post above for the record
Regards, Iwinder


China is a limited threat to the US huge threat to Japan however. Militarily speaking China could not mount a defense without their army and they don't have the means to deploy them overseas in numbers to matter. You want to know why China is trying to build up their military it's not because the US. It's because they want to control Asia and see anyone else who has these aspirations as a threat. Russia has been increasing their military presence in the area and China is putting up the keep out sign.



posted on Apr, 5 2015 @ 07:06 PM
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a reply to: Iwinder

Information on their deployments isn't always easy to find. A lot of it comes from books, some comes from word of mouth. But if you look you can find it.

They're not building many diesel subs. They bought quite a few from Russia, and are in the process of getting rid of their Diesel fleet in place of a nuclear sub fleet.

The Type 039 was based on a Romeo class Russian submarine, and was the first designed and built within China. Between the Type 039, the 039G, and the 039G1 they built 13, seven are still in service. It was a Type 039 that came up near the Kitty Hawk, while she was between Taiwan and Japan. Where it happened was still fairly close to China and well within what would be considered brown water.

The Type 039A (also known as the Type 041) was their first AIP boat, that entered service in 2008. There are 13 of them in service.

The Kilo was purchased from Russia. They bought 2 Kilo, and 10 Improved Kilo class. The Kilo was designed for shallow water anti-shipping operations.

The Type 035 (also known as the Type 033) was the actual Romeo class submarine from Russia. They had as many as 84 through the years, but currently have 13 for training purposes.

The Type 091 was their first nuclear submarine. Two have been decommissioned, leaving three.

The Type 093 is replacing the 091. There are two variants of it. There are as many as five in service.

The Type 095 is their new boat. It entered sea trials in 2013.
edit on 4/5/2015 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 6 2015 @ 01:06 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

For some reason, I do not believe in Submarine warfare. They are too big and too slow moving. Also the technology has gotten too advanced for the subs to evade detection and tracking. Although this might also be a reverse statement meaning Subs have gotten too clever to evade detection technology etc.

I think US has already long time ago installed sensors system name SOSUS that tells the HQ if any Sub or ship has passed the area. That is like having a camera in the mall which will help in catching a person. On the reverse side, Soviets had through espionage gotten the locations of these sensors and learned how to avoid them.

Experts might be able tell more if Submarines are going to increase in value to any country or disappear from the utility radar.



posted on Apr, 6 2015 @ 01:09 PM
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originally posted by: Hoosierdaddy71
So you read an article from Russia insider and it said russia would sink the U.S. navy in a week....
Let that sink in a minute. Pardon the pun.

Can't wait to hear what North Korea weekly has to say about it..


The state of Russian Naval forces is pretty bad. They've been working to get their land forces up moreso due to the overland threat axis, but both in men and materiel were pretty decimated post the fall of the Soviet Union. They're not ready for WW3 yet.



"I don't know what WW3 will be fought with, but I do know that WW4 will be fought with sticks and stones. "



posted on Apr, 6 2015 @ 01:09 PM
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a reply to: victor7

Subs and stealth are both constantly evolving, as are the detection systems. Modern subs are much harder to detect, as they've gone from a propeller to a pump jet for propulsion.



posted on Apr, 6 2015 @ 04:42 PM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Iwinder

Information on their deployments isn't always easy to find. A lot of it comes from books, some comes from word of mouth. But if you look you can find it.

They're not building many diesel subs. They bought quite a few from Russia, and are in the process of getting rid of their Diesel fleet in place of a nuclear sub fleet.

The Type 039 was based on a Romeo class Russian submarine, and was the first designed and built within China. Between the Type 039, the 039G, and the 039G1 they built 13, seven are still in service. It was a Type 039 that came up near the Kitty Hawk, while she was between Taiwan and Japan. Where it happened was still fairly close to China and well within what would be considered brown water.

The Type 039A (also known as the Type 041) was their first AIP boat, that entered service in 2008. There are 13 of them in service.

The Kilo was purchased from Russia. They bought 2 Kilo, and 10 Improved Kilo class. The Kilo was designed for shallow water anti-shipping operations.

The Type 035 (also known as the Type 033) was the actual Romeo class submarine from Russia. They had as many as 84 through the years, but currently have 13 for training purposes.

The Type 091 was their first nuclear submarine. Two have been decommissioned, leaving three.

The Type 093 is replacing the 091. There are two variants of it. There are as many as five in service.

The Type 095 is their new boat. It entered sea trials in 2013.

Wonderful post Zaph!, just chocked full of very good information. Thank you for those stats and facts.
Just this one thing for a bitch,
" It was a Type 039 that came up near the Kitty Hawk, while she was between Taiwan and Japan."
It actually came up within easy killing range.

Regards, Iwinder
edit on 6-4-2015 by Iwinder because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 6 2015 @ 04:46 PM
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a reply to: Iwinder

Hence the "near". The range was never published. And it wasn't disputed that it was that close.



posted on Apr, 6 2015 @ 04:56 PM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: victor7

Subs and stealth are both constantly evolving, as are the detection systems. Modern subs are much harder to detect, as they've gone from a propeller to a pump jet for propulsion.


That is new information to me, And by golly that is very cool just thinking about it makes me wonder. Would they still be quieter with that "pump jet" system if they are on the surface?

So I guess the screw signatures are going to be history soon....at least for subs is that a good guesstimate?
That sure would change the game all right.

Thanks for the new info.
Regards, Iwinder



posted on Apr, 6 2015 @ 04:58 PM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Iwinder

Hence the "near". The range was never published. And it wasn't disputed that it was that close.


Understood and acknowledged.
Regards, Iwinder



posted on Apr, 6 2015 @ 05:01 PM
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a reply to: Iwinder

They're much quieter in all aspects of sailing. It completely removes the cavitation noise from the screw. All that's left is the water sliding along the hull when they're on the surface, and that could be just about anything.



posted on Apr, 6 2015 @ 05:38 PM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Iwinder

They're much quieter in all aspects of sailing. It completely removes the cavitation noise from the screw. All that's left is the water sliding along the hull when they're on the surface, and that could be just about anything.


Not too good for the Carrier Groups then? This is bad and good news I guess it kinda depends on how you look at the situation.
With that technology I would think subs are the only way to go for attacking. It kind of nullifies the idea of a destroyer or a Cruiser for that matter.
Very interesting how fast the rules of the game are changing. Thanks for posting the above.
Regards, Iwinder



posted on Apr, 6 2015 @ 05:44 PM
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a reply to: Iwinder

No, because at the same time sonar has improved a great deal too. A good enough sonar can still find them through plant noises, which the diesel subs don't have.



posted on Apr, 6 2015 @ 08:22 PM
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The greatest weapon of all is economic power, and now that we have successfully made our selves completely dependent on one another (the US, the developed countries of Asia, Europe), no such war will occur. Long before anyone could proclaim victory the populations would be dying from lack of food, from lack of energy, or lack of medicines. Society would completely break down and we would be back to the Dark Ages within a few years, if not months. Globalism is an economic disaster in many ways for more developed nations, but it has one benefit that outweighs all the negatives - peace. We literally cannot survive without one another.



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