North Korea Thinks That We Are About To Nuke Them

It�s weird that u allways wish to someone nuke u first so you wouldn�t have to frame up some sort of excuse to nuke them. This post should be about countries that DON`T think you�re gonna nuke�m to a giant parking lot. Nukes have developed so much that if someday in future, a nuke is launched with a mission to hit a country, there will be 100 nukes flying all over world hitting everywhere. Let�s hope that day will never come.
-ap

I respect your optimism ChrisRT! I did read somewhere but dont have a link =( that China had a sat killer. It would take out any enemy sat with eletronic warfare. If any has a link please post it. Their tech ability is far more advanced then we would give them credit. I would not really care one way or the other if not for the fact of the current US reputation and currency problems , etc ... Also I have a link to a possible war scenario but of course it is from rense.com ... /wave seekerof! lol j/k =P It is a interesting read nonetheless.

*edit* Nkorea war link my bad.


www.rense.com...


[edit on 20-12-2004 by morgion]

Maybe, maybe not... I believe only the U.S. has advanced EW stations so we would be the first if not the only to pick up the launches. From next year on part of the missile defense systems will be online. Most notably the Aiges cruisers; there will be some line of defense if they are placed in the theater of action...

We are also developing systems to destroy enemy satellites and if executed right would disable their offensive capabilities.

The way it should work out in 2010 is that if someone where to launch a nuke-unauthorized training dummy our missile defense systems (whatever one needed) would go into action. At the same time we destroy their, or whomever need be satellites and ask questions or and turn them into glassworks.

So in the end let�s hope the STARWARS program works well so if any nukes are launched including ours we stand a good chance at shooting down even ours...

I respect your optimism ChrisRT! I did read somewhere but dont have a link =( that China had a sat killer. It would take out any enemy sat with eletronic warfare. If any has a link please post it. Their tech ability is far more advanced then we would give them credit. I would not really care one way or the other if not for the fact of the current US reputation and currency problems , etc ... Also I have a link to a possible war scenario but of course it is from rense.com ... /wave seekerof! lol j/k =P It is a interesting read nonetheless.

Chinas antis at weapon is a barrage of computer hackers and a little propaganda. Our anti-satellite weapons are ASMs placed on F-15s, ground based ARMY lasers and actual satellites based in Earth orbit in a few years that destroy other satellites. We have the upper hand.
And yes, China deserves a little more credit but they are still some 25-30 years behind us, and yes they are advancing but so are we at an ever increasing rate due to the threats we see.


And remember, if worse comes to worse there is room for multiple superpowers as there has been in the past. They are also sustainable if an arms� race isn�t taking place�


If you ever find that link please post it. I will read up on whatever is new in 5 or so hours...
Later.

[edit on 20-12-2004 by ChrisRT]

There is not much you can do when you have hundreds of missiles assaulting your missile defense system. And if you introduce the sunburn in multiples you got major problems for the carriers , etc ... correct me if Im wrong =P

You do, and we will be developing defenses to counter them. We will begin installing lasers on our fighters in 2013 so I believe that the lasers will play a role in destroying some of those antiship missiles.

And yes, a few hundred ICBMs/MIRVS in flight is ONE HELL OF A PROBLEM! but with so many systems in place we might stand a chance at destroying the bunch of them. PAC-3s, Aiges, ABL, satellites, and other electronic warfare measures. This is of course if they are in place at the right time, however, don�t get me wrong people will die.

The problem is who in the heck is stupid enough to start a nuclear war? It�s surely all over you them and most likely many others.

Oh, one thing. Even if the enemy has powerful antiship missiles they are no use with no fighters. The Airforce may take lead role (once again) and achieve air dominance before any of those fighters could be tasked with antiship strikes.

I dont know how realiable the link I posted was but assuming it was true then the air dominance would be deminished a bit. They believe that we will come for them eventually so why shouldnt they preempt? They of course have to weigh the consequences but with the dollar/reputation/economic problem that makes it a bit interesting in the long run.

One thing is for certain though the koreans , russians , china , etc ... will be playing hard ball if this scenario would happen ; suicide bombing aircraft , etc ... should not be ruled out or anything else for that matter. Im not trying to bash the US I used to love it ; I was born and raised here but I have become dissatisfied with the way it is run of late. Im just trying to say never underestimate the enemy even in peacetimes. The US is very great but Im afraid her time has come =(

I think EVERYONE is scared the US might "pre-emptively" nuke them. What with the blood thirsty pirates at the helm in Washington and all..

Originally posted by aape
It�s weird that u allways wish to someone nuke u first so you wouldn�t have to frame up some sort of excuse to nuke them. This post should be about countries that DON`T think you�re gonna nuke�m to a giant parking lot. Nukes have developed so much that if someday in future, a nuke is launched with a mission to hit a country, there will be 100 nukes flying all over world hitting everywhere. Let�s hope that day will never come.
-ap

Amen !

I hope America's leader/s are never stupid enough to nuke anyone.
Or anyone elses leader/s either !

[edit on 103131p://401210 by instar]

BTW,

Remember everyone, the US did not start a build up in the area untill N Korea broke their agreements and entered the reactor and took to fuel rods and turned them into weapons and threated the US and Japan.

They just rethreatened Japan with war if they put econ santions into place-what did they think we would do?

This is not Clinton who will give them everything they want..

Honestly-I hope they do something stupid like attack Japan, so then the US will bomb them back to the stone age and end this once and for all.

Crikey, I hope your never the president Mr Monsoon!

Originally posted by morgion
There is not much you can do when you have hundreds of missiles assaulting your missile defense system. And if you introduce the sunburn in multiples you got major problems for the carriers , etc ... correct me if Im wrong =P

I don't think it's technologically feasable to send a barrage of nukes because of blast and EMP effects. You wouldn't send two nukes to one spot is what I mean, or near each other because the blast of one would interupt the function of the other. I think it would have to be a 'phased' attack, waves until it's "safe" to send the next one in. Just guessing as to the attack strategy, what do you think?

[edit on 20-12-2004 by Tuatara]

Im just trying to say never underestimate the enemy even in peacetimes. The US is very great but Im afraid her time has come =(

What peace times? There is a cold war going on between the U.S. and China. Many already acknowledge that.
Remember this, the country with the strongest economy will always emerge victorious in a conventional fight between two large nations. And right now, and for the foreseeable future the U.S. economy utterly destroys the Chinese economy.
I don't know why you, and many others keep raving about the end of the U.S. glory days?. Our economy is bringing in more GDP then ever before... The time to worry is when we stop spending $500 Billion a year on the military alone and spend the amount of only $50 billion like the countries just under us.

Do note that is the U.S. where to ever 'fall' the world would go with it. We make up an irreplaceable part of the world economy and when we start ailing the whole world starts ailing. We ARENT going anywhere anytime soon. Our economy is far more powerful then any other countries, and is ever growing.

I think i know what has your head all twisted up. You have been watching and reading the news about the economy? Sure, its a little weak but it is still growing at a health rate. I'll leave it to you to put 2 and 2 together.

If you are they type that worry about civil rights then I urge you to take a look at Chinas situation. The people are silenced, killed for stealing gas, unable to speak freely, unable to speak freely even on the internet, and fed pure propaganda. Who has it worse? Many studies suggest that it wont be the unsustainable, inflates, corrupted, and unstable economy that China implodes on but its horrifying civil liberties.

We simply aren�t going anywhere! Deal with it please. It stresses me our to speak with someone that is ill informed and maintain their stance on the matter... I�m not feeding you bullcrap, these are hardcore facts. We aren�t going anywhere! Go out and grab an ice cr�me cone, ease up.

I don't think it's technologically feasible to send a barrage of nukes because of blast and EMP effects. You wouldn't send two nukes to one spot is what I mean, or near each other because the blast of one would interrupt the function of the other. I think it would have to be a 'phased' attack, waves until it's "safe" to send the next one in. Just guessing as to the attack strategy, what do you think?

If this stands true about the other ICBMs then they are hardened against EMP effects. So it would probably be possible to send a barrage of them If you�re countries communications where in top notch and you�re ICBMs actually work.

Here you are again bashing the US and either apologizing for our country's enemies or making a case for appeasement.

As I've stated many times, challenges require strength of character and sometimes the military. In our county's history we were blessed to have leaders that stood up to tyranny and adversity - and we survived as a nation.

Imagine where we'd be now if leaders like Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt and others would have said instead, "Gee, I don't know. Those other countries look pretty scary. Maybe we should just try being nice to them instead?"




[edit on 12/20/2004 by centurion1211]

Originally posted by centurion1211
Here you are again bashing the US and either apologizing for our country's enemies or making a case for appeasement.

Alright, I'm getting sick of this. Did you bother to read my first post? Look man, in case you didn't read it, I presented an article with a link. Then I presented 4 points of view from other links that I had read. Then I asked your guys opinion on how I was supposed to interpret the KCNA article in light of the other 4 viewpoints. I seeked opinions. And so far I haven't gotten a single response to the point, other than FredT's, who at least tried. I've never used the ignore button before, but it's got your name, cent, all over it with another comment like that.

I don't know where you get off accusing me of such utter BS. Go back and read the first post, understand what I was asking for, and then how about instead of hijacking the thread, you actually respond to my request for clarification and/or insight? Because that's all it was, a request for more input. I bashed no one, and I will not sit here and take your crap. With recent talk of a Washington media psy-ops, I am getting very concerned about who exactly to trust when it comes to news sources. My non-ATSNN threads in the future will be more like this one, trying to seek a more informed viewpoint from several sources, including the opinions here, instead of just taking any one as the truth. Now I don't know what more you want from me. When I dive into a thread, I at least extend the respect to the other authors in the thread of reading ALL posts. Never once have I just seen a title, disregarded the other posts, and then hit the reply button. More than I can say for you.

I posted this in another thread, but it has a relevence to this discussion.

earth lights

Look at Noth Korea in that photo of earth lights as seen from space. It is almost entirely dark.

The majority of North Korea is still in the dark ages.*
















*

Originally posted by ChrisRT
Kim Jong's scalp has been done to death... Have there been any Ivan (in its current state)-U.S.A. discussions yet?

It's been done but I didn't follow it too closely. Russia has the numbers and the technology to pull off a costly upset, except that I dont think America would underestimate Russia enough to walk into something like that. Russia's best bet to make a powerplay on the United States would be to restore its submarine and aircraft programs to superpower status and bide their time until a large number of American targets presented themselves. A suicide attack by submarine forces to destroy as many (preferably all) American and British aircraft carriers is a must.
Combine that with a surprise airborne assault on Iceland and Greenland (backed by armor-transporting hovercraft concealed in modified commercial ships) and you can establish airbases in the North Atlantic for a "Red Storm Rising" scenario to control access to Europe.

Russia versus the EU (minus the UK) would be just about a fair fight, although one I think Russia would win. The problem is that unless China will go for this war, America can just 'avoid the noid' take the Eastern approach which does many good things for America: 1. Defeats Russia. 2. Creates a new American sphere of influence North of China and North Korea. 3. Let's Europeans do most of the dying in this war.

China wouldn't go for this war unless they had their own reasons for wanting war with America. China could turn this scenario into a major political victory by backing the allies and making it a UN effort in exchange for privilidges in the rebuilding of Russia (since they are the only 3rd party participating).
So in the end, Russia loses this war from the East, either courtesy of USA or PRC.


I ran a Russian rebirth scenario in my favorite wargame once though, and I was able to pull it off- primarily by knowing when not to mess with NATO.
Starting in 2004:
I framed Turkey for assassinations and terrorism in occupied Iraq as well as in Russia for over a year until NATO expelled them and America declared war on them. I declared war too and invaded first, conquering Turkey.
With Turkey and all subsequent conquests, I improved their militaries and economies with some key building while gutting their secret service, then I freed them and rigged the elections to keep secret control.

By the end of 2005 I had rebuilt the USSR by making economic deals and arms sales to former members. I also succeeded in rigging the elections in Austria. I had also made great progress in improving the Russian agriculture industry by changing land allocations, funding research, and lowering taxes. I paid for this with arms sales in the middle east. NATO was none too pleased but took no action, besides raising political pressure.

In 2006 I sent Russian forces to occupy Somalia and rebuild that nation as a democracy: then I rigged their elections. At the same time I started secretly funding rebels and sponsoring terrorism in Ethiopia. I began framing Yugoslavia for sponsoring terrorism in Soviet nations and Turkey.

In 2007 I invaded Yugoslavia and created a puppet state. I gave them many of my 50s and 60s vintage military units and replaced those with modern ones.

In 2008 I turned my attention to the Russian oil industry for research and development funding. I reduced taxes a little further as grain and meat sales to my allies created new income.
Ethiopia finally fell into anarchy after the past two years of intelligence operations against them. Russian forces from Somalia intervened and created a puppet state. I then began improving Russian relations with Sudan by making economic deals and selling them military technology.

In 2009-2010 I sponsored rebels and terrorism in Egypt and framed Sudan for several terrorist attacks on Egypt. I raised political pressure on Sudan but continued to deal with them. Finally I sold Sudan a pair of Victor I class submarines armed with conventional cruise missiles. I then launched cruise missiles on egypt via sub and severed ties to Sudan. Egypt invaded Sudan and conquered them.

In 2010 I framed Iran for a series of terrorist attacks in Saudi Arabia then used stealth aircraft to attack Iranian troops. Iran blamed Saudi Arabia and invaded, conquering Saudi Arabia.

In 2011 I was caught attempting to rig elections in Italy. Most of NATO severred ties with me. I used submarines and stealth aircraft as well as patrol boats Ethiopia to make a series of minor attacks on both Egypt/Sudan and Iran/Saudi Arabia. Relations between the two sides began to darken. I began selling technology and weapons to Iran and raising political pressure on Egypt.

In 2012 I gave mobile strategic missiles to Iran then destroyed those with Stealth aircraft. Iran blamed Egypt and attacked. After a long and costly war, Egypt had conquered Saudi Arabia and Iran had accepted my proposal for an alliance. Russian forces invaded Egypt. Russia quickly freed Saudi Arabia, making it a puppet state and allowing it to continue business as usual. Egypt and Sudan were kept under direct control.

In 2013 I cut back nation building programs and stepped up research on weapons systems in Russia while producing a new line of military units and giving older but still effective ones to allies.

In 2014 I freed Egypt and made them a puppet. I remilitarized them and made them attack Sudan. I beat them back out of Sudan and signed a ceasefire with them.

In 2015 I made Egypt invade Libya, Chad, and Tunisia.

In 2016 Egypt invaded Algeria and Cental African Republic and Congo (not dem rep of).

Until 2020 Egypt modernized and rebuilt its military, dealing heavily with Russia.

In 2020 Russia framed Greece for a series of political assassinations in Yugoslavia and then for attempting to rig elections. Russian stealth aircraft made minor attacks in Greece. Greece invaded Yugoslavia and NATO severed ties to Greece. Soviet forces conquered Greece.

In 2021 Russia launched a series of submarine attacks on Cuba. Cuba declared war on the United States and was conquered by the US. Mexico severed relations with the United States.

In 2022 Russia destabilized the government of Mexico. Russian subs and stealth aircraft made false flag ops in Mexico, framing America. America blamed Mexican rebels for this and invaded Mexico.

In 2023 Russia began destabilizing the government of Canada

By 2026 Several canadian cities were out of government control and a small rebellion had grown. Russian stealth planes made ops in Canada. Canada did not respond against anyone.

In 2027 Russian agents framed the USA for attempting to rig Canadian elections. Canada declared war on USA. USA invaded Canada. NATO severed ties to the USA.

In 2028 Soviet and Egyptian Forces invaded Europe, quickly conquering all but England. America declared war, but had lost the right to maintain troops in Europe and was unable to quickly respond. Russian offensives ceased and a cease fire was arranged.

^^^ Interesting, even if a bit in the air...

I was reading chomskys Hedgemony or Survival...


Interesting point made by Mr. Chomsky was this, if there was a lesson to be learned from Iraq by small, US targeted states it that you need to have WMD as a deterrant.
The US won't mess with N Korea as long as it continues to posture like this.
As soon as they disarm. the US denies they have and claims a national security threat then "preemptively" invades, just like Iraq.

They will only attack a disarmed country, too many bodybags are bad news at home

[edit on 21/12/2004 by Corinthas]

They will only attack a disarmed country, too many bodybags are bad news at home

You sound like that is a bad thing. That is how one fights a war until someone actually thinks for once and sees what our newfound tactic is...

You actually want them to stay armed and we go in? You are probably in a country that would be fighting along side the U.S. in such a war. You wouldn�t want to fight them if they where armed with anything more then some Ak-47s, no?
It's best for everyone if they did disarm as if they where to fire at us we would utterly destroy them and while we where at it a stray missile or two may just hit Beijing... Less die when we don�t have to use unspeakable force because the other man wanted to do the same...

Anyone who has sympathy for North Korea is a fool�

It's best for everyone to disarm ChrisRT?!?!

Surely thats every one except the noble and uncorrupted US of A ?

Who do you think we are? The US is the biggest "rogue state" EVER!

You think people who sympathize with NKorea are fools, how about those who sympathize with the US? They must be Cretins and Imbeciles!!!