It's Starting--> Indiana Christian Pizzeria ATTACKED by gay lobby

a reply to: NavyDoc

Okay...now think hard and try to see what point you just made for me. Everybody else in the thread right now can see it. Connect the dots...that's right...think about it and it'll come to you...

Uh ok? I have never been against the freedom of speech? Are you saying that since I support Westboro Baptist church belief in hating gay people and they should be killed and burn in hell I support that as well?

Again what does freedom of speech have to do with businesses?

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: NavyDoc

Okay...now think hard and try to see what point you just made for me. Everybody else in the thread right now can see it. Connect the dots...that's right...think about it and it'll come to you...

Uh ok? I have never been against the freedom of speech? Again what are you on? Let it wear off. Are you saying that since I support Westboro Baptist church belief in hating gay people and they should be killed and burn in hell I support that as well?

Again what does freedom of speech have to do with businesses?

You really do have trouble with abstract thought and connecting related concepts, don't you? Think about it some more...

You made a very important point for me and I really, really, really want you to get it on your own. Please think about it very slowly...

a reply to: NavyDoc

Ok explain to me then.

[edit]
BTW this is another ad hominem attack as predicted.

You really do have trouble with abstract thought and connecting related concepts, don't you?

Quit attacking the person. You know nothing about me.

a reply to: Deaf Alien

That's not cool to suggest he is 'on something' just because you refuse to get his point. He's explained now repeatedly over several pages. I'd consider this a lost cause at this point, sheesh.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: NavyDoc

Ok explain to me then.

Ever hear of the Socratic method? If not, look it up. Lessons are so much more valuable if one can sort it out themself. Let me give you the rest of the night to think about it and see if you can see the point you've made for me and we can resume tomorrow, okay?

a reply to: NavyDoc

Let me give you the rest of the night to think about it and see if you can see the point you've made for me.

In another word you can't explain.

a reply to: Wookiep

That's not cool to suggest he is 'on something' just because you refuse to get his point.

OK I apologize about that.

However he is the one who said that I am against the freedom of speech. Quote me where I ever said that.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: NavyDoc

Let me give you the rest of the night to think about it and see if you can see the point you've made for me.

In another word you can't explain.

I've explained it. The answer is right in front of you. Think on it, sleep on it, it will come. Everybody else got it, you will too.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: Wookiep

That's not cool to suggest he is 'on something' just because you refuse to get his point.

OK I apologize about that.

However he is the one who said that I am against the freedom of speech. Quote me where I ever said that.

See again with the concrete thinking. You have to look beyond the literal. You made a HUGE point for me... One that took me several pages to lead you to. Think hard.

a reply to: Wookiep

He's explained now repeatedly over several pages.

Yes he have explained repeatedly over several pages how he supports the business owners right to discriminate but he doesn't support discrimination.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: NavyDoc

Ok explain to me then.

[edit]
BTW this is another ad hominem attack as predicted.

You really do have trouble with abstract thought and connecting related concepts, don't you?

Quit attacking the person. You know nothing about me.

That's not an attack, that's an observation that you are struggling with piecing together concepts. You are this close...think of what I said and then think about what you said and think about the patterns...



It is 01:15 in the morning. Sleep on it. It will come to you.

a reply to: NavyDoc

Sleep on it. It will come to you.

It already came to me.

You support the business owners' right to discriminate.
You do not support discrimination.

Your solution will not work in some areas (let businesses do what they want to do)

That's not an attack

Yes that is an attack. You said I have trouble with abstract thought. You know nothing of me.

a reply to: xuenchen

And the left doesn't care about the Muslim businesses who do the same thing.

Some of you posters ought to be ashamed of yourselves.
It's like you want to go back to pre-civil rights era and allow everyone to have signs up saying "No gays, no coloreds" etc - all in the name of FREEEEEDOM (shouted in a blood-curdling, Braveheartesque manner)
Well to be quite honest with you folks, we don't want that - the vast majority of decent, compassionate, considerate and moral people are quite happy to get on with everyone in daily life, trade, serve, wait on, pamper, treat, fix, massage or rescue ANYONE - regardless of their race, sexual orientation or any other "difference"

Some of you people do not belong in a modern, civilized era.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: xuenchen

And the left doesn't care about the Muslim businesses who do the same thing.

This isn't a left/right issue.
Its a decency and civil issue.
Wanting to not serve people based on their sexual orientation is neither decent nor civil.
Keep it in the church or at home.

Simple.

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Any law that protects people's rights I will fight for, our rights as citizens in this country are the most important thing we have and I will fight to the death for them..

our rights make this country the best place on earth to live, and the reason there are people who willingly give everything they have and risk even their life to get here for the chance to live here. It's for freedom, a freedom which can be found no where else on earth.

You all act as if these rights are trifle to you.... they are worth dying for to me.

That said, those who hold these beliefs do not have to justify their beliefs to you... they simply have to have them, a Muslim doesn't have to prove to you his religion or why he accepts those ahadith about pork to refuse to handle a pork product... they simply have to hold these beliefs..

who have sincerely held religious, ethical or moral beliefs.

www.eeoc.gov...

They do not have to justify it to you, you don't have to agree with them... but by God it is their right to have them.

a reply to: stargatetravels

Freedom doesn't mean freedom only for those you agree with, it means freedom for all people... sometimes that means we should allow people the freedom to say no, I don't feel as if I can participate in this.

Its funny, because one of the first things I saw in Indiana after this law were the "We serve everyone" Stickers that businesses quickly devised to place in their entrances... It seems in the state of Indiana, that was what was most important to get across to their customers, that they served everyone.

Not many business owners will feel so strongly about anything as to turn DOWN dollars... business is in the business to make money, and most business owners don't care so long as you are providing them with their livelihood..

but just because you don't agree with someone, doesn't mean the few people who do have these strongly held beliefs should loose their constitutional right to not participate in something they feel morally they cannot do..

you told them rights are for everyone, even if you don't agree with their lifestyle etc. Well that is all well and good, many Christians all over the country agreed with that sentiment and began voting for same sex marriage. But just like you said, rights are for everyone..and that includes sometimes a persons right to say no, I cannot participate in that.

If you don't agree with them, you don't do business with them. It is the communities who keep the doors of any business open - by doing business there. If saying no is a sustainable businesses decision, we will soon find out, because its the community who will be voting, with their pocket books.

a reply to: Deaf Alien

I have known deaf people.. I was also in a wheelchair.. what I hated MOST about being disabled and in a wheelchair was the pity... EVERYONE looked at me with such pity in their eyes that I found the situation intolerable.. I don't do pity well..

Most people who are disabled, hate the pity the most. Don't see much discrimination for being disabled unless your trying to apply for a job where your disability would make your job more difficult.. there are tax breaks for hiring people with disabilities and other such considerations that make most businesses happy to hire disabled people if and when they have a position that a person with a disability can do.

By the way, I have never heard of any Christian or any other religion in the world who found it to be morally reprehensible to provide necessary services for a disabled person..situation such as they can now deny me services is a non issue and being way overly dramatic.

All this law in Indiana does, is extend the various religious discrimination laws in employment to include business owners having the right to turn down business if they feel they cannot take on the business due to their religious beliefs..

read the law

a baker shouldn't loose his right in this country to say no to something for religious reasons just because he got himself a business license and hired one person to help him... ect. And the wedding industry is full of these tiny little businesses.. there is nothing wrong with them having rights too..

originally posted by: stargatetravels

Some of you posters ought to be ashamed of yourselves.

Some of you people do not belong in a modern, civilized era.

Keep it in the church or at home.

The essence of progressive, enlightened tolerance....



He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: NavyDoc

No, you're talking about individual rights. What about the right of hospital hired interpreter to discriminate against certain types of patients?

What about the right of the city clerk to deny a legal marriage license because it offends her religious sensibilities?

Hospital interpreter is an employee. His boss should be able to fire him if he cannot do the job he is hired to do.

The city clerk is a public, taxpayer funded, servant commissioned to fulfill the law and serve the citizens in his city. If he cannot, then the city has every right to fire him.

Neither of which have anything to do with a private individual or business. Again with the strawmen.

Oh? So only business owners have the right to their closely held beliefs to discriminate, in any given situation, in your "tolerant" mind? "Only land owners can own slaves and vote!"

LOL What hypocrisy!

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: windword

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: NavyDoc

cakes and flowers and pizza are not essential services.

So now equality is based on need?

How is equality based on force?

One thing has nothing to do with the other.

Yes it does. You want to use force to achieve your version of "equality." How else do you think the laws you want work?

LOL! I was going to ask you the same question! Are you an anarchist?!!

YOU: How is equality based on force?

ME: One thing has nothing to do with the other.

Equality is NOT based on forced. Freedom is NOT based on force. Civility is NOT based on force. Success is NOT based on force. Get it yet?