It's Starting--> Indiana Christian Pizzeria ATTACKED by gay lobby

originally posted by: flammadraco

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: NavyDoc

Everyone is just doing their own thing.

Isn't that what you always preach?

manufactured outrage

You are kidding? People all over the World are outraged, folk on ATS are outraged. This is not "Manufactured". The US is meant to be the leader of the free world, and yet we are seeing a complete ignorance towards the constitution. Religion and state are supposed to be seperate and yet we have relgious groups lobbying state governors imposing relgious laws on to society.

If this law stands, then this will backfire. Just wait till a town/city has a big enough Muslium community with fundamentalist within that community imposing Shaira law. White college girl goes out for a drink in the evening and a group of young Muslium men demand she "covers up" and gets home and not to be seen out alone again. BTW this is already happening in London Suburbs, and theirs no religious protection law in the UK like the bill imposed in Indiana.

Would this be acceptable to ATS members who currently think the whole outrage has been manufactured?

Don't know if you saw the story or not, but in Ft. Worth Tx., the city council voted to disallow the creation within the city of Sharia Courts. They do, according to what I've read, have Sharia courts in England. They appear to be Civil courts only and preside over things like Divorce and Family law.

I remember when certain religious groups were found to be within their constitutional rights in the use of peyote and marijuana in their religious ceremonies. So I guess that its not beyond the realm of possibility that the Supreme Court would say that Religious or Sharia courts should be allowed to govern over matters of a civil nature in the practice of the Muslim faith.

It will be interesting to see how this develops. I'm not a Muslim, so I really don't care what they do as long as they don't try to enforce Sharia law on me.

originally posted by: queenofswords

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: NavyDoc

Everyone is just doing their own thing.

Isn't that what you always preach?

I can also, by the same token, criticize the motivations of those doing so and point out the hypocrisy of their behavior, the fine examples of "tolerance" they are.

OTOH, the death threats and threats of violence these people have been getting based on this manufactured outrage are indeed illegal.

You want hypocrisy?

Let an atheist business speak up.

They should if they want to. I think they have every right to do what they want and, if fact, have on several occasions.

Not the point.

I've been on all sides.

I've been Christian - - I've been atheist.
I've been Republican - - I've been non-affiliated.
I've lived in Right Wing Arizona - - I've lived in liberal Los Angeles.
I've worked for large corporations - - I've worked for small companies - - I've owned my own small business.
I've worked in religious environments - - I've worked in predominately LGBT environments.

Fundy Christians are arrogant and think they are in charge. That everyone should bow down to them. They're not.

I have no sympathy for Fundy Christians not allowed to discriminate.

LOL! Have you "found" yourself yet!?

Fundy Christians (as you put it) do seem to be confident in their beliefs, but I have never met one that wants anyone to bow down to them. Their discrimination is fine with me. I just prefer they not be hateful bigots like some.

Would you prefer Bow down to their God?

Never tell a Fundy you're atheist - - - if you want any peace of mind

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: queenofswords

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: NavyDoc

Everyone is just doing their own thing.

Isn't that what you always preach?

I can also, by the same token, criticize the motivations of those doing so and point out the hypocrisy of their behavior, the fine examples of "tolerance" they are.

OTOH, the death threats and threats of violence these people have been getting based on this manufactured outrage are indeed illegal.

You want hypocrisy?

Let an atheist business speak up.

They should if they want to. I think they have every right to do what they want and, if fact, have on several occasions.

Not the point.

I've been on all sides.

I've been Christian - - I've been atheist.
I've been Republican - - I've been non-affiliated.
I've lived in Right Wing Arizona - - I've lived in liberal Los Angeles.
I've worked for large corporations - - I've worked for small companies - - I've owned my own small business.
I've worked in religious environments - - I've worked in predominately LGBT environments.

Fundy Christians are arrogant and think they are in charge. That everyone should bow down to them. They're not.

I have no sympathy for Fundy Christians not allowed to discriminate.

LOL! Have you "found" yourself yet!?

Fundy Christians (as you put it) do seem to be confident in their beliefs, but I have never met one that wants anyone to bow down to them. Their discrimination is fine with me. I just prefer they not be hateful bigots like some.

Would you prefer Bow down to their God?

Never tell a Fundy you're atheist - - - if you want any peace of mind

And, obviously, never tell an atheist you're a Fundy --- if you want any peace of mind!

originally posted by: Seamrog

originally posted by: amicktd

The Christian faith is an embarrassment to the American culture in my opinion.

A moment or two before you were a twinkle in your daddy's eye, American culture was Christian culture.

This obsession with 'all things below the waist - however I want them' is a relatively new phenomenon.

Your public education failed you. Miserably.

Since when did my opinions reflect my education? The rest of your post doesn't make any sense to be honest. Looks like your education was a failure as well. But, I see your offended by me exercising my "freedom of speech". Again, the hypocrisy I tell ya.

a reply to: TonyS

As the law stands, a Muslium would be as protected by this law as a Christian. I am using Islam as an example to prove a point.

However if the birth rate of Muslims is the same as it is in Europe which outstrips those of indigenous population, then the point I made is a very real and scary scenario.

At this point in our civilisation and society, our governments should be Secular as should schools, hospitals and anything else paid for with Taxes.

The Christian Right in the US will regret this law as its going to open Pandora's Box!

originally posted by: queenofswords

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: queenofswords

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: NavyDoc

Everyone is just doing their own thing.

Isn't that what you always preach?

I can also, by the same token, criticize the motivations of those doing so and point out the hypocrisy of their behavior, the fine examples of "tolerance" they are.

OTOH, the death threats and threats of violence these people have been getting based on this manufactured outrage are indeed illegal.

You want hypocrisy?

Let an atheist business speak up.

They should if they want to. I think they have every right to do what they want and, if fact, have on several occasions.

Not the point.

I've been on all sides.

I've been Christian - - I've been atheist.
I've been Republican - - I've been non-affiliated.
I've lived in Right Wing Arizona - - I've lived in liberal Los Angeles.
I've worked for large corporations - - I've worked for small companies - - I've owned my own small business.
I've worked in religious environments - - I've worked in predominately LGBT environments.

Fundy Christians are arrogant and think they are in charge. That everyone should bow down to them. They're not.

I have no sympathy for Fundy Christians not allowed to discriminate.

LOL! Have you "found" yourself yet!?

Fundy Christians (as you put it) do seem to be confident in their beliefs, but I have never met one that wants anyone to bow down to them. Their discrimination is fine with me. I just prefer they not be hateful bigots like some.

Would you prefer Bow down to their God?

Never tell a Fundy you're atheist - - - if you want any peace of mind

And, obviously, never tell an atheist you're a Fundy --- if you want any peace of mind!

What? An atheist is gonna try to convert you to their Dogma?

An atheist isn't going to care as long as a Fundy doesn't try to push their belief.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: yuppa

You've got that backwards. The law is all ABOUT forcing its morals on people. That is the point of having laws so that people obey a set list of morals.

How is the law forcing anything on anyone? It just says that the government will not punish someone for not doing something based on religious grounds. How is that forcing anything on anyone?

I'm talking about law in general. All laws are are other's people morals you are forced to obey.

originally posted by: flammadraco
a reply to: TonyS

The Christian Right in the US will regret this law as its going to open Pandora's Box!

That's been my thought all along. Its a very strange progression of events.

Man this thread - Wow!
So many defending bigotry like these pizza owners are some noble & brave warriors. Puh-lease!!
There is nothing noble nor brave about cherry-picking Biblical passages to reinforce ones bigoted, odious and archaic views.
Hiding behind the shield of religious freedom while you single out one particular group for special treatment.
The number of sins punishable by death or hell in the bible is vast. Also if homosexuality were so awful and important, why not include it in the 10 commandments.

I'll tell you what - keep your BS religion in your home or church - keep your nonsense out of public life and out of business.
Religion and certainly religious zealots & bigots are a scourge on civilization.

a reply to: Gryphon66

The husband O'Conner stated in the SAME INTERVIEW that he was not sure about denying service to the Divorced because he himself had been divorced ... and while Jesus said nothing about same-sex marriage, He did specifically and LITERALLY condemn divorce.

What unmitigated freaking hypocrisy!

This is the key to this all.

I get the taking a stance for your beliefs but if you do so you better not cherry pick them.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: yuppa

You've got that backwards. The law is all ABOUT forcing its morals on people. That is the point of having laws so that people obey a set list of morals.

How is the law forcing anything on anyone? It just says that the government will not punish someone for not doing something based on religious grounds. How is that forcing anything on anyone?

I'm talking about law in general. All laws are are other's people morals you are forced to obey.

Fair enough. However, if we take that point and extrapolate that any pushing of morals via the law is okay then we should accept when the religious try to force their morals, yes?

The answer to avoid such a slope is to only pass the minimum number of laws to prevent actual harm to another citizen.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: queenofswords

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: queenofswords

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: NavyDoc

Everyone is just doing their own thing.

Isn't that what you always preach?

I can also, by the same token, criticize the motivations of those doing so and point out the hypocrisy of their behavior, the fine examples of "tolerance" they are.

OTOH, the death threats and threats of violence these people have been getting based on this manufactured outrage are indeed illegal.

You want hypocrisy?

Let an atheist business speak up.

They should if they want to. I think they have every right to do what they want and, if fact, have on several occasions.

Not the point.

I've been on all sides.

I've been Christian - - I've been atheist.
I've been Republican - - I've been non-affiliated.
I've lived in Right Wing Arizona - - I've lived in liberal Los Angeles.
I've worked for large corporations - - I've worked for small companies - - I've owned my own small business.
I've worked in religious environments - - I've worked in predominately LGBT environments.

Fundy Christians are arrogant and think they are in charge. That everyone should bow down to them. They're not.

I have no sympathy for Fundy Christians not allowed to discriminate.

LOL! Have you "found" yourself yet!?

Fundy Christians (as you put it) do seem to be confident in their beliefs, but I have never met one that wants anyone to bow down to them. Their discrimination is fine with me. I just prefer they not be hateful bigots like some.

Would you prefer Bow down to their God?

Never tell a Fundy you're atheist - - - if you want any peace of mind

And, obviously, never tell an atheist you're a Fundy --- if you want any peace of mind!

What? An atheist is gonna try to convert you to their Dogma?

An atheist isn't going to care as long as a Fundy doesn't try to push their belief.

In all fairness, there are indeed atheists and atheist organizations who are just as rabid about pushing themselves and their philosophy as the rabid fundies.

originally posted by: flammadraco

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: NavyDoc

Everyone is just doing their own thing.

Isn't that what you always preach?

manufactured outrage

You are kidding? People all over the World are outraged, folk on ATS are outraged. This is not "Manufactured". The US is meant to be the leader of the free world, and yet we are seeing a complete ignorance towards the constitution. Religion and state are supposed to be seperate and yet we have relgious groups lobbying state governors imposing relgious laws on to society.

If this law stands, then this will backfire. Just wait till a town/city has a big enough Muslium community with fundamentalist within that community imposing Shaira law. White college girl goes out for a drink in the evening and a group of young Muslium men demand she "covers up" and gets home and not to be seen out alone again. BTW this is already happening in London Suburbs, and there's no religious protection law in the UK like the bill imposed in Indiana.

Would this be acceptable to ATS members who currently think the whole outrage has been manufactured?

Of course it's manufactured. The pizza shop had not refused anyone service at all. They just made the mistake of talking to a reporter who sought them out. The whole world is up all up in a lather about a non-event. How is that not manufactured?

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: NavyDoc


Punishing the group you don't like simply because the pendulum has swung to your side is a dangerous precedent, IMHO.

Punishing LGBT group because you have an archaic belief, but ignore divorce, adultery, etc.

So you use one wrong to justify another wrong? This isn't kindergarten and I know that you don't accept "but he did it too" from your kids when they try to justify their bad behavior.

So you are for punishing people for beliefs you disagree with. Guess what, when the pendulum swings back, people will say the same thing about punishing you for your beliefs. How about we push for a society were people are free to believe and do as they please?

In a free society, the only one who has to justify your belief system to is yourself. There are plenty of people who might say the same thing about your beliefs (whatever they are) for being irrational or inconsistent.

a reply to: NavyDoc

Apologies..... I assumed that you were talking about the bill.

Nearly $200,000 have now been contributed via GoFundMe to this pizza parlor from supporters of them.
thehill.com...

a reply to: NavyDoc

I can agree with that. So now do you consider discrimination harming someone?

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: NavyDoc

Everyone is just doing their own thing.

Isn't that what you always preach?

I can also, by the same token, criticize the motivations of those doing so and point out the hypocrisy of their behavior, the fine examples of "tolerance" they are.

OTOH, the death threats and threats of violence these people have been getting based on this manufactured outrage are indeed illegal.

You want hypocrisy?

Let an atheist business speak up.

So your morality is based on what someone else does? If someone steals from you then you are justified in stealing from someone else? That's not logical. One cannot point out someone else's hypocrisy to justify their won. Neither should by hypocrites.

I've seen the hypocrisy. That's all.

And Yes, I can point to it. "David and Goliath"

I'm not understanding the reference. Are you suggesting that bad behavior is justified if you are perceived as the little guy? That it's okay to steal as long as it's from the big guy? That does not sound very moral.

originally posted by: trb71
Nearly $200,000 have now been contributed via GoFundMe to this pizza parlor from supporters of them.
thehill.com...

. . . and?

It changes nothing.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: NavyDoc

I can agree with that. So now do you consider discrimination harming someone?

How are they harmed? You can't quantify hurt feelings.