Indiana Shut Down Its Rural Planned Parenthood Clinics And Got An HIV Outbreak

originally posted by: macman
a reply to: Aazadan

Who said anything about killing them??? Ah wait....that was you that said that.

Just extrapolating from what you said. So you want to keep them around but you don't want to help them. This means you want them to remain as addicts, and commit crimes motivated by addiction.

Am I to presume instead that you wish to jail them all? Jails cost tax money, far more money than just giving them some help costs in the first place.

Then again, giving them all HIV is just a prolonged torturous way of killing them. Maybe that's what you think they deserve?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: ketsuko

Are you aware that the source of most of these recent heroin addictions is from people who were on prescription pills but can no longer get them anymore?

Prescription Drug Abuse Fueling Rise in Heroin Addiction

How much are you willing to bet that many of these people were upstanding people who ended up hooked on pharmaceutical poison, get cut off, then went and seek out heroin? Do you think it is likely that they started sharing needles because they didn't have a reliable place to obtain clean ones? If this happened to one of your family members, would you be singing the same tune?

Oh, so it's not their fault they abused prescription drugs? It's the pharmaceutical companies' fault for making the drugs ...

So much for personal responsibility.

As someone who spend many, many of my junior high, high school and college years using prescription narcotics on a regular basis, I reject your premise. You can use painkillers without becoming a junkie.

But lets get back to legalizing drugs. I know it's something you believe in. Do you believe it then becomes part of my public responsibility to provide clean needles in perpetuity? If so, then I no longer share your desire for legalized drugs because this is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. You want all the fun with none of the responsibility. You want me to be responsible for that "icky" bit.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: NavyDoc

Yea, because PP is the ONLY organization to do such things... Never mind that that is the prison industrial complex's entire modus operandi. I'd rather put my money towards funding Planned Parenthood and their lobbying efforts than the PIC and their lobbying efforts.

PP is all about saving lives and assisting people who need help. The PIC is all about ruining people's lives.

LOL. You got to be kidding. PP is all about the financing of PP.

That sounds amazingly like partisan hyperbole.

And your point isn't?

I'm for fiscal responsibility and feeding tax dollars to a partisan special interest group is not part of fiscal responsibility.

The only thing partisan about PP is the fact that conservatives think the organization is the devil because of abortions. If they could just get over themselves then we could all move on. PP does MANY good things for the community. Oh yeah and you have failed to post literally ANY evidence linking PP as a self-serving organization more worried about funding than helping people.

Like I JUST pointed out, PP was the ONLY source of HIV testing in the area until they were shut down. Once the HIV cases started rising was when the clinic you referred to in Austin had to train its nurses on HIV testing.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Truth hurts doesn't it, aaah the ol "leave my thread...solid response. I gave you a first hand observers eye witness report from the area...and yes YOU DID call it a conservative caused problem, need I quote you...don't worry I am finished with any thread that wont include the WHOLE truth. Deny ignorance

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Just because you don't think abortion is murder doesn't mean their aren't plenty of people who disagree.

I believe there was a thread here about how a baby feels pain before 20 weeks (looks like a baby too), but hey, it's not murder ... just because you conveniently choose to believe it's not.

Well, fine. Let PP do their thing, but I don't think I want my money going to it.

originally posted by: Digital_Reality
I love how these people jump straight to ridiculous things like this to try and prove their point.

No, nobody wants to just bull doze over all of the poor sick IV users. We want them to get better. We want them to be a productive part of society. We need them to be productive because we are all in this together. But you cannot fix this with free needles, HIV tests and abortions. That is only masking the issue just like what the drug users are doing by using drugs.

And taking those things away does what exactly? Clean needles cost pennies. If you don't pay for the needles and for the education to stop the spread of disease, you'll end up paying to treat the disease instead. It costs us all way more to prevent it in the first place. By spending money on programs like Planned Parenthood, you prevent these issues, and in turn see lower taxes.

Wanting people to be better is all well and good, but what are you doing to make that happen? Taking away what little support and safety structure there is and hoping for the best isn't a plan. It's putting your head in the sand.

So lets hear it from you right now. How do you propose fixing the problem?

originally posted by: Digital_Reality
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Something a little less dramatic. I don't know the answer to that question though. I do know MY idea would not involve hurting anyone in any way so please stop trying to insinuate that because I don't agree with you, that must be my idea. What your insinuating is bull and I am offended by it. NOBODY in their right mind is for anything remotely close to that. Its disgusting.

If you don't have an answer, how can you say the current answer is wrong? You shouldn't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

originally posted by: NavyDoc
Because taxpayers deserve the biggest bang for their buck and giving it to a group because it is a sacred cow does not achieve that goal.

The irony of a military man saying this is not lost on me.

originally posted by: ketsuko
Oh, so it's not their fault they abused prescription drugs? It's the pharmaceutical companies' fault for making the drugs ...

So much for personal responsibility.

I also blame pharmaceutical DTC ads. Personal responsibility is only a small factor when your entire support network is pushing you to take a bunch of very addictive drugs.

As someone who spend many, many of my junior high, high school and college years using prescription narcotics on a regular basis, I reject your premise. You can use painkillers without becoming a junkie.

Good for you. I have a similar experience when I blew my knee out in Iraq. I've even abused prescription pills before. I didn't like the way they make me feel and stopped using them, but not everyone has the same willpower as you or I do, and it is insulting to think that everyone does.

But lets get back to legalizing drugs. I know it's something you believe in. Do you believe it then becomes part of my public responsibility to provide clean needles in perpetuity? If so, then I no longer share your desire for legalized drugs because this is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. You want all the fun with none of the responsibility. You want me to be responsible for that "icky" bit.

How exactly do you want to hold drug users responsible for their actions? Make them die in a gutter? Because that is what you are advocating when you tout the "personal responsibility" line.

The personal responsibility line is all fine and good for a substance that isn't that addictive, but addiction changes the chemistry in your brain. It FORCES you to seek out and satisfy the addiction. Writing someone off that is addicted to drugs is a terrible thing to do.

What I want to do is provide help for those seeking assistance, but I understand that not everyone is ready for help. Therefore I see nothing wrong with providing some clean needles for them. They'd either just steal them or share dirty ones anyways. At least this way, they aren't spreading HIV.

Not everything is as cut and dry as you want to make it. There are many consequences that come from your hard line stance and many of those consequences are worse than if we just enabled them a bit.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: NavyDoc
Because taxpayers deserve the biggest bang for their buck and giving it to a group because it is a sacred cow does not achieve that goal.

The irony of a military man saying this is not lost on me.

Yeah, I know right? One of the biggest waste of taxpayer dollars is in military procurement. Thus, consider it fair to say that I know of what I speak.

originally posted by: BlueJacket
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Truth hurts doesn't it, aaah the ol "leave my thread...solid response. I gave you a first hand observers eye witness report from the area...and yes YOU DID call it a conservative caused problem, need I quote you...don't worry I am finished with any thread that wont include the WHOLE truth. Deny ignorance

Conservative does not always equal Republican. There is a reason I used that word instead of Republican. And your personal anecdote doesn't trump gathered evidence. If you want to be done with the thread because this is the quality of your posts, fine. I don't even care if you stay in the thread, I just don't care about responding to weak rebuttals like yours.

originally posted by: NavyDoc
You know, if those idiots would stop using IV drugs, this wouldn't have happened.

Now, the state is scrambling to erect pop-up clinics to combat an unprecedented HIV epidemic caused by intravenous drug use.

Did they contract HIV because they "didn't get proper care" or did they get HIV because of their own irresponsible decisions?

Why blame a state government trying to cut costs because the economy sucks but not level any blame on the idiots who shoot themselves up with dirty needles?


Personal responsibility--what is that?

But how much does it cost to treat someone with HIV over there life time?


Unless the USA wants to be the only developed nation thats leaves people with HIV to die if they cant afford treatment.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Just because you don't think abortion is murder doesn't mean their aren't plenty of people who disagree.

Oh I KNOW there are plenty of people who disagree.

I believe there was a thread here about how a baby feels pain before 20 weeks (looks like a baby too), but hey, it's not murder ... just because you conveniently choose to believe it's not.

Just a little fyi on me before you continue building this strawman about me. I may be pro-choice but that doesn't necessarily mean that if faced with an unexpected pregnancy that I'd want to have the girl I knocked up get an abortion.

Well, fine. Let PP do their thing, but I don't think I want my money going to it.

You don't have a choice where your tax money goes to

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: NavyDoc

Yea, because PP is the ONLY organization to do such things... Never mind that that is the prison industrial complex's entire modus operandi. I'd rather put my money towards funding Planned Parenthood and their lobbying efforts than the PIC and their lobbying efforts.

PP is all about saving lives and assisting people who need help. The PIC is all about ruining people's lives.

LOL. You got to be kidding. PP is all about the financing of PP.

That sounds amazingly like partisan hyperbole.

And your point isn't?

I'm for fiscal responsibility and feeding tax dollars to a partisan special interest group is not part of fiscal responsibility.

The only thing partisan about PP is the fact that conservatives think the organization is the devil because of abortions. If they could just get over themselves then we could all move on. PP does MANY good things for the community. Oh yeah and you have failed to post literally ANY evidence linking PP as a self-serving organization more worried about funding than helping people.

Like I JUST pointed out, PP was the ONLY source of HIV testing in the area until they were shut down. Once the HIV cases started rising was when the clinic you referred to in Austin had to train its nurses on HIV testing.

PP is a partisan organization that contributes exclusively to leftist candidates with your tax dollars. PP is an EXTREMELY partisan organization

www.opensecrets.org...

a reply to: Krazysh0t

But I have every right to advocate for it to not go to orgs like PP, and states like Indiana have every right to decide to listen to that advocacy.

Also, just because PP was funding HIV testing and then suddenly stopped HIV cases rose doesn't mean that there is causation. It could also be simple correlation, and since anyone and everyone on the left is examining Indiana with their partisan blinders on, PP felt that they might be able to get their gravy train on again.

As we've seen in the past, just because someone is HIV positive doesn't mean they know or care.

a reply to: NavyDoc

PP is a partisan organization that contributes exclusively to leftist candidates with your tax dollars. PP is an EXTREMELY partisan organization

DUH! Planned Parenthood's PAC supports those who support them! The Republican's Party platform includes their defunding! It's too bad that women's reproductive rights HAVE to be partisan, but it's not the fault of the clinics designed, by Congress through Title X under the Federal Government, to fulfill the (constitutionally legal) needs that they're tasked with.

a reply to: windword

It's too bad women consider murdering their defenseless babies a 'reproductive right.'

a reply to: Krazysh0t

You don't have a choice where your tax money goes to

Oh yes WE do. This is a big problem and a common misconception. The proof of this is PP not being in this city anymore. Now that choice is being exploited and exaggerated when it is not the actual cause of this HIV "epidemic". The problem is needles, drugs and unsafe sex. Not PP getting kicked out of town. Don't get it twisted. If PP is the last line of defense for these people the city has failed them.

a reply to: Seamrog

As far as I know infanticide IS illegal in all US states.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Seamrog

As far as I know infanticide IS illegal in all US states.

Um, no.

Women can murder their babies in any number of ways in literally every state in the union, and get patted on the back for their bravery.

Women can even cut an infant out of the womb of another woman, kill it in the process, and NOT be charged with murder.

What a badge of honor for the progressives in this country.

What progress women have made!

a reply to: Seamrog

Women can murder their babies in any number of ways in literally every state in the union, and get patted on the back for their bravery.

BS! Please show one state where infanticide is legal! Put up or shut up!

Women can even cut an infant out of the womb of another woman, kill it in the process, and NOT be charged with murder.

Are you describing a constitutionally protected, legal elective abortion performed by a female doctor? Because what you've described is certainly NOT legal in any US state, otherwise.

What progress women have made!

Indeed! And it should be celebrated and forwarded, not retarded by retards pushing retarded science.