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Indiana Shut Down Its Rural Planned Parenthood Clinics And Got An HIV Outbreak

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posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 10:14 AM
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originally posted by: macman
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Oh cry me a river. I have studied addiction. I grew up with a parent that was a substance abuse counselor.

And yes....I will kick them as that seems to be the only way to not continually fund people like this.

Did these people make the choice to use drugs?

Did these people make the choice to have sex?


So for the simple satisfaction of saying that you won't help these people on the front end, you are willing to shovel out boatloads more money on the back end when these people enter our Medicare health system?


Do you believe in natural selection?


Yes, but I also believe in empathy. Aren't you a Christian?


Do believe in Darwinism?


No, what is Darwinism?




posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 10:15 AM
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a reply to: Logarock

It's not JUST about testing. Planned Parenthood does more than test for HIV.



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 10:22 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: NavyDoc

That article is about the guy who owns the clinic complaining because he doesn't have enough assistance in dealing with the growing surge of HIV cases.


"We need help. But that costs money. My clinic serves the poorest people in Indiana, potentially the poorest in the country," Cooke said. "We do a sliding scale here. If they can, they may pay us 10 dollars for care. I'm hopeful this declaration provides the funding we have needed.


Yes that very same money that was slashed from the budget for PP. You literally just posted another article that makes it clear that getting rid of the Planned Parenthood clinic was a VERY bad idea for Indiana.


So you've changed the goalpost from "planned parenthood closing a clinic caused the HIV increase" to "reducing preventative funding caused the increase."

The original Huffpo article stated quite clearly that the cause of the HIV increase to PLANNED PARENTHOOD specifically, not to prevention in general, was the cause of the increase. The is demonstrably false as I have clearly shown. PP did not even have a clinic in Austin.

As for preventive care funds, it is laughable to suggest that giving those funds to PP is essential. PP makes a hell of a lot off the taxpayer and those funds could go to people who could utilize them better such as the clinic mentioned in the article. Dr. Cooke makes nowhere near the half a million dollars that PP CEO does or the regional execs.




The report shows that the average salary of a CEO at a Planned Parenthood affiliate is $158,275. This falls in the top six percent of all household incomes in the United States. Thirty of the top executives receive salaries in excess of $200,000 (the top 2.67 percent of household income), while 18 of the executives rank in the top 1.5 percent with annual incomes in excess of $250,000.

Furthermore, detailed profiles included in the report show that of 81 PP affiliates studied, just 10 PP affiliates have CEOs (12 percent) who actually have a background in healthcare. Planned Parenthood receives almost half a billion dollars in tax subsidies to provide what it defines as “reproductive healthcare.”

“At a time when the economy is in trouble and the American taxpayer provides 46 percent of Planned Parenthood’s income,” said Rob Gasper, senior researcher at ALL and co-author of the report, “it is incredible that the top eight people at PP’s headquarters—who provide no actual healthcare and never see a single client—make an average of $269,541 a year.”


So rather than using taxpayer dollars to line the pockets of PP executives, perhaps good doctors like Dr. Cooke could use that support.



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 10:22 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

No, no money either front or back should be used for their "addiction".
If they commit crimes, they, like people without addictions should be punished.

So, since when does empathy equal doling out money?
And, please show me where it states in the Bible that because someone uses drugs, they should be given free crap.

I feel bad for people like this...but that is where it ends. I had no part in their life choices. THEY chose these paths. Empathy in NO way suggestions actions without consequence.

They took drugs. Drugs are bad. They continue to take bad drugs.


I have empathy for people that are born without legs....not habitual drug users that are now paying the high price for their terrible life choices and actions.

Forgot to add this. en.wikipedia.org...

It is the basis of the "natural selection" theory.

I guess you are for natural selection....but not for it to be applied to certain people.

Hey, not everyone can be a rockstar. I guess drug addict is their position in life.

edit on 1-4-2015 by macman because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 10:28 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Logarock

It's not JUST about testing. Planned Parenthood does more than test for HIV.


We know, which is why they got shut down. They are a fraud and they hide behind stuff like this. Some people are not conflicted with a junkie getting her baby vacuumed out, getting a free HIV test and free needles but I am. This is not a service to the community. Its evil in disguise.



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 10:35 AM
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a reply to: Digital_Reality

Yeah, addicts are immoral and evil, blah blah, we all know. But the fact is, your going to pay out for there bad choices either way. a little bit now or a lot later.

So of course spending a little now is a service to the community, how could anyone argue against that?

edit on 1-4-2015 by Subaeruginosa because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 10:41 AM
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originally posted by: macman
a reply to: Krazysh0t

No, no money either front or back should be used for their "addiction".
If they commit crimes, they, like people without addictions should be punished.


Punished? For making poor life choices? We can't help these people overcome these bad choices and leave them behind? No, they must pay for their poor decisions probably brought on by their environment and we shouldn't offer ANY services to help them get out of their rut.


So, since when does empathy equal doling out money?
And, please show me where it states in the Bible that because someone uses drugs, they should be given free crap.


Empathy means helping people who are in need. The fact that you look at helping drug users as giving them free crap just shows how unemphatic you are to this.


I feel bad for people like this...but that is where it ends. I had no part in their life choices. THEY chose these paths. Empathy in NO way suggestions actions without consequence.


I don't believe that you feel bad for them at all.


They took drugs. Drugs are bad. They continue to take bad drugs.


Yes, because those drugs alter their brain chemistry to make them seek out those drugs. Kicking a drug habit is one of the hardest things you could ever do. Have you ever tried to quit smoking cigarettes?


I have empathy for people that are born without legs....not habitual drug users that are now paying the high price for their terrible life choices and actions.


This shows a clear misunderstanding of the causes of addiction. Addiction can't be boiled down to simply just bad decisions in life. Much of it arises from poor education, your environment you grew up in, your income level, your social circle, etc.


Forgot to add this. en.wikipedia.org...

It is the basis of the "natural selection" theory.


OOOOOOH you mean the theory of evolution. No one in the scientific community cares about Darwin's opinions on natural selection anymore. They've moved past it. Darwinism is an archaic term. By the way, I was being deliberately obtuse when I asked what Darwinism was. I just wanted to see how far you'd want to walk down that path.


I guess you are for natural selection....but not for it to be applied to certain people.

Hey, not everyone can be a rockstar. I guess drug addict is their position in life.


We don't live in that kind of society anymore. We try to show empathy for the downtrodden and abused. Frankly, the drug addicts of the country are some of the most abused people in our country. Jailed for imbibing a substance, poor or no support for recovery, and every one has written them off as scum because they use drugs.



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 10:45 AM
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originally posted by: Digital_Reality

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Logarock

It's not JUST about testing. Planned Parenthood does more than test for HIV.


We know, which is why they got shut down. They are a fraud and they hide behind stuff like this. Some people are not conflicted with a junkie getting her baby vacuumed out, getting a free HIV test and free needles but I am. This is not a service to the community. Its evil in disguise.


What? Helping drug addicts overcome their addictions or survive through the night is being evil? WOW. By the way, where is your proof of fraud on the part of PP? Oh yea, THIS PP clinic didn't even PERFORM abortions.

Though I must thank you. You are probably the first conservative in this thread to be honest about why they don't care about the PP clinic being shutdown. It's all about those abortions, even though this particular clinic didn't perform abortions or the fact that only 3% of the services that PP performs are abortions.



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 10:55 AM
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originally posted by: NavyDoc
So you've changed the goalpost from "planned parenthood closing a clinic caused the HIV increase" to "reducing preventative funding caused the increase."


PP clinics survive off of funding from the government so that they can provide preventative services. That's the whole point I'm making. This PP clinic was helping in the area, they got shutdown because the government reduced its funding for preventative services. In this case specifically targeting PP because abortions. Then HIV cases goes up.


The original Huffpo article stated quite clearly that the cause of the HIV increase to PLANNED PARENTHOOD specifically, not to prevention in general, was the cause of the increase. The is demonstrably false as I have clearly shown. PP did not even have a clinic in Austin.


That's because there was only one clinic in the whole damn county. Regardless of where it was located, they picked up all services in that county.


As for preventive care funds, it is laughable to suggest that giving those funds to PP is essential. PP makes a hell of a lot off the taxpayer and those funds could go to people who could utilize them better such as the clinic mentioned in the article. Dr. Cooke makes nowhere near the half a million dollars that PP CEO does or the regional execs.


Yes, now let's create a strawman that giving money to PP just lines the executives' pockets and none of it goes to actually helping people...



The report shows that the average salary of a CEO at a Planned Parenthood affiliate is $158,275. This falls in the top six percent of all household incomes in the United States. Thirty of the top executives receive salaries in excess of $200,000 (the top 2.67 percent of household income), while 18 of the executives rank in the top 1.5 percent with annual incomes in excess of $250,000.

Furthermore, detailed profiles included in the report show that of 81 PP affiliates studied, just 10 PP affiliates have CEOs (12 percent) who actually have a background in healthcare. Planned Parenthood receives almost half a billion dollars in tax subsidies to provide what it defines as “reproductive healthcare.”

“At a time when the economy is in trouble and the American taxpayer provides 46 percent of Planned Parenthood’s income,” said Rob Gasper, senior researcher at ALL and co-author of the report, “it is incredible that the top eight people at PP’s headquarters—who provide no actual healthcare and never see a single client—make an average of $269,541 a year.”


Really? That is the best you got? How about putting those figures in perspective with other ceo's of NPO's?

Chief Executive Officer (CEO), Non-Profit Organization Salary (United States)


Non-Profit CEOs in the United States can expect to earn a very comfortable salary, with average salaries (in the ballpark of $102K) surpassing six figures annually. Final cash compensation to Non-Profit CEOs varies from around $51K to approximately $223K;


Looks like those salaries are right in line with what other CEO's in other NPO's make.


So rather than using taxpayer dollars to line the pockets of PP executives, perhaps good doctors like Dr. Cooke could use that support.


What do you care? You don't seem to want any clinics getting money to help prevent HIV.



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 10:59 AM
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a reply to: CharlieSpeirs




I think it's the Eugenecist past of PP that caused this partly...

There was a lot of noise around 2011-2013 about PP and the Eugenics plan...



So, because the founder of PP, Margret Stanger, opined on eugenics, which was very popular among lawmakers and religious leaders of the day, including Winston Church Hill, PP deserves to be defunded?


Many Social Gospel adherents viewed eugenics as God’s plan to reconcile the truths of science with the Bible. Toward this end, Bible verses were reinterpreted and found to contain what had theretofore been secret eugenics messages. Thus, in one minister’s sermon, Noah’s flood was God’s own eugenics policy for eliminating a human race that had degraded and become inferior. Others insisted that Christ’s Parable of the Talents was actually about improving the population: In eugenics exegeses, “Whoever has will be given more; whoever does not have, even what he thinks he has will be taken from him,” took on a whole new meaning.

While some notable leaders of the broader eugenics movement kept their distance from all things religious, the American Eugenics Society recognized the importance of church leaders in selling eugenics theory to average Americans. Toward this end, the society appointed the Reverend Harry Emerson Fosdick, whose radio program, National Vespers, reached two or three million listeners each week, to its advisory council. Securing the endorsement of Fosdick, one of the nation’s most famous preachers, was a major coup for eugenics.

The American Eugenics Society’s Committee on Cooperation with Clergymen also sponsored eugenics sermon contests, open to all ministers, priests, rabbis, and theology students. The sermon had to be preached to a regular congregation in a church or synagogue, and the minister had to take up the question, “Religion and Eugenics: Does the church have any responsibility for improving the human stock?” The prizes ranged up to $500, a hefty sum in the mid-1920s.
www.theamericanconservative.com...


Ironic thing is, your opinion, and the opinions others riding on your logical coattails, are basically using the same "eugenics logic" argument. "These stupid drug users, having unprotected sex, deserve to what they got and they should just die out and let society be rid of them." Amiright?

a reply to: NavyDoc



You know, if those idiots would stop using IV drugs, this wouldn't have happened.


Thanks Capt Obvious!

And you claim to be a doctor??!!




edit on 1-4-2015 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 11:03 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Hey, I mince no words here. I am against abortion, period! I don't give a crap if they are giving out free 5 man tents and a cornucopia of food to homeless people. If they or anyone they are affiliated with are sucking out babies and chopping their spinal cords to be tossed in the dumpster, I'm against them. Granted the world is messed up and I can do little about it but I still have the freedom to disagree with it.

If you end a life you are a killer. You can rationalize about that all you want but Its not going to change my mind.



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 11:06 AM
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a reply to: Digital_Reality

So you are saying that the 3% of services that abortions make up for PP negates ALL the other good they bring to the communities that they serve? That's a pretty ridiculous rationale (especially since the PP clinic in question didn't even perform abortions), but at least you aren't beating around the bush on it like I suspect many of the others debating me in this thread are doing.



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 11:12 AM
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originally posted by: Digital_Reality
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Hey, I mince no words here. I am against abortion, period! I don't give a crap if they are giving out free 5 man tents and a cornucopia of food to homeless people. If they or anyone they are affiliated with are sucking out babies and chopping their spinal cords to be tossed in the dumpster, I'm against them. Granted the world is messed up and I can do little about it but I still have the freedom to disagree with it.

If you end a life you are a killer. You can rationalize about that all you want but Its not going to change my mind.




Yup.

I remember when Barack Obama uttered the words "God Bless Planned Parenthood."

Vividly.



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 11:13 AM
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originally posted by: macman
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I have seen woman hide needles and razors in their privates to avoid detection while being booked into jail.

I have seen the aftermath of what methheads and heroin junkies do to people that don't just give up their wallets.

I have seen what happens to areas infested with these people.

I have arrested many of them.

So yeah, I have seen it.

And the funny thing is....NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THEM WERE FORCED INTO DOING DRUGS.

I still like the idea of busing them up to Canada. Canadians have such a wonderful system of medicine and life, I am sure they will do much better up there.


A persons choice to do drugs and/or have sex is not my financial obligation when things go south for them.




so any of your and navydocs fellow vets in the area who happen to be junkies courtesy of the VA, and caught HIV can just drop dead, huh?


or were you too busy painting the victims here with the same brush and getting on your soapbox to promote your brand of Punitive Populism to consider them?

or are they just "pawasites" too?
edit on 1-4-2015 by AdamuBureido because: ?



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 11:20 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: NavyDoc
So you've changed the goalpost from "planned parenthood closing a clinic caused the HIV increase" to "reducing preventative funding caused the increase."


PP clinics survive off of funding from the government so that they can provide preventative services. That's the whole point I'm making. This PP clinic was helping in the area, they got shutdown because the government reduced its funding for preventative services. In this case specifically targeting PP because abortions. Then HIV cases goes up.


The original Huffpo article stated quite clearly that the cause of the HIV increase to PLANNED PARENTHOOD specifically, not to prevention in general, was the cause of the increase. The is demonstrably false as I have clearly shown. PP did not even have a clinic in Austin.


That's because there was only one clinic in the whole damn county. Regardless of where it was located, they picked up all services in that county.


As for preventive care funds, it is laughable to suggest that giving those funds to PP is essential. PP makes a hell of a lot off the taxpayer and those funds could go to people who could utilize them better such as the clinic mentioned in the article. Dr. Cooke makes nowhere near the half a million dollars that PP CEO does or the regional execs.


Yes, now let's create a strawman that giving money to PP just lines the executives' pockets and none of it goes to actually helping people...



The report shows that the average salary of a CEO at a Planned Parenthood affiliate is $158,275. This falls in the top six percent of all household incomes in the United States. Thirty of the top executives receive salaries in excess of $200,000 (the top 2.67 percent of household income), while 18 of the executives rank in the top 1.5 percent with annual incomes in excess of $250,000.

Furthermore, detailed profiles included in the report show that of 81 PP affiliates studied, just 10 PP affiliates have CEOs (12 percent) who actually have a background in healthcare. Planned Parenthood receives almost half a billion dollars in tax subsidies to provide what it defines as “reproductive healthcare.”

“At a time when the economy is in trouble and the American taxpayer provides 46 percent of Planned Parenthood’s income,” said Rob Gasper, senior researcher at ALL and co-author of the report, “it is incredible that the top eight people at PP’s headquarters—who provide no actual healthcare and never see a single client—make an average of $269,541 a year.”


Really? That is the best you got? How about putting those figures in perspective with other ceo's of NPO's?

Chief Executive Officer (CEO), Non-Profit Organization Salary (United States)


Non-Profit CEOs in the United States can expect to earn a very comfortable salary, with average salaries (in the ballpark of $102K) surpassing six figures annually. Final cash compensation to Non-Profit CEOs varies from around $51K to approximately $223K;


Looks like those salaries are right in line with what other CEO's in other NPO's make.


So rather than using taxpayer dollars to line the pockets of PP executives, perhaps good doctors like Dr. Cooke could use that support.


What do you care? You don't seem to want any clinics getting money to help prevent HIV.


Your last bit is completely untrue. I said very clearly that Dr, Cooke could make better use of the funding and, since he was the guy in the trenches all along, not the PP executive who wants more taxpayer dollars, that would be logical.

Nowhere have I said that there should not be preventative services. What I did do is point out that the narrative that planned parenting not getting all the funds they wanted was the cause was false.

Planned parenthood is a lobbying organization that depends on the narrative that they are the only one who does the job to keep the taxpayer gravy train flowing and this entire episode is an example of it. They use taxpayer funds to both keep their execs well-heeled and to lobby us for more funds.

Dr Cooke could have done much more with a fraction of the funds that were cut from PP and he wouldn't have given himself a quarter million dollar salary doing it.

You seem to want to keep throwing money down the PP hole for what reason? They are not the only game in town obviously. Is it because PP is such an icon, such a sacred cow of the left?



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 11:21 AM
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a reply to: AdamuBureido

Wait..Junkies because of the VA? Now this should be good. Please do expand.



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 11:22 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Digital_Reality

So you are saying that the 3% of services that abortions make up for PP negates ALL the other good they bring to the communities that they serve? That's a pretty ridiculous rationale (especially since the PP clinic in question didn't even perform abortions), but at least you aren't beating around the bush on it like I suspect many of the others debating me in this thread are doing.


YES!

And ill further that and say I don't agree with anything they do.
Yeah, call me a crazy conservative who has a radically dangerous train of thought because I don't agree with enabling people to hurt themselves or the killing of babies.

I cant believe in this upside down world im the crazy one because I cherish life. I just cant bring myself to be ok with hurting babies in any way, at any stage, for any reason AT ALL. Its foolish to make yourself believe its anything less than what it is. It is murder!

We can agree to disagree. I'm ok with that and I respect your opinion. I truly do. But I need to stay true to myself also.

Please put me on record for saying this for ever and ever.



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 11:24 AM
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a reply to: Digital_Reality




Please put me on record for saying this for ever and ever.


Yeah! Okay! We got it!


You'll never get an abortion! Good for you!



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 11:27 AM
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originally posted by: Digital_Reality


... call me a crazy conservative who has a radically dangerous train of thought because I don't agree with...





A crazy conservative yesterday, today you are a hateful extremist.

Tomorrow, you will be the enemy.

Plan accordingly.



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 11:30 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

If I run a red light, and crash into a vehicle, I pay the price of my actions.

If someone does drugs, they pay the price for their actions.

Both of which are poor choices. Both can get the bleeding heart viewpoint of bad education this...or poor environment that. None of which are valid excuses.

Just because someone didn't graduate HS doesn't then lead them to drug use. Nor is it any sort of valid defense for their actions.

Society is not responsible for people's bad choices.

And yes, it does in fact all boil down to laziness and free stuff.

And please show me where the definition of empathy has been changed from relating to someone's plight to now "helping" them....via free crap.

Here is my "help"...they fail until they stop making bad choices. Providing condoms does not help stop them making bad choices. Providing free needles and tests does not help them stop making bad choices.

And I didn't say they are scum for choosing to use drugs. YOU used that statement.




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