"Tolerance Works Both Ways"

originally posted by: tridentblue
a reply to: Astrocyte
A potential client owns a Wiccan establishment. She says she'll hire the Muslim woman, but she needs to not cover her hair and everything, to celebrate the spirit of the Goddess.

This would be discrimination unless it was within the interests / benefit of the Wiccan business. The purpose and type of business is what decides if discrimination is involved not the persons involved. For example, if it was a cleaning business this would likely just be discrimination. The business receives no benefit from the hair covering being removed. If it was a strip bar, then it would be within the core business interest of the establishment to remove clothing or wear specific uniforms.

If you prefer, switch the faiths, a Wiccan cleaning woman who is told she needs to cover her hair and defer to men at a place, which is against her female empowerment faith.

Is deferring to men part of the core business of the establishment? Does the business benefit from that process? Clearly not. If it is a religious establishment then they will be registered as such and not bound by the same laws.

Same applies to cake making and everything else. Not really that interested in making value statements on this, but this is my understanding of American law. Better example would be Muslim taxi drivers who refuse to transport customers carrying alcohol.

originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: Metallicus

Well, I don't think anyone is stopping you from loading up on supplies and venturing out into the wild to live "free" from society. We all still have that right. There are places on the planet you can go where you'll never run into another human being ever again, and you will be free to do whatever you want, whenever you want. No one is forced to be a member of society.

EDIT: I could think of a few rivers in the Amazon that if you traveled up, you'd never be bothered by another soul.

Actually I am saying people have a right to live right where they own property now without your interference. I am sick of people forcing their lifestyles on me just because we live in proximity. Leave ME and other people alone and I will do the same for you. It doesn't get more fair.

Owning property is a social contract. You need society in order for such a thing to hold up.

a reply to: Metallicus

How would someone know someone is gay unless they told them?

I hear the "holier than thou" have been endowed with the girft of Gaydar. No matter how hard the homosexual may try to hide or disguise it, religious nutters will not be fooled!

originally posted by: Sremmos80

Not just pick one.

it's funny how "Christians" run to parts of the old testament when its convenient.
I know it prohibits homosexuality in Leviticus 18:22, here are some others

Leviticus 20:10
"And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death"
where are all those adulterous stonings?

Deuteronomy
"21:18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
21:19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
21:20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
21:21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die"
when are we going to start stoning the kids?
never...
look at some of these and tell me honestly that this new bill is ok
A whole lot of things prohibited by the bible

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Just an fyi. Chic-fil-a has been pretty damn intolerant towards gays in the past with some of its press releases and it is still one of the most popular fast food restaurants. In other words, if your product is compelling enough, people will overlook any atrocity you commit while providing that product.

I don't shop at Wal-Mart because I have extreme issues with the way they treat their employees. All the things I am upset about Wal-Mart with are known problems that Wal-Mart hasn't made any effort to correct. My boycott is doing nothing to Wal-Mart and I'm sure that the Walton family could give a damn that I haven't stepped foot in one in years.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: Metallicus

Well, I don't think anyone is stopping you from loading up on supplies and venturing out into the wild to live "free" from society. We all still have that right. There are places on the planet you can go where you'll never run into another human being ever again, and you will be free to do whatever you want, whenever you want. No one is forced to be a member of society.

EDIT: I could think of a few rivers in the Amazon that if you traveled up, you'd never be bothered by another soul.

Actually I am saying people have a right to live right where they own property now without your interference. I am sick of people forcing their lifestyles on me just because we live in proximity. Leave ME and other people alone and I will do the same for you. It doesn't get more fair.

Owning property is a social contract. You need society in order for such a thing to hold up.

THAT is the problem. Having a place to live is a God-given right not something society can grant a person.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: SlapMonkey

Just an fyi. Chic-fil-a has been pretty damn intolerant towards gays in the past with some of its press releases and it is still one of the most popular fast food restaurants. In other words, if your product is compelling enough, people will overlook any atrocity you commit while providing that product.

I don't shop at Wal-Mart because I have extreme issues with the way they treat their employees. All the things I am upset about Wal-Mart with are known problems that Wal-Mart hasn't made any effort to correct. My boycott is doing nothing to Wal-Mart and I'm sure that the Walton family could give a damn that I haven't stepped foot in one in years.

What 'atrocity' has Chick-Fil-A perpetrated exactly? Have they denied service or employment to anyone? No. All that happened is that their owner stated his beliefs. Oh, the humanity.

Tools.

originally posted by: Iamthatbish
What I really need an explanation for is why are there those being descriminated against wanting to make someone take their money. I believe in boycotts. Speak with your spending.

If they don't like you or your beleifs why make them take your money to pay their bills!?! I really don't get it.

It's more about the damage this does to society.
Where do you draw the line? If you say that these businesses should be able to say no to LGBT people just because of an arrogant and ignorant belief, is it then okay for a business to refuse to serve black people? How about Jewish people? How about those visiting from another country?

Can you really not understand the damage this bill could do to the image of the state enacting such a law, and those who live within that state?

I tend to think that those who think this should be okay are generally white, Christian Americans, people who have never experienced any discrimination in their lives. I can guarantee you, if you had experienced this arrogance and intolerance yourself you would probably have a better understanding of how damaging it is to the whole of society just to have these laws there as a possibility.

Even if this law stays, and even if no one ever acts on it, it sends a clear message to entire groups of people that "you are not equal, you are not deserving, we have a right to be a bigot toward you".

That is not healthy for any society, it wasn't twenty years ago and it's not now.

originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: Metallicus

Well, I don't think anyone is stopping you from loading up on supplies and venturing out into the wild to live "free" from society. We all still have that right. There are places on the planet you can go where you'll never run into another human being ever again, and you will be free to do whatever you want, whenever you want. No one is forced to be a member of society.

EDIT: I could think of a few rivers in the Amazon that if you traveled up, you'd never be bothered by another soul.

Actually I am saying people have a right to live right where they own property now without your interference. I am sick of people forcing their lifestyles on me just because we live in proximity. Leave ME and other people alone and I will do the same for you. It doesn't get more fair.

Owning property is a social contract. You need society in order for such a thing to hold up.

THAT is the problem. Having a place to live is a God-given right not something society can grant a person.

I'm not following you here. Are you claiming that God provided you with your house and plot of land that you currently live on and not the legally binding contracts you signed as part of the society you live in?

Without society, I can just walk onto your land and kick you out provided I have enough power to do so. There is no God given right about it. Without society, life is just rule through power.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: SlapMonkey

Just an fyi. Chic-fil-a has been pretty damn intolerant towards gays in the past with some of its press releases and it is still one of the most popular fast food restaurants. In other words, if your product is compelling enough, people will overlook any atrocity you commit while providing that product.

How much money would they have made without the boycott?

It's impossible to say that this has not damaged them as a business. Maybe they would have opened another 500 stores across the world already if they weren't such a bunch of ignorant fools?

originally posted by: Rocker2013

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: SlapMonkey

Just an fyi. Chic-fil-a has been pretty damn intolerant towards gays in the past with some of its press releases and it is still one of the most popular fast food restaurants. In other words, if your product is compelling enough, people will overlook any atrocity you commit while providing that product.

How much money would they have made without the boycott?

It's impossible to say that this has not damaged them as a business. Maybe they would have opened another 500 stores across the world already if they weren't such a bunch of ignorant fools?

How are they ignorant fools? Because their owner stated his personal beliefs that marriage is between a man and a woman? I don't even agree with his opinion, but he did NOTHING WRONG.

As a matter of fact their sales INCREASED since he said that because people have gone out of their way to support his right to say what he believes in this supposedly free country. I know that I have gone there often just to support free speech rights. Something in which I still believe.

a reply to: Metallicus

Apparently, you are considered an "ignorant fool" if you believe differently than what the current social media states you need to believe.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I am saying as a human being I have a right to the property I am homesteading on. Are you saying without God you can just force me off my land? I agree with you because Atheists have no moral compass.

a reply to: Rocker2013

It clearly isn't putting them in the red nor is it affecting profits enough for them to change their opinions, so I think what if talk like that is useless. If the boycott doesn't threaten them as a business, it isn't effective enough.

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I am saying as a human being I have a right to the property I am homesteading on. Are you saying without God you can just force me off my land? I agree with you because Atheists have no moral compass.

*eye roll* Yeah JUST atheists are without moral compasses. Never mind the religious history in your own bible talking about the ancient Israelites wondering around the Middle East kicking other nations off their property because God told them to. I wonder how awesomely moral the ancient Canaanites felt when the Israelites showed up claiming this new land was the Promised Land and they should go take a hike (and by that I mean they conquered and expelled them)

But hey god or no, if I have more fire power than you, what are you going to do about it if I walk in and kick you off? God won't save your land for you. You'll just have to go elsewhere and hope that some other guy doesn't kick you off that property.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Rocker2013

It clearly isn't putting them in the red nor is it affecting profits enough for them to change their opinions, so I think what if talk like that is useless. If the boycott doesn't threaten them as a business, it isn't effective enough.

For every sandwich you don't buy I am buying two just to support their right to free speech. There are a lot of people have had enough of being pushed around that will do the same as me.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I am saying as a human being I have a right to the property I am homesteading on. Are you saying without God you can just force me off my land? I agree with you because Atheists have no moral compass.

*eye roll* Yeah JUST atheists are without moral compasses. Never mind the religious history in your own bible talking about the ancient Israelites wondering around the Middle East kicking other nations off their property because God told them to.

But hey god or no, if I have more fire power than you, what are you going to do about it if I walk in and kick you off? God won't save your land for you. You'll just have to go elsewhere and hope that some other guy doesn't kick you off that property.

I don't have a 'Bible' as I am not religious or a Christian. I just support free speech and individual rights.

Atheists don't have a moral compass because they don't have an organized belief system. Atheists are a belief in nothing and as such have no code other than 'do as thou wilt'.

ETA: Don't assume you have more firepower than I do. It would be a mistake.

a reply to: Metallicus

And there in lies my point. Intolerance isn't going to put a company out of business if the product they sell is good enough. You clearly want to make up for my lost support there. The company doesn't care. The situation could be we both buy a sandwich each or it could be that you buy 2 sandwiches and I buy none; the company makes the same amount regardless.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Metallicus

And there in lies my point. Intolerance isn't going to put a company out of business if the product they sell is good enough. You clearly want to make up for my lost support there. The company doesn't care. The situation could be we both buy a sandwich each or it could be that you buy 2 sandwiches and I buy none; the company makes the same amount regardless.

How are they 'intolerant' since they have done nothing to discriminate? There isn't any reason to put them out of business as they have DONE NOTHING WRONG.

a reply to: Metallicus

Man I could have sworn you JUST said this about Christians:

Religious people don't always hold the same beliefs between sects and denominations. Catholics have many differences from Protestants and each Protestant sect has differences as well. STOP telling religious people how they have to believe and behave because it annoys you. You annoy me and I still don't tell you what to believe, but to just leave people the hell alone. Would you want some religious nut telling you how to believe? Now you know how they feel.

And here you are telling me what Atheists have to believe. "Hey Mr. Kettle, I'm just informing you that you are black. Sincerely Mr. Pot."

As to your ETA: The thought exercise isn't on what we actually have in reality. I could have a tank for all you know. The firepower is just a minor detail of the point I'm making.