Does Iran Have Secret Nukes in North Korea?

a reply to: beezzer

I don't think anyone is saying Iran is good.

What im saying is its not worth another ME war.


Big difference.

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: CranialSponge
a reply to: beezzer

Then why are you so sure that Iran is all sweet and honest?

What makes you think I believe that Iran is all sweet and honest ?

Because I don't see impartiality here.

What I see is;

'Murca bad.
Iran good.

Now me?

I say;
'Murca bad.
Iran bad.

See the difference?

Actually Beezer I don't see the difference, you will still make the same NSA lists as the others.

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: CranialSponge
a reply to: beezzer

Then why are you so sure that Iran is all sweet and honest?

What makes you think I believe that Iran is all sweet and honest ?

Because I don't see impartiality here.

What I see is;

'Murca bad.
Iran good.

Now me?

I say;
'Murca bad.
Iran bad.

See the difference?

Everybody bad, I agree.

And because I don't believe that Iran is all "sweet and honest" is EXACTLY why I think this deal with Iran is a necessity !

This deal would force them even further under a microscope.


Our own damn countries need to be put under this same kind of babysitting deal...

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: UmbraSumus
a reply to: beezzer

Do you think Iran would use a nuclear weapon on Israel if it had one?

Or do you think they would use the device as a deterrent to invasion ?

With knowledge that they have nuclear weapons -Get away with more bully-boy tactics in the region, up to and including use of conventional weapons?

I don't know.

If you're asking if I trust them to do the sane rational acts of a sane and rational people, then I'd have to say, "No".

That is the crux of the issue - people come down on one side of the other; rational or unrational actors.

I see nothing to think they are anything but rational - but it isn't my family in the line of fire.

I could be wrong but - Israel is small enough to be obliterated via conventional weapons - if Iran was truly driven to annililate Israel (even paying the ultimate cost to its own nation and Peoples ) -it would have done so by now.

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: beezzer

I don't think anyone is saying Iran is good.

What im saying is its not worth another ME war.


Big difference.

It's never going to be a good time to go to war.

War sucks.
War is horrible.
War is the most disgusting thing one human can do to another human!

The only thing we can do is "trust" that the people we elect do the right thing.

So far, that hasn't happened yet.

But if I see one more synchophantic I *heart* Iran post, I swear I'm going to punch a kitten in the face!

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: beezzer

I don't think anyone is saying Iran is good.

What im saying is its not worth another ME war.


Big difference.

It's never going to be a good time to go to war.

War sucks.
War is horrible.
War is the most disgusting thing one human can do to another human!

The only thing we can do is "trust" that the people we elect do the right thing.

So far, that hasn't happened yet.

But if I see one more synchophantic I *heart* Iran post, I swear I'm going to punch a kitten in the face!

What would the right thing be?


And aww no! Punch a politician in the face but not a kitten!

originally posted by: TinfoilTP
It could be they are using the same designs and their technicians at the underground testing when N Korea detonated real nukes, got positive confirmation on their feasibility.

Yes. Having a place in N.K. for Iran to test their weapons underground would absolutely allow Iran to develop and test under the cover of NK testing...allowing Iran to continue to avoid sanctions while they continue to develop and test.

Underground nuke tests happening in North Korea? Who would know they were actually testing Iranian nukes?

originally posted by: crazyewok


What would the right thing be?


And aww no! Punch a politician in the face but not a kitten!

There is no "right thing".

There is only, degrees of crappy things left on the table.

The "right" thing passed us a loo-oong time ago.

The closest we could get to doing the "right" thing is getting an honest leader.

Somewhere.
Anywhere.

I don't care.

And have that honest leader start telling us the truth.

Until then, we're just left with our liars and cheats.

And I'm serious.

A kitten will get punched.

If all Iran wants is a nuclear reactor for power, why doesn't America simply state, "We'll have a team of engineers here in 48 hours. We will help you build one, power it, and you'll have clean nuclear energy for ever."

originally posted by: beezzer
If all Iran wants is a nuclear reactor for power, why doesn't America simply state, "We'll have a team of engineers here in 48 hours. We will help you build one, power it, and you'll have clean nuclear energy for ever."

Maybe that will be part of the deal?

To be honnest we dont know much about it.

I have heard they might get help to make there uranium as good as it can be without makeing it weapons grade ect.


Even though the UK is in the talks we hear about as much as you guys,

Plus even though obama may be a fool least us brits have your back, we are normaly pretty good at diplomacy.

And Uk and france wont agree to a nuclear armed Iran, we made that clear.

I'm confident the IAEA is hard at work and fully competent.

Monitoring and Verification in DPRK


and

Fact Sheet on DPRK Nuclear Safeguards

1980s: Origins of Nuclear Safeguards. On 12 December 1985 the Democratic People´s Republic of Korea (DPRK) became a party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT). On 10 April 1992 the NPT Safeguards Agreement entered into force (INFCIRC/403). Before that, in 1977, the country had concluded an INFCIRC/66 type Safeguards Agreement (INFCIRC/252) for two nuclear research facilities (the IRT research reactor and a critical assembly).


April 2009. IAEA Inspectors Depart. IAEA inspectors at the Yongbyon nuclear facilities removed safeguards equipement and left the country on 16 April 2009, following the DPRK decision to cease all cooperation with the IAEA.

originally posted by: beezzer
If all Iran wants is a nuclear reactor for power, why doesn't America simply state, "We'll have a team of engineers here in 48 hours. We will help you build one, power it, and you'll have clean nuclear energy for ever."

Because Iran needs something to negotiate with and nukes are it has. Up until they started working on them they had zero chance of getting off santions. Iran does not want nukes, Iran wants what giving them will get it. These people are not stupid they know a nuke means war.

The other thing I might add.

A nuclear armed Iran would not be popular in Iran with the people.

As I have mentioned before I went to uni with many persians and they were pretty anti nuclear.

In fact the younger generation seems very unhappy with the current goverment.

I would not be surprised if Iran goverment considered nukes but have backed down due to the rising anti goverment sentiment.

originally posted by: MrSpad

originally posted by: beezzer
If all Iran wants is a nuclear reactor for power, why doesn't America simply state, "We'll have a team of engineers here in 48 hours. We will help you build one, power it, and you'll have clean nuclear energy for ever."

Because Iran needs something to negotiate with and nukes are it has. Up until they started working on them they had zero chance of getting off santions. Iran does not want nukes, Iran wants what giving them will get it. These people are not stupid they know a nuke means war.

I wish i could make a thread on Iran with all your comments quoted


You put it all into words better than I am.


Honestly I think you have the situation down and agree with you 100% on this topic which is rare as I have disagreed with you in the past on many things.

a reply to: MrSpad

Why are sanctions on Iran in the first place?

originally posted by: MrSpad

originally posted by: beezzer
If all Iran wants is a nuclear reactor for power, why doesn't America simply state, "We'll have a team of engineers here in 48 hours. We will help you build one, power it, and you'll have clean nuclear energy for ever."

Because Iran needs something to negotiate with and nukes are it has. Up until they started working on them they had zero chance of getting off santions. Iran does not want nukes, Iran wants what giving them will get it. These people are not stupid they know a nuke means war.

You have a lot of faith in a nation run by a religious sect that doesn't care one iota for its people, only what they determine their magic man in the sky has prophesied for them. Their human rights abuses alone prove this. They believe in prophesies of the end days and that they will face great tribulations, they expect it and look forward to it. They do not walk into peace talks looking to avoid these prophesies but to make them come true.

"If a day comes when the world of Islam is duly equipped with the arms Israel has in possession," he said "the strategy of colonialism would face a stalemate because application of an atomic bomb would not leave anything in Israel but the same thing would just produce damages in the Muslim world." Ayatollah Ali Akbar Hashemi-Rafsanjani

The Palestinians would be under those mushroom clouds, but they are taught their magic man in the sky will protect them.

Here is a whole history of Nuke negotiations with Iran which started in 2003 by European nations and continue to this day.
Good read.

Source to Read

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: MrSpad

originally posted by: beezzer
If all Iran wants is a nuclear reactor for power, why doesn't America simply state, "We'll have a team of engineers here in 48 hours. We will help you build one, power it, and you'll have clean nuclear energy for ever."

Because Iran needs something to negotiate with and nukes are it has. Up until they started working on them they had zero chance of getting off santions. Iran does not want nukes, Iran wants what giving them will get it. These people are not stupid they know a nuke means war.

You have a lot of faith in a nation run by a religious sect that doesn't care one iota for its people, only what they determine their magic man in the sky has prophesied for them. Their human rights abuses alone prove this. They believe in prophesies of the end days and that they will face great tribulations, they expect it and look forward to it. They do not walk into peace talks looking to avoid these prophesies but to make them come true.

"If a day comes when the world of Islam is duly equipped with the arms Israel has in possession," he said "the strategy of colonialism would face a stalemate because application of an atomic bomb would not leave anything in Israel but the same thing would just produce damages in the Muslim world." Ayatollah Ali Akbar Hashemi-Rafsanjani

The Palestinians would be under those mushroom clouds, but they are taught their magic man in the sky will protect them.

It requires no faith its is a simple matter of survival for Irans leadership. The people are pro West and could revolt at anytime. The military is not trusted to support the Government so it has been neglected in favor of the loyal Revolutionary guard. It's only allies Russia, is weak and isolated and Syria which does not even control half of its own country. It is surrouded by threats and enemies, The Arab States, The West, ISIS, Israel who all would take a swing at an Iran with a nuke. It economy is in shambles and it has tons of oil and natural gas it can not produce or sell.

Iran is not Cuba where the nobody but, the US supported santions, they are not just going be able to say ok we give up lets be friends. Iran has to give something huge up as a show of good faith. Its nukes are all it has. It tried helping the US out in Afganistan to build some good will against a common enemy and it has done so again against ISIS.

If the US allows the Gulf States to keep their royal families then the Religious leaders of Iran see that so long as they back the US they can stay alive and in power. While at the same time ending any domestic issues with a tons of new jobs and a big boost in the standard of living.

These talks are vital to Irans leadership who know the US is always willing make a deal when it is in the US best interest as they learned from Reagan who sold them arms at a time when relashions were at the absolute worst.

The winners in this deal are the US/West and Iran. The losers in this deal are Israel who loses its biggest threat and excuse to act as it does and most likely US protection at the UN, the Saudi's who might lose their spot as the regional leader, Russia who will see a flood of new oil and natural gas on the market. However, like any nation both the US and Iran are concern with themselves first and that is why these talks are in the best interest of both.

Iran is no better or worse than Egypt and the Gulf States were when we allied with them.

originally posted by: IAMTAT
a reply to: crazyewok

Yea, I suppose you're right...we should just pretend that secret North Korean military base housing Iranian missile and nuclear weapons specialists doesn't exist.

And we should keep pretending that secret Israeli military installations housing U.S. missiles and nuclear weaponry do not exist, right.

a reply to: MrSpad

I don't even think Israel looses that...

Realistically Israel gets scared because it's so small a single Nuke could end it, but the situation where Iran can strike, assure a hit and certainly not have every single city die in fire doesn't exist and it would maybe take a lot for it too exist, untested nukes, untested delivery systems going against Israel it's missile defenses the US missile defenses and then Israel likely has serious first strike potential via the subs the bought from Germany the year before... I don't put it past Israel to have back packs and well...

@OP

Really?

Why do people have China as a part of anything, friends with the Pakistanis who don't want Iran to have a Nuke, NOT actually friends with NK who is embarrassing and dangerous to their interests as all heck... China's biggest trading partners. South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, USA... If knocking out every penny they make was an option to secure territory there are 1/5th as many people in Siberia 1/12th as many people in Mongolia and around as many people in Kazakhstan as there are people in Beijing alone lol.... It's not South Korea or Tokyo they would be after with the Zero resources available after a crazy UN fires a Nuke...

Not to mention they need the oil flowing, China's modernization ends in 30 minutes if the region goes up in smoke...

Good chance about the only way China will invade anyone is if they discovered NK is sending Nukes to places their economy depends on or tried anything or risked that against it's biggest trading partners.

So not real my friend.