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UK Elections

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posted on Mar, 31 2015 @ 04:49 AM
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As the Tories are likely to gain the lion's share of the votes, I'm going to vote Labour. Helping to force coalitions is the closest that we're likely to get to proportional representation.




posted on Mar, 31 2015 @ 04:51 AM
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a reply to: Meduzi

I see you're thinking, but strangely, Labour are more against any kind of PR system than even the Tories as it would harm them the most. By voting Labour to "force a coalition" - although that is going to happen anyway - you're reinforcing the Labour thinking that people agree with what they are saying.

If you genuinely want PR, then you should vote Liberal, or Green, or one of the other smaller parties. They are all asking for it.



posted on Mar, 31 2015 @ 04:58 AM
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a reply to: stumason

There were certainly secret intelligence service and police involved in the cover up, but that doesn't change the fact the current Tory party advice to police is 'if you speak about this,m you will lose your job' according for Scotland Yard. Tories always have and only will act in the interests of elites even if it means literally f'ing kids over.,

Going back to GDP figures, are you aware the only reason it looks like the economy is growing is because Osborne changed GDP measures to include prostitution and drugs to mask the real -2.3% decline in GDP?



posted on Mar, 31 2015 @ 05:06 AM
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originally posted by: bastion
a reply to: stumason

There were certainly secret intelligence service and police involved in the cover up, but that doesn't change the fact the current Tory party advice to police is 'if you speak about this,m you will lose your job' according for Scotland Yard. Tories always have and only will act in the interests of elites even if it means literally f'ing kids over.,


"Current Tory advice"? Is it? Are you sure?

Thereas May - "Whitleblowers should have immunity"


originally posted by: bastion
Going back to GDP figures, are you aware the only reason it looks like the economy is growing is because Osborne changed GDP measures to include prostitution and drugs to mask the real -2.3% decline in GDP?


Er, no. That was an EU wide initiative and nothing to do with Osborne. and I really doubt that prostitution and drugs make up more than 4% of the economy - as it would have to in order to "mask a real -2.3% GDP decline".

Prostitution and drugs make up £11 Billion of UK economy - RT

Which means they actually make up 0.36% of the economy.

Of course, if you have anything to back this up, I'm all ears.



posted on Mar, 31 2015 @ 05:35 AM
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Interesting to note that supporters of all major parties on this thread all seem to buy into myth that reducing the deficit and by extension national debt is the priority.
Our current debt isn't really a problem and the drive to reduce it ideological on the part of the tories and spin on the part of labour.



posted on Mar, 31 2015 @ 05:39 AM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot
Interesting to note that supporters of all major parties on this thread all seem to buy into myth that reducing the deficit and by extension national debt is the priority.
Our current debt isn't really a problem and the drive to reduce it ideological on the part of the tories and spin on the part of labour.


Its simple economics.

Even though we own most the debt if we dont treat it seriously then it has big effects on our economy

Our currency is fiat. Therefore its only worth what the world is willing to trade in it.
Reckless debt management will reduce confidence in the UK economy which means less confidence in the pound that leads to less investments and less jobs and as a result less money for the government in tax revenue.

You dont even need a debt default for that to happen. If the UK losses the appearance of good spending practices and debt manage the international community will drop use of the pound and forgo UK business.
edit on 31-3-2015 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 31 2015 @ 05:39 AM
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You're trusting a Theresa May soundbite over a Scotland Yard official statement?

According to the ONS own figures it contributed £65Bn in 2009 (5% GDP) which has since risen.www.ons.gov.uk... anges-on-current-price-gdp-estimates.html EU rules only came into effect in September, in the monhs prior to this Osborne included the figures in GDP estimates from May onwardsto make it seem like the UK economy wqs growing in comparisson to other member states.
edit on 31-3-2015 by bastion because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 31 2015 @ 05:39 AM
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edit on 31-3-2015 by ScepticScot because: messed up post



posted on Mar, 31 2015 @ 05:47 AM
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a reply to: crazyewokBut as I have pointed out before our current levels of debt are all within historical norms. As we have our own currency and large developed economy we really have nothing to fear from current debt levels.
The fact that we have a fiat currency is completely irrelevant, all countries have fiat currencies and this is a good thing *controversial to say in ats I know).
The misplaced emphasis on austerity has done more to harm the economy that the debt levels ever have.



posted on Mar, 31 2015 @ 05:51 AM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: crazyewokBut as I have pointed out before our current levels of debt are all within historical norms. As we have our own currency and large developed economy we really have nothing to fear from current debt levels.
The fact that we have a fiat currency is completely irrelevant, all countries have fiat currencies and this is a good thing *controversial to say in ats I know).
The misplaced emphasis on austerity has done more to harm the economy that the debt levels ever have.



Yes

But deficit spending means that debt still rises and will at some point reach crisis level.


The UK does not need to deficit spend.

Better to rein it in now than in 10 or 20 years time when debt does reach crisis point like post WW2 Briton.

And austerity is not necessarily a bad thing. Im not keen on the public service cuts.

But there is plenty of pork in the UK public sector. Like the council workers on 6 figure salary's, war on drugs, foreign aid to India and China ect.

In fact if the UK cut foreign aid we would not have to cut anything else!



posted on Mar, 31 2015 @ 05:54 AM
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a reply to: stumason




he UK hasn't maintained it's AAA rating? Funny that, because it seems they have...


The U.K haven't maintained The AAA Credit rating with Fitch. Take a look at your link.

www.tradingeconomics.com...

Osbourne Humiliated.

www.newstatesman.com...



posted on Mar, 31 2015 @ 05:56 AM
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a reply to: crazyewok

All this talk of deficit.

Has everyone forgotten that to pay down a deficit in an economy based on debt, is functionally impossible without shutting the entire currency down?



posted on Mar, 31 2015 @ 05:56 AM
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a reply to: alldaylong

One agency downgraded us to one below AAA - the others didn't and kept us at the top. Kind of makes your whole point a bit, well, pointless really.



posted on Mar, 31 2015 @ 05:57 AM
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a reply to: ScepticScot

Buying into the myth? Not at all - I've actually said many times on ATS that the debt level isn't that big of a deal, however, left unchecked and unmanaged it will become so..

Pretty much what Crazey said, really...



posted on Mar, 31 2015 @ 05:58 AM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: crazyewok

All this talk of deficit.

Has everyone forgotten that to pay down a deficit in an economy based on debt, is functionally impossible without shutting the entire currency down?


Not really.

If we cut foreign aid on its own we could be running a surplus in a year or two.

Deficit is different from the debt. though both are linked as a Deficits means the debt will rise.



posted on Mar, 31 2015 @ 05:59 AM
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originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: crazyewokBut as I have pointed out before our current levels of debt are all within historical norms. As we have our own currency and large developed economy we really have nothing to fear from current debt levels.
The fact that we have a fiat currency is completely irrelevant, all countries have fiat currencies and this is a good thing *controversial to say in ats I know).
The misplaced emphasis on austerity has done more to harm the economy that the debt levels ever have.



Yes

But deficit spending means that debt still rises and will at some point reach crisis level.


The UK does not need to deficit spend.

Better to rein it in now than in 10 or 20 years time when debt does reach crisis point like post WW2 Briton.

And austerity is not necessarily a bad thing. Im not keen on the public service cuts.

But there is plenty of pork in the UK public sector. Like the council workers on 6 figure salary's, war on drugs, foreign aid to India and China ect.

In fact if the UK cut foreign aid we would not have to cut anything else!


We created the welfare state, NHS, public housing etc.. while in the post ww2 debt ehich was far higher than in recent years and the debt went down after their creatoion. It's purely an ideological/political stance by the tories to say we need to privatise everything and scrap welfare as, in real terms, we have the lowest debt and deficit for 500 years or more. Completely agree about local government officials on crazy sallaries though.



posted on Mar, 31 2015 @ 06:01 AM
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originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: crazyewokBut as I have pointed out before our current levels of debt are all within historical norms. As we have our own currency and large developed economy we really have nothing to fear from current debt levels.
The fact that we have a fiat currency is completely irrelevant, all countries have fiat currencies and this is a good thing *controversial to say in ats I know).
The misplaced emphasis on austerity has done more to harm the economy that the debt levels ever have.



.

Better to rein it in now than in 10 or 20 years time when debt does reach crisis point like post WW2 Briton.



Begs the question on how after the second world war we were skint but we managed to build a welfare state, a Health service and build millions of social houses. As opposed to now, after we have paid off our historical war debts, the Government (a Stu) are telling us we've never had it so good, but our health service is in tatters, no social houses being built or what's left of them maintained and the welfare state is being dismantled bit by bit... ?
edit on 31-3-2015 by Soloprotocol because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 31 2015 @ 06:05 AM
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a reply to: crazyewok

As I said im not a fan of welfare cuts or NHS cuts.


But there are plenty of cuts to be made elsewhere.

Just legalizing and taxing pot I read could net the UK a billion alone.

Cutting the foreign Aid to China and India £300 million.

We send about 14 Billion away in foreign aid. Seeing how poorly its spent I cut it in half.



posted on Mar, 31 2015 @ 06:09 AM
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a reply to: crazyewok

You are absolutely right, but also totally wrong.

Paying down THIS debt will not solidify our economy, because our economy is based on some people having an awful lot, and many, MANY others being forced to borrow money by way of never being paid enough to actually function their existence. This means that no matter what happens with the deficit, the structural problem will still exist, and will still bite us in the rear later on. So we are currently paying to shore up a structure which does not benefit the people, and weakens the pound as a currency.

Why are there no political parties whose intention is to re-establish the Gold Standard, and do away with debt based economy structure entirely? Why is it that the only options we are being offered are collapse now, or collapse later? Why is it that no one seems to want to address the core of the financial crisis, rather than the symptoms of it?

Not one party in this country has a clue how to protect our economy, how to solidify the position of the British citizen in terms of their financial security. Why is it that the only people getting votes these days are those who participate in the shell game, rather than those who seek to upset the apple cart?



posted on Mar, 31 2015 @ 06:09 AM
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originally posted by: bastion
You're trusting a Theresa May soundbite over a Scotland Yard official statement?


Got a link for that statement?


originally posted by: bastion
According to the ONS own figures it contributed £65Bn in 2009 (5% GDP) which has since risen.www.ons.gov.uk... anges-on-current-price-gdp-estimates.html


You're link is broken - you've also totally misunderstood whatever it is you were reading. It certainly DID NOT contribute £65 Billion to the economy in 2009, but actually around £10 Billion.

However, what you have done (if deliberately, very sly) is taken the adjustment to the GDP figures as a result of the EU rule changes and assumed the entire figure was for drugs and prostitution alone, when it also includes spending by charities and investment in research and development which added just over £50 Billion to the economy in 2009.



In November 2013, the ONS released a note explaining what would be included in the
annual national accounts in autumn 2014.12 In May 2014, the ONS published an article
explaining how it has gone about measuring illegal drugs and prostitution and what effect
their inclusion would have on GDP.13 In 2012, these illegal activities contributed £8.4 billion
towards nominal GDP (0.5% of the total).

Link to Parliamentary Report



originally posted by: bastion
EU rules only came into effect in September, in the monhs prior to this Osborne included the figures in GDP estimates to make it seem like the UK economy wqs growing in comparisson to other member states.


Again, you have either misunderstood or are attempting to paint something that it isn't. The rules were known about for a long while prior to 2014, as the ONS had to tabulate the numbers. It had nothing to do with Osborne, the ONS are the ones who do the numbers and the rules said that historic GDP figures (back to 1997) had to recalculated as well, which is actually what led to the UK being given a bill by the EU for more money owed.

As for growth - whether you use the old numbers or the new numbers, the bottom line remains the same which is the economy experienced growth. It wasn't actually that much of a difference, all said and done, at best adding 1.3% over the old figures.




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