YES US TROOPS were hit by SARIN in GF1

a reply to: SensiblyReckless

I was thinking action rather than just the word "sorry"...


So not so warped as you might think.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Sir this was a time of world war. Please put that into context.

The japanese were one of the most brutal and genocidal forces in the war. The civilian population was directly conscripted into military service or war time production and saw first hand prisoners being used as slave labor and the conditions they underwent while in captivity. There were FEW innocents in Japan. The fervor was thick and well distributed.

What do you think would have happened if the US was invaded or bombed by Japan? That our babies, pregnant women, pensioners, Disabled, children and everyone else would have been spared? AND the Japanese have never denied their intentions of invading and bombing us all to hell.

You know that is not the case. You know they would not have spared us like they did not spare ANY CIVILIAN population they came across...Your post is everything that is wrong with perspective and understanding in the west.

You accuse others of wearing rose colored glasses but you yourself wear crap colored glasses. The US was at war, WTF do you think happens to war time powers? What the US did to japan was as bad if not less so than everything the Japanese military, government, AND PEOPLE did willingly and without regret to countless MILLIONS.

I dont see the point in apologizing either. WHAT? We are going to ask for "I AM SORRY" letters or actions and China is and the Pacific Islands are, asking Japan to make penance for the mass theft, mass rape, and mass genocide of captives and civilian populations? Really.

Is poland going to ask Germany and Russia to ask for forgiveness and make amends for invading them, killing untold hundreds of thousands of them and starting world war 2?

The list is endless. How about you get your head out of your butt.

a reply to: tadaman

Yeah I know it's war and that's not an excuse.

Wasn't an excuse for the Nazis, isn't an excuse for ISIS & I don't accept it as an excuse from anyone else.



Atrocity is atrocity...
& cannot be glossed over as good intentions with best wishes!




What can I say, we think differently, so be it!


Of course, my head must be up my arse, because I'm not parroting what the propaganda said at the time!!!

Clearly, you need to stop the mouth to ass with yourself!

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

War wasnt the excuse for war?!?! That doesnt even make sense. The Nazis acted to supposedly protect their ethnic cousins that were left under foreign rule after WW1 sliced their country up and that of the Austrian empire and to remove what they thought were unfair reparations for WW1.

You are parroting propaganda as well. Only more recent and from a revisionist perspective.

There is literally no excuse sought after. It was simply war and everyone did horrible things. Only a few people in todays age try to look back with a tone of blame for the US while ignoring the rest of the countries and atrocities. That is because propaganda is timeless and every age is subject to it....and every people, including those like yourself. I dont see you making a stink about the mass rape and genocide by Japan....I dont see you making a stink about the mass genocide of Russia...Its like no one else fought in WW2 in your mind.

Since your focus is exclusively on the US I would say that you are less than fair and are being less than honest in your supposed intolerance of atrocities.

a reply to: cavtrooper7

I'm surprised some of YOU LADIES AND GENTLEMEN are surprised. But i give all my love in the world to everyr one of u reading this and to TPTB for they truly do not know the evils that they are doing. Becuase if they did, they wouldn't be doing it...

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
What is done in secrecy will mark the US far worse than NAZI germany.

Oddly enough that's where we got the recopes for these agents from. Operation paperclip pointed out all the goods that were to be had after getting our hands on German scientists.

a reply to: tadaman

What "revisionist propaganda" says that using nukes on civillians no matter what has occured is a bad thing?

I missed a pot of gold with that one.


Common sense told me that, not "revisionist propaganda"...




& by your reasoning, WW1 never ended for the Nazis...

So everything they did was justifiable and no need for an apology in their mind!





Your flag waving will only earn you so much...
It'll lose what matters most though!


& my focus isn't the U.S...

The U.S. is the focus of the thread!

Start a thread about UK colonialist atrocities and I'll say the same thing!!!



& btw, I quite readily stated the Nazis don't have a chance to redeem themselves...

They're still hunted down...




The U.S. can!

a reply to: cavtrooper7

i am often fiercely critical of the military. And often that comes across as being critical of our soldiers. That just isn't true....and cases like this are a good example of that.

I feel soldiers have been duped. Sold a bill of goods. They sign up for "service to country" (and often do provide a service to their country...but not always) and end up being used as a "resource". Just another piece of meat for the grinder. I find that to be absolutely reprehensible.

The military has a long history of screwing its vets over, and poisoning them. They also seem to do it to us regular civilians...just not as much.

In any event, I feel for you. My brother in law served in the first gulf war, and has his own issues he has thus far been successful working through. You were screwed by the people you trusted to get your back.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

I really dont see how asking for honest perspective is "flag waving".

Also the thread isnt about the US dropping bombs on Japan. Its about the serious issue of our veterans being denied treatment after exposure to chemical weapons that the US AND EUROPE had a part in building and giving to Iraq, but that everyone denies a part in building including Russia.

I know it doesnt get old for you, but it is old. The faces of evil in the world arent all neatly located under American flags.

You wont get anywhere by alienating Americans by an over sensitive sense of disdain for the US. You also will be hindering your efforts if you grossly ignore perhaps the other half or the head of the beast you so adamantly hate. If the US is all to blame for everything, then everything it is not to blame for goes unpunished since the forces doing their share elsewhere will be left impune to do so perpetually.

How about YOU start a thread about the culpability of the US dropping bombs during WW2. Oh wait, there are several already...and none to few showcasing the other atrocities I mentioned. How honest.

OR how about "this is old". A decade and half of calling people on being hyper critical of the US being answered with inferences of being a blind patriot is retarded and boring.

Do you want me to write you new material? I am half serious. This is just lame.

p.s. Saying there were civilians there doesnt exclude the fact that both cities were MAJOR manufacturing and development centers for weapons and troops. They were valid military targets....just like Hawaii was even though it too has always been teeming with civilians.

A response to tadaman: Exactly. You would think that Japan was just sitting there minding its own business when we dropped two nukes on them. You wouldn't even know they had committed all of the atrocities left in their wake to hear it told on ATS. The entire World was at war, essentially. And Japan utterly refused to stop. I will make no apologies for the strict terms the US demanded of them as part of their surrender and I will not feel badly about the bombs that were dropped on them. Japan sided with aggression and a misguided plan at World domination. So, again, they reaped what they had sown.

I joined because I WAS a warrior and felt THAT was my place.
It wasn't about patriotism but more who I am inside,and what I could do with it.
Ethically ,MORALLY? I have honor ,(THERES A DEAD WORD) and I never do see it in civilians as powerfully as some poor shub who gets up and fights and DIES for his unit.
I felt I could and performed as such.
I am still interested in warfare and preserving a TRADITIONAL America ,but... I SAW the faces on the news growing up about how the black people were treated. IT WILL always be a fuel of anger that these BIGOTED skin issues still plague us.
I DON'T really care about THAT or GAYS they are FINE to exist beside me. BUT when they attack ME as a group because of what SOME IDIOTS have done,or my FAITH,I wonder why they haven't learned passed Jr,High ,how to fuction correctly.
I don't WANT to kill any nation or people,but I sure as HELL won't take any S##T for what my nation has done in the passed EITHER.
I WOULD gladly see the purpatrators be punished for what has been done. THEY have the money I don't.
We are ALMOST beginning to grasp the FACT that Jihadists and ISLAM are not a unified group( I have liked many Muslims)
If you think people like me should be killed ,WHAT ELSE do you expect me to say?
COME try.

Kissinger referred pointedly to military men as 'dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy'.

What a eyeopener thread!, the link you provided disturbed me to quite a degree and then some.
I consider myself anti military but after reading your OP I am really angry about how details are coming to light and the resistance to admit something is wrong.

As said by "BigFatFurryTexan" above.....

I feel soldiers have been duped. Sold a bill of goods. They sign up for "service to country" (and often do provide a service to their country...but not always) and end up being used as a "resource". Just another piece of meat for the grinder. I find that to be absolutely reprehensible.

I could not agree more after reading your OP and the link you provided.
S&F
Iwinder

a reply to: cavtrooper7

It disgusts me how politicians can condemn young men and women like yourself to a life of hardship and health issues with a swipe of a pen. They send troops into harms way, yet they do nothing to insure your protection during or after the conflict. Yet they will be the first ones posing with our troops for a political photo grab.

We need to stop using our young men and women to fight conflicts that are not a direct threat to our homeland. We need to stop policing the world and let other countries take care of their own neighborhoods.

Calling the same politicians that sent you to your death is not going to get anything done. Here's what you do. You go down and you get a 6x9 sheet of plywood and make a sign.. "I was poisoned in IRAQ and the VA won't pay for it." Sit out in front of the VA hospital on the most busy street. Then they have no choice. Never give these assholes a choice. Excuse my french.

a reply to: sean

You'd like to think that taking an action such as that would help, but let's be honest the VA isn't being recognized for providing extrodinary care right now. It feels as if in some places they don't care at all about the population they serve. I just listen to a radio talk show with "whistleblowers" on it, the lack of adequate staff and training was disturbing. What's happening with applications for disability claims is equally bad and no improvement seems tobe on the horizon. Civilians are going to have to back and empower these soldiers to resolve this.

www.military.com...

The will award the chemically exposed the troops FROM THE SECOND war in Iraq,NOT US.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: cavtrooper7

I'd like to know what is causing all the auto-immune issues with vets.

SnF

It's not over, not by a long shot.

Just out of curiosity, how many of you were given Cipro or Levaquin? Fluoroquinolones are mitochondrial disrupters.

a reply to: cavtrooper7

I am confused, and perhaps this is just another illustration of how weird and illogical our govt has become.

No (or virtually no) WMD's were reported as being found, even though that produced a political hit for the admin and party in charge.

So..if there were WMD's it would seem likely the Admin would have waved that flag long, often and repeatedly and yet they did not.

Given the problems vets experienced even shortly after returning from GF1 I have felt that there was something that was used or discovered that troops had been exposed to. This article, more or less, confirms that... and yet it leaves the question:

Why were WMD's not reported thereby supporting the reason for invading Iraq in the first place?

a reply to: wondering5740

What you are seeing with the VA is the result of govt controlled health care. The result of govt red-tape, the result of budget based healthcare, the result of politics etc etc etc.

There is no real deep dark conspiracy to screw vets...there is red tape, there are budgets that are too small, there are leaders who are more interested in being re-elected than doing the right thing.

Anyone with much experience with the Fed govt can imagine and probably will be pretty close to the mark regarding what is going on at the VA.

Budgets, red tape, bureaucracy and politics make terrible bed fellows and explains why the private sector can do ANYTHING more efficiently than our govt can.

Our federal govt is a bloated, stinking, cesspool of corruption, red tape and stupid stupid bureacracy.