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Personal emotions sometimes damaging reasoned debate...

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posted on Mar, 28 2015 @ 11:54 AM
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a reply to: FyreByrd

I like your point on identity. But our identify is the amazing way we adapt to the world we live in exponentially with blips of negative and positive progress. Let us not forget though we are in the most incredible Renaissance this world has ever seen. After literacy blew up we now have unprecedented access to information and communication as I post this from a phone smarter than my "powerful" computer of just years ago.




posted on Mar, 28 2015 @ 11:55 AM
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Personal emotions sometimes damaging reasoned debate...


I've found that some people assume emotions coming from the other person, and those emotions aren't there. I've experienced people saying ''you are uptight' or 'you are pissed' or 'you are holding a grudge' or 'you are ____
(fill in emotion of choice) and other things, and I chuckle because I'll be sitting here emotionless just posting words and not really feeling much of anything while doing it.

People will assume another is picking a fight or that they are all intense, and a lot of the time it's just not the case. At least, that's been my experience.



posted on Mar, 28 2015 @ 11:57 AM
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a reply to: grainofsand

I've learned one thing over the years. people look at things differently. I studied a lot over the last six or seven years yet I still tend to look at certain things occasionally without considering other things others are looking at. There are more than two sides to a story, in fact there are many applications for evidence presented most times. I do not want to be narrow minded as others I have known were.

It pays to have a little ADD at times. www.sciencedaily.com...



posted on Mar, 28 2015 @ 11:59 AM
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originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
There are many people here that I vehemently disagree with on certain subjects, but I celebrate when we find something we agree on.

Yep. You and I would probably be throwing rotten tomatoes at each other outside a military recruiting station, but we'd stroll arm in arm at a marriage equality parade. (not really with the tomatoes, but you get the idea). People have more in common than not. But for some reason the focus is usually on what the differences are.



posted on Mar, 28 2015 @ 11:59 AM
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a reply to: FlyersFan

Often a logical fallacy if used in course of debate, or a tool of deflection. Other times it's insecurity showing through their emotion propagating and losing logic linear rebuttal. Best place to see emotion in an unhealthy form or logical fallacies in their purist is politicians on campaign.



posted on Mar, 28 2015 @ 12:06 PM
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originally posted by: SLAYER69

Sticks and stones will break my bones
But words will never harm me.

My Grandmother, 1972

She's gone now, Wise woman....

True story.


The one I recall, from my Father:

"God gave you two ears and only one mouth for a reason."



posted on Mar, 28 2015 @ 12:13 PM
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originally posted by: FyreByrd
What is particularly worrying to be it the fact that 'reasoned discussion' triggers 'defense mechanisms' in so many people. When I was young, in school and starting to work in the world IDEAS were not considered threats to ones identity.


Agreed. People identify with their opinions so strongly that an attack on an opinion is taken as a personal attack. There's also the tendency to label others based on their opinions about one thing... You support marriage equality, you must be a bleeding heart liberal, waiting for the government to send you your monthly check... (Like FlyersFan! LOL!)



posted on Mar, 28 2015 @ 12:16 PM
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I'm sure you see the same charged up emotions from people that you see in Road Rage. It's the same effect really. Well similar enough at least. Ok maybe it related. Alright it might not be. Ok again, it isn't.

There...no arguing with that theory cause I hedged it massively!



posted on Mar, 28 2015 @ 12:19 PM
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originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: FyreByrd

I like your point on identity. But our identify is the amazing way we adapt to the world we live in exponentially with blips of negative and positive progress. Let us not forget though we are in the most incredible Renaissance this world has ever seen. After literacy blew up we now have unprecedented access to information and communication as I post this from a phone smarter than my "powerful" computer of just years ago.


We have unprecedented access, true; but whether it that access provides us information or 'noise' is difficult and requires a good education and constant vigilance.

Notice how the 'access' is focused on 'outthere'', it's becoming more and more difficult to find information about your own town, county, state and those issues that really effect one's life.

We live in an age of homogenization. Big media requires big consumption. Individual attention is herded and corraled by this need for big attention to little content, our attention is driven to the points that big business wants us to see.

See "The Filter Bubble" by Eli Pariser.

By design or natural emergence of the system is immaterial, it causes our attention to be sucked into what big business wants it on and not on what is of real import to us as individuals.



posted on Mar, 28 2015 @ 12:22 PM
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a reply to: FyreByrd

It is a transition that has transpired so quickly I would be more amazed if it happened seamlessly. I just hope man adapts as we have thus far and with better results than some dark times.


But critical thinking and emotional intelligence will have to be present.



posted on Mar, 28 2015 @ 12:37 PM
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originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
There are many people here that I vehemently disagree with on certain subjects, but I celebrate when we find something we agree on.

Yep. You and I would probably be throwing rotten tomatoes at each other outside a military recruiting station, but we'd stroll arm in arm at a marriage equality parade. (not really with the tomatoes, but you get the idea). People have more in common than not. But for some reason the focus is usually on what the differences are.



As a board certified and card carrying "people like you" being marginalized and an outsider has it's perks; not the least of which is the ability to disinvest the ego from heated topics and the ability to realize that others are as full of BS as you are!!

It's the internet: and to be used only for entertainment purposes!



edit on 28-3-2015 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 28 2015 @ 12:38 PM
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originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: SLAYER69

Sticks and stones will break my bones
But words will never harm me.

My Grandmother, 1972

She's gone now, Wise woman....

True story.


The one I recall, from my Father:

"God gave you two ears and only one mouth for a reason."


My Dad always confused me more than he gave nuggets of wisdom.

Like...

You can lead a horse to water, but you still got to clean up his crap ?

Thanks, Pop



posted on Mar, 28 2015 @ 01:03 PM
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a reply to: grainofsand


LOL, I get these pictures going through my head when someone freaks on one of my posts or replies:


Reply to Infolurker: What! You don't Agree With Me!!!





Look, I am on ATS and I don't like the reply!









Sometimes you just have to laugh it off and be funny!

LOL
edit on 28-3-2015 by infolurker because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 28 2015 @ 02:05 PM
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If anyone wants to test that theory, try making a thread about research findings of high strength cannabis causing psychosis!

Best have a few flameproof umbrellas to hand.



posted on Mar, 28 2015 @ 04:55 PM
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a reply to: CriticalStinker

I agree and those very things must be taught and modeled. During the transition to a 'networked' society, if you will, we have lost many of the things required for such an education: 1) child-care rather then parent care - where good interpersonal and educational habits are modeled on a daily basis; 2) an education system that focuses on exposure to all manner of ideas and situations and, yes, cultures. Marx needs to be taught alongside of Friedman. Mao along side of Washington. Compare and contrast. 3) A free and inquiring Press - with access based on professionalism not idealogy. 4) Local involvement and servant leadership. 5) Ethics in business and government - not as an absolute, but a goal to be respected and worked towards.

I do blame this on an ideaology. The ideaology of neo-liberalism/neo-conservatism where Profit is King and God.

I used to consider myself quite conservative. I.E. its more cost-effective to prevent ________ then to fix ________ after it breaks. Preventative maintence, cheaper to keep things up then wait for them to break. I thought that was conversing resources. Hence I was socially very progressive while at the same time being very fiscally conservative as were many back in the day. Take the rebuilding of Europe and Japan and environs after WWII.

Well I don't recognise anything that is happening as being other then $$$$ uber alles - which, BTW, is the very definition of fascism. The combining of government and business - in our current case - the outsourcing of all functions of government.

Of revelance to this thread (forgive my tangent):


Thus many of the practical expressions of Fascism such as party organization, system of education, and discipline can only be understood when considered in relation to its general attitude toward life. A spiritual attitude (3). Fascism sees in the world not only those superficial, material aspects in which man appears as an individual, standing by himself, self-centered, subject to natural law, which instinctively urges him toward a life of selfish momentary pleasure; it sees not only the individual but the nation and the country; individuals and generations bound together by a moral law, with common traditions and a mission which suppressing the instinct for life closed in a brief circle of pleasure, builds up a higher life, founded on duty, a life free from the limitations of time and space, in which the individual, by self-sacrifice, the renunciation of self-interest, by death itself, can achieve that purely spiritual existence in which his value as a man consists.


leading to this gem:


The Fascist conception of life is a religious one (7), in which man is viewed in his immanent relation to a higher law, endowed with an objective will transcending the in­dividual and raising him to conscious membership of a spiritual society. "Those who perceive nothing beyond opportunistic considerations in the religious policy of the Fascist regime fail to realize that Fascism is not only a system of government but also and above all a system of thought.


and.... boy howdy....


Anti-individualistic, the Fascist conception of life stresses the importance of the State and accepts the individual only in so far as his interests coincide with those of the State, which stands for the conscience and the universal, will of man as a historic entity (11). It is opposed to classical liberalism which arose as a reaction to absolutism and exhausted its historical function when the State became the expression of the conscience and will of the people. Liberalism denied the State in the name of the individual; Fascism reasserts


www.worldfuturefund.org...

Sound familiar??

It's a good read - especially about the Corporative State.





edit on 28-3-2015 by FyreByrd because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 28 2015 @ 05:18 PM
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a reply to: FyreByrd

I totally agree, and it will be hard to break the cycle. And I like your statement about preventing and identifying root causes and addressing them to begin with.


While in the logistics world my mentor taught me to react is to survive and maintain and you'll never get ahead until your proactive and not reactive.



Though there would have to be a society shift on every tier as you said. And it has to start at the top as an example and the rest should fall into place. But unfortunately complacency has driven the developed world, the US in particular, to ignore current events or what our leaders are truly doing, not the MSM reporting press releases handed to them by those in power (same beast as Russia just dressed up differently). Until people hold their officials accountable and offer up goals and standards just like any other profession. Unfortunately the two party system has evolved into the ultimate distraction from a clear path maintained by both parties, appeasing corporate interests which typically stay the same and subsequently the direction of positions.



posted on Mar, 28 2015 @ 05:34 PM
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And to share with you one of my favorite quotes reverting back To the topic of emotional intelligence, this one keeps me in check.


Hagakure "Book of the Samurai"

It is bad when one thing becomes two. One should not look for anything else in the Way of the Samurai. If one understands things in this manner, he should be able to hear about all Ways and be more and more in accord with his own.




If I believe something that any other viewpoint should not bother me or question my own. Should I question the I try to seek out the answer in the correct way.



posted on Mar, 28 2015 @ 06:47 PM
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originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: FyreByrd


Though there would have to be a society shift on every tier as you said. And it has to start at the top as an example and the rest should fall into place.


That's what I was taught that you lead by example not fiat, that respect has to be given in order to be received, and never as another to do what you wouldn't do yourself.

However, I'm not sure that leading from the top is viable. I think another model, leading from the bottom may be what is needed now. Our, for want and propriety of a better word, leaders don't adhere to a servant leadership model or rather they are serving corporate masters rather then citizen masters.

A brief quote from an Obama speech, it was near the first inaugural and I paraphase "..... now make me do it ...." as I take to be an admonition that he didn't have the power (for promised change) unless the citizenry made the change impossible to ignore.

We no longer have the luxury of 'waiting for someone else to do it' we have to build coalitions and movements (right and left - See Ralph Nader) and build them from the bottom up. Look at how the Tea Party has influenced (however insanely) those in power. (And yes I do know that another debate, whether they are truly grass roots or simply tools of the monied class.) A better example would be the Anti-War movement of the late sixties and seventies. And the more recent FCC Title II ruling on Net Neutrality.

If you do lead from the front, you have to walk your talk without fail. JFK could never be elected today, there is no room for flawed humans in todays 'network society. But leading from the bottom doesn't require anyone have absolute integrity - just the never-ending drive towards ultimate integrity.

Yes we need leaders selected from the 'membership' and given the authority to make decision on our behalf. However, they need to respect that the ultimate authority behind their authority is not, as it is now, corporatists but the electorate of natural persons.



posted on Mar, 28 2015 @ 06:51 PM
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a reply to: CriticalStinker

I think I may be confused about the meaning because I read it thus:

I should always be steadfast in my own belief regardless of the beliefs of others. What others may tell me has no bearing on my belief.

That doesn't allow for flexiblity in the face of new facts and circumstances which is not a "wise as a bamboo" asian sort of belief.

Perhaps you have a better reading for me....



posted on Mar, 28 2015 @ 06:59 PM
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a reply to: FyreByrd

Well I'm not a samurai so I don't have to follow it to the T. I just like the last part, the only thing I love more than a person with conviction is one that can be present for a discussion without losing their cool. But I've adapted it to my lifestyle. I believe I should be convicted or else the beliefs are worthless, but open minded because if you ever stop learning in life you need to check your pulse.







 
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