Guide to the FLAT EARTH

a reply to: TheDon

Like I said, I could debunk the video without even watching it. The clouds drop below the horizon. Are you trying to argue for the sake of arguing or something? Your "better" documenter could have at LEAST made a video that wasn't so easy to debunk without even watching it lol.

a reply to: MasterAtArms

This thread was not about belief, it is about presenting some information that i found interesting which i thought others might as well.

No were have i stated that i believe the earth is flat, what I am doing is asking questions.

I get it English is not my first lanuage so some might have trouble understanding me, but i thought it was good enough in my posts to reflect what I am trying to say and have been saying thoughout this thread.

Nobody need to look at the information, and I am not trying to instill any believes on anyone here, just share information and discuss it, but it seems, not suprising that pretty much everyone else whats to instill there believes on others regarding this topic.

a reply to: Krazysh0t
I am not trying to prove anything here btw so you know, unlike others it would seem.

But anyway thank you for your input and opinion.

And no, I am not interested one bit in arguing.

a reply to: TheDon

So you are just asking questions that you already know the answer to? What's the point of pushing this information when you can easily just prove the earth is round for yourself? Why even ask the questions to begin with? They sound pointless to me.

Just to update a bit on this thread.

If anyone is intrested in the videos and do have questions regarding the author and his videos and theory what he has presented, then give him a ring.

I personally just got off the phone with him a little while ago after a long chat, and it was interesting to actually speak to a real person regarding there ideas and thoughts regarding this subject.

If you watch his videos you can find the number at the end or on his youtube page.

So any that have a problem with the information that i presented it would serve you better to actually speak to the author about the content, which you can.

peace.

a reply to: TheDon

So any that have a problem with the information that i presented it would serve you better to actually speak to the author about the content, which you can.

If they post on ATS I'll discuss it with them. Until then, you posted this on a discussion forum so I'd prefer to discuss it with you.

This is similar to someone interested in stage magic rejecting or ignoring all explanations of how the trick is done and insisting that only discussion on how the magician actually saws the woman in half will occur.

Earlier I asked you a very simple question about viewing the Southern Cross, a constellation you CAN'T SEE from your listed location, Sweden, or anywhere on Earth north of about 25 degrees. Aren't you the least bit curious about why that is?

It's only one of many nails in the "Flat Earth" coffin, but requires no space travel or trust in any agency.

a reply to: DenyObfuscation

I know there are many holes in the flat earth theory. And as I have said so many times now in this thread, I am not saying the earth is flat.
The stars as you pointed out, the seasons etc, which off course theories have been provided to back up there claim off the flat earth theory.

3 off the biggest questions I have and also find interesting is that:

1. then all space travel over the last 50+ years would have to have been faked, and by any means that is one seriously big cover up, and I am fully aware how unlikely that is, but if one does research one can find offical NASA videos regarding the shuttles and ISS which IMO are clearly faked, but just because some are faked, it is still a massive claim to say all are fake and the whole NASA and other space programs are fake as well.

But that also leaves a question, why even fake some off the videos? Also if and I say IF, the whole space program was a fake, then what would be so big that they would go to such lengths to cover it up?

2. The flat earth was taught and believed for over 4500 years, but then this changed around 1500AD so for the last 500+ years the globe model was introduced. Why was that?
So for 4500 years the flat year model was good, but then all off a sudden they change the model, even though the fastest form off travel back then was the horse, it is not like they went up in a plane 50km and said wow, we have been wrong the last 4500 years. Yes I know NOW we can do that but why change it back then?

3. Byrd Wall, now if you research him and also his expeditions and the interview he did in the 50s and how he went on about the natual resources etc at the south pole, and then the expeditions just stopped. then a treaty was put into place so no one can basically go there and do anything, and that treaty is still in place and will be at least until 2041, that leaves a big question why?

Pretty much every doom and war thread here on ATS is about countries fighting over resources, but yet no country or company even mentions or talks about the south pole which was reported to have maountains, made off coal which could fuel the whole planet for example.

And there are 3 off my main questions and one off the reasons why I have an interest in the flat earth theory.

I have many other questions also but i will leave it at that for the moment.

Also to be honest, I don't trust the agencies and that is purely based upon the lies that I have seen all off them spew out over the years

I quote I believe that is english which I think is very relevent when one is researching anything is:

fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me

Thanks

Calm down folks, no one is saying it's true. Or freak out, it's your free speech dime.

originally posted by: TheDon
I posted it because i found it interesting, Also I like to keep a very open mind regarding all theories and ideas people have regarding all topic.

I want as much information as possible be it wrong or right.

...we are taught from the moment we go to school that this is it and this is fact and everything else is wrong.

IMO a truely open mind looks at everything, and I mean everything no matter what.

Well I just want to say that I agree with the above and feel the same way in considering all theories that are out there. Even if they are "out there". *smile* It keeps one alert for critical thinking, adds to thoughts which may be expanded upon for theory in the future, and also allows one to see through various efforts to thwart the freedom of thought. Personally, I LIKE thought-provoking, always have and always will. It also makes for some great conversations in real life, for those that do that anymore.

I never did understand why any theory posted in skunkworks (which was made PURPOSELY for these topics, and thusly approved by admin) is so very threatening to some - especially when these theories are merely exercising speculation, and not declaring fact. This is exactly what this forum is for, to ruminate and think outside the box, a fun exercise, no matter the subject. Doesn't anybody remember FUN?


I enjoyed your OP very much TheDon, as well as your further comments (you have much patience!) and I will enjoy watching the series when I have some extra time.

An aside, I LOVE the comments that YouTube should be banned - like we ought to pretend it's not the main website for the format of recordings in our present day and age. I suppose we ought to receive only one manual from the government, from which we all learn the allowed beliefs by rote - that or watch reruns of "Family Guy". I jest.

originally posted by: TheDon
2. The flat earth was taught and believed for over 4500 years, but then this changed around 1500AD so for the last 500+ years the globe model was introduced. Why was that?
So for 4500 years the flat year model was good, but then all off a sudden they change the model, even though the fastest form off travel back then was the horse, it is not like they went up in a plane 50km and said wow, we have been wrong the last 4500 years. Yes I know NOW we can do that but why change it back then?

This is complete revisionist history. The Flat Earth belief is a new belief. For instance, Christopher Columbus wasn't fighting a fear of falling off the edge of the world when he sailed across the Atlantic the first time. He knew the earth was round, as did everyone else. The ancient Greeks had calculated the diameter and circumference of the earth without even rounding the earth.

Myth of the Flat Earth

The myth of the Flat Earth is the modern misconception that the prevailing cosmological view during the Middle Ages saw the Earth as flat, instead of spherical.[1]

During the early Middle Ages, virtually all scholars maintained the spherical viewpoint first expressed by the Ancient Greeks. From at least the 14th century, belief in a flat Earth among the educated was almost nonexistent, despite fanciful depictions in art, such as the exterior of Hieronymus Bosch's famous triptych The Garden of Earthly Delights, in which a disc-shaped Earth is shown floating inside a transparent sphere.[2]

According to Stephen Jay Gould, "there never was a period of 'flat earth darkness' among scholars (regardless of how the public at large may have conceptualized our planet both then and now). Greek knowledge of sphericity never faded, and all major medieval scholars accepted the Earth's roundness as an established fact of cosmology."[3] Historians of science David Lindberg and Ronald Numbers point out that "there was scarcely a Christian scholar of the Middle Ages who did not acknowledge [Earth's] sphericity and even know its approximate circumference".[4]

Historian Jeffrey Burton Russell says the flat-earth error flourished most between 1870 and 1920, and had to do with the ideological setting created by struggles over evolution.[5] Russell claims "with extraordinary [sic] few exceptions no educated person in the history of Western Civilization from the third century B.C. onward believed that the earth was flat", and credits histories by John William Draper, Andrew Dickson White, and Washington Irving for popularizing the flat-earth myth.[6]

a reply to: Krazysh0t

This is complete revisionist history. The Flat Earth belief is a new belief. For instance, Christopher Columbus wasn't fighting a fear of falling off the edge of the world when he sailed across the Atlantic the first time. He knew the earth was round, as did everyone else. The ancient Greeks had calculated the diameter and circumference of the earth without even rounding the earth.

Sorry this is not true, or should I say not all that is recorded in the little history that we are given IMO.

There are many accounts through out history in all off the major religions, that a flat earth was believed to be the earth we live on.

Too many to list or give examples, for and a quick search proves this.

Also I was talking about 500 years ago, many people including Christopher Columbus (might I add is pretty much proven he did not discover the USA as we know it today) have claimed and have navigated the seas off the earth, that is not in dispute, but one can also go around a circle, can one not? if one was to us the flat earth model.

There was no GPS, back then, also on a side note, GPS a US military application and was designed by them, and all systems since then are based on there system, so to believe it is run by the people or public is just silly. back on point, so if no GPS back then they followed the stars etc, north/south etc, so who knows were they were actually going IMO.

a reply to: MoonBlossom

Thanks for the postive words :-)

It is just a forum, bit sad as you pointed out that even this subject is in skunk works, the replies and attitude off people takes some off the fun out off discussing certain topics.

But then I knew that when I posted this topic and as I have stated just wanted to share and discuss a topic that I find very interesting.

Peace.

originally posted by: TheDon
Sorry thisa is not true, or should I say not all that is recorded in the little history that we are given IMO.

There are many accounts through out history in all off the major religions, that a flat earth was believed to be the earth we live on.

Too many to list or give examples, for and a quick search proves this.

That is not what I'm saying. I'm saying YOUR account of history is wrong. I know that other cultures believed in the flat earth theory, but around 500 BC the Ancient Greeks determined the Earth was round and that has been the prevailing theory throughout Europe then the Americas then the world since. It wasn't some sudden change of beliefs 500 years ago, it was an already established idea for centuries.

Declining support for the flat earth

Also I was talking about 500 years ago, many people including Christopher Columbus (might I add is pretty much proven he did not discover the USA as we know it today) have claimed and have navigated the seas off the earth, that is not in dispute, but one can also go around a circle, can one not? if one was to us the flat earth model.

First off, Chris Columbus DID live 500 years ago. He came to the Caribbean in 1492, which is a little over 500 years ago. That's why I brought him up. Also, I didn't say he discovered the USA.

By the way, traversing a globe IS going in a circle.

There was no GPS, back then, also on a side note, GPS a US military application and was designed by them, and all systems since then are based on there system, so to believe it is run by the people or public is just silly. back on point, so if no GPS back then they followed the stars etc, north/south etc, so who knows were they were actually going IMO.

They knew where they were going depending on where the stars were in the sky. This is something only possible from a round earth, since the stars wouldn't move in the sky in relation to your position on the planet on a flat earth. You are disproving your own point.

You keep claiming to believe the earth is round, yet you ask these ridiculous questions and assert the standard flat earth belief myth of the middle ages. Are you being open minded or just obtuse? There has to be a point where you just understand that the earth is round and stop asking questions, because further questions just paints you as closed minded. It's not like you are adopting a scientific viewpoint here. This whole exercise is an exercise in science denialism, and THIS denialism requires you to deny evidence you can reproduce by yourself with out any scientific supervision.

ETA: Don't read too far into what I said in the previous paragraph either. There is nothing wrong with asking questions, but you have to know how to accept the answers.

a reply to: nerbot

You Sir are demonstrating stubborn ignorance. You should spend some time watching these recent videos developed by this gentleman. Don't approach them like an arrogant human who knows everything. Key to receiving knowledge = Open Mind. If these videos don't spark some internal questions, you have the wrong mindset and intentions on this site.

Copernicus Visits China on a Jesuit Mission back in the day...up until that point China was "all in" on the Flat Earth. That right there, tells me that something isn't right. Unless you think the Jesuit's have good intentions.....history proves they do not.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

My account off history is based upon what I have personally researched and believe to be true, note the believe part there.
Everyone that has studied history can give a different acount off it, not only based upon the person but also the location off the person on this planet.

Regarding Chris Columbus, I am very aware off his history and claims, and you have just gone and pointed out a 8 year difference

I am not here to argue points regarding history, I am here to discuss information that i find interesting.

Your beliefs are yours, as mine are mine, and I am not looking to push mine on others at all here.

I find this topic interesting, and posted this thread for other that might and would like to discuss it.

Also I am open minded, but also i will never just say something is fact, and shut the door on it, that would be like shutting my mind.

I am also not in denial either, I just question what I have been taught and also told that is true.

But enough about me

I respect your opinion and points off view and also your beliefs.

a reply to: dollukka

The sun only has one side that we see, like the moon. Its the top of the pyramid that shines upon us. everyone knows that.

originally posted by: TheDon
a reply to: Krazysh0t

My account off history is based upon what I have personally researched and believe to be true, note the believe part there.
Everyone that has studied history can give a different acount off it, not only based upon the person but also the location off the person on this planet.

There is only one history. Real historians piece together history from many different sources to get the true account of what happened instead of just adopting the account that is most popular from the culture the historian is from. As a fan of history, I do that all the time. Much of the history taught to you in school is wrong and misrepresented. Heck the entire Chris Columbus account is completely wrong. You touched on it lightly when you said he didn't discover America and I expanded on it when I said he wasn't proving the earth wasn't flat either. CC was really a slaver who ended up enslaving the natives that he came across in the new world. He isn't to be admired like Eurocentric history likes to do so.

Regarding Chris Columbus, I am very aware off his history and claims, and you have just gone and pointed out a 8 year difference

So when you said 500 years, you meant EXACTLY 500 years and not around 500 years which is what most people mean when they use a round number? Should have clarified that though. Of course if you go down that route then you are even more wrong.

I am not here to argue points regarding history, I am here to discuss information that i find interesting.

Your beliefs are yours, as mine are mine, and I am not looking to push mine on others at all here.

I find this topic interesting, and posted this thread for other that might and would like to discuss it.

Also I am open minded, but also i will never just say something is fact, and shut the door on it, that would be like shutting my mind.

If you find it interesting, fine. But don't pretend like people presenting this idea are anything but frauds or hoaxsters. Again, you can prove on your own that the world is round.

I am also not in denial either, I just question what I have been taught and also told that is true.

But enough about me

I respect your opinion and points off view and also your beliefs.

Questioning what you are taught is fine, but again you have to be willing to accept the answers when they align with what you were taught. How often do you question Newtons three laws of motion? What about questioning gravity? Since we are talking about astronomical bodies, do you question Kepler's laws of planetary motion as well?

a reply to: TheDon

That is your opinion nothing more. You showed no argument at all regarding the videos, you just dismissed them.

What argument, the Earth is not flat and those videos definitely don't help your cause. And it's scientific fact the Earth is not flat...not just my opinion.

SO did you even look at the links I provided, as it shows and explains why the Earth isn't flat...or did you just dismiss them?

Why are we not seeing a dip over the distances? that was the question.

From your own source...



It shows clearly why we don't see the dip over the horizon.

Either way you off course can have your opinion, but your reply does not answer the question.

How is this off course...

If you’ve been next to a port lately, or just strolled down a beach and stared off vacantly into the horizon, you might have, perhaps, noticed a very interesting phenomenon: approaching ships do not just “appear” out of the horizon (like they should have if the world was flat), but rather emerge from beneath the sea.

But – you say – ships do not submerge and rise up again as they approach our view (except in “Pirates of the Caribbean”, but we are hereby assuming that was a fictitious movie). The reason ships appear as if they “emerge from the waves” is because the world is not flat: it’s round.

www.smarterthanthat.com...

To start with... there's a horizon, meaning that the surface that one is observing from is not an infinite plane. On the clearest of days, the only restriction to one's range of sight is the horizon. There can be two explanations for this - one, that the Earth at some point just stops, as if you were looking off the edge of a table. The other is that the Earth is round. Hundreds of years ago, before the invention of the compass or sextant, precise navigation for ships was difficult, even with the stars. Ships that ventured past sight of land were often lost, and thus it was generally believed that the world simply *stopped* at the end of the horizon. With the invention of the compass, and improved map-making, people began to dare more, and with the return of Columbus from his trans-Atlantic voyage, the concept of the Earth as flat was shattered.

www.physlink.com...

Also it seems Aristotle even knew the Earth was not flat...

www.phy6.org...

So which of those above doesn't debunk the flat Earth idea?

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

What I did look is this site Distance to the Horizon Calculator for starters.

Which clearly shows that at a foot off the ground, that the Distance to the horizon is 1.2 Miles so at a 6.5mile distance which is shown in the video 2 I posted, we still see the bottom off the boat.

So i then went here to confirm what i was seeing, and still as you will see at a distance off 6.5 miles and a height off 1 foot we should not be seing all and especially not the bottom of the boat presented in the 2nd video:

Horizon calculator - radar / visual


And these calculators are based on my link I did from wikipedia.

So, as I said, why are we not seeing a dip or curve?

I don't know the answer to the question that is why i asked.

As I have said i find this all interesting, and nothing more, I am not trying to prove anything, as regarding this information, it is based on what others present.

Either way, just wanted to show you what research I did.

a reply to: TheDon

So, as I said, why are we not seeing a dip or curve?

Your not really serious asking the same question, as my prior post explained why and it showed a diagram from your own source that answers the question...so what is it your not understanding?

Either way, just wanted to show you what research I did.

And yet you still seem to ignore what is being shown to you, but here I will try it one more time...

Because of the curvature of our planet, the distance between you and the horizon when you look out over the ocean depends on your height above the surface of the water. The following diagram shows you how the distance to the horizon can change depending on the height of the observer:
So the distance to the horizon depends on the height of your eyes above the water. If your eyes are 8 inches (20 cm) above the water, the distance of the horizon is about 1 mile (1.6 km) away.

science.howstuffworks.com...