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originally posted by: coomba98
Yeah thats the obvious answer. But Europe is so large. Where is the empire?
I would say ancient Greece but their has to be something more ancient than that.
Plus most greeks at the time were olive skin and black hair.
Same with Rome, most had olive skin and black hair.
With every race of mankind you can point to a civilisation that they came from, but not the white man.
originally posted by: xuenchen
The Caucasus through White Russia.
originally posted by: cooperton
Yeah, apparently it was Japheth, Noah's son, who migrated through the caucus mountains that eventually gave rise to the caucasian race. The REASON these people became white is because their geographic latitude was far from the equator and they required less melanin in their skin to absorb sunlight, which caused their skin to get lighter. less melanin in your skin means whiter skin tone.
The reason, for example, why Native Americans maintained a consistent skin tone among latitudes on their continent is because they migrated with the sun, unless they were in a sedentary civilization near the equator (around central america and the upper half of south america).
Europeans remained sedentary through winters at relatively extreme latitudes, and thus got less sun, and it was adaptable to not waste energy on manufacturing melanin when sun exposure was not as common as say, near the equator in central Africa.
The language of Tut and co, was late Egyptian. We know that it was definitely of the proto Afro-asiatic language family. The language spoken by Tut and co came before Demotic and the later coptic which is still used somewhat. It is far removed from the Egyptian arabic spoken today.
WHC: How does a small group of Semites coming in from Africa transform the language of a region in which they are a minority?
Ehret: One of the archaeological possibilities is a group called the Mushabaeans. This group moves in on another group that's Middle Eastern. Out of this, you get the Natufian people. Now, we can see in the archaeology that people were using wild grains the Middle East very early, back into the late glacial age, about 18,000 years ago. But they were just using these seeds as they were. At the same time, in this northeastern corner of Africa, another people the Mushabaeans? are using grindstones along the Nile, grinding the tubers of sedges. Somewhere along the way, they began to grind grain as well. Now, it's in the Mushabian period that grindstones come into the Middle East.
Conceivably, with a fuller utilization of grains, they're making bread. We can reconstruct a word for "flatbread," like Ethiopian injira. This is before proto-Semitic divided into Ethiopian and ancient Egyptian languages. So, maybe, the grindstone increases how fully you use the land. This is the kind of thing we need to see more evidence for. We need to get people arguing about this.
And by the way: we can reconstruct the word for "grindstone" back to the earliest stage of Afrasan. Even the Omati have it. And there are a lot of common words for using grasses and seeds.
The Berber people call themselves Amazigh: Berber is a name that has been given them by others and which they themselves do not use. Their often dark appearance is caused by the sun: they are ethnologically and genetically White. Ethnologically, the Tuaregs of North Africa (the so-called "Blue People of the Sahara") are Berbers who speak an ancient dialect of Berber called Tamachek. Genetically light-skin and blue-eyes prevail. With their aquiline noses, high cheekbones (often with blonde or reddish hair), they are said to resemble their alleged Atlantean ancestors—many individuals are over six feet tall. When questioned, they do not hesitate to name Atlantis as their lost homeland.
originally posted by: peter vlar
No, less melanin in your skin does not mean whiter skin.Melanin is simply a broad term for the pigments that determine skin and hair color and to an extent, eye color. Skin tone has far more to do with vitamin D absorption, or more precisely the need for such. A native born Congolese doesnt have more or less melanin than a native born Norwegian.
Except that aboriginal Americans do not have a consistent skin tone irrespective of latitude. Most populations were not moving seasonally to the extent it would affect pigmentation the way you try to depict it. Many were, as you say, sedentary. For those that did not stay in one spot all year, the variation in latitude just wasnt enough to cause the effects you imply.
What does thst even mean? "It was adaptable to not waste emergy manufacturing melanin..." Its a non sequitor and not remotely true.
All humans produce melanin, even those with albinism.
Just to give a correlation, here are latitudinal maps of N. America and Europe with cities from the other continent overlayed to give you an idea of how faulty your analogy is regarding latitudinal correspondence being a primary factor in pigmentation expression.
There are two types of melanin--eumelanin and pheomelanin. In general, the more eumelanin in your skin, the darker your skin will be. People who make more pheomelanin than eumelanin tend to have lighter skin with freckles.
Like many other traits, the amount and kind of pigment in your skin is controlled by genes. The version you have of each of these genes work together to create the final product -- your skin color.
There are at least three ways people can end up with different skin color. One way is if people make less pigment. Less pigment = lighter skin.
Another way is when people have fewer melanocytes. Fewer melanocytes mean less pigment overall and so lighter skin.
The third way is a bit more complicated and has to do with the kind of pigment someone makes. There are two types of melanin. Eumelanin is black or brown pigment and pheomelanin is red or yellow pigment.
People who make lots of pheomelanin tend to have lighter skin, often because of freckling. Freckles happen when melanocytes clump together.
Melanocytes are usually spread pretty evenly in the skin. So when freckles form, some spots of the skin have lots of melanocytes (freckles) and other spots have few or none. Where there are no melanocytes, the skin is very fair.
Skin Color Genes
Scientists have figured out that several genes are involved in skin color. One of these genes is the melanocortin 1 receptor (MC1R).
When MC1R is working well, it has melanocytes convert pheomelanin into eumelanin. If it's not working well, then pheomelanin builds up.
Most people with red hair and/or very fair skin have versions of the MC1R gene that don't work well. This means they end up with lots of pheomelanin, which leads to lighter skin. (For more information on MC1R and red hair, check this out.)
Two other skin color genes were first identified in fish. One gene was found in stickleback fish and the other in zebrafish.
Researchers studying the stickleback fish found that the kit ligand gene (kitlg) was different between dark and light stickleback fish. They also found that humans have different versions of this gene too! And that certain versions lead to lighter skin
There are two types of melanin in mammals, the brownish black eumelanin and the reddish yellow pheomelanin. Eumelanin and pheomelanin are present in human hair and this study was carried out to see whether both pigments are also present in human epidermis. Samples of epidermis were obtained from suction blisters raised in the upper arm of 13 Caucasian subjects of skin types I, II, and III and analyzed for both eumelanin and pheomelanin using a procedure involving high-performance liquid chromatography.
Eumelanin and pheomelanin were found in all epidermal samples and their relative proportions correlated well with those found in samples of hair taken from the same subjects. The lowest concentrations of eumelanin were found in subjects of skin type I, with higher levels in skin types II and III. The concentrations of pheomelanin were more variable and showed no relationship to skin type. Increases in the concentrations of both pigments occurred following PUVA therapy, but whereas the largest increases in eumelanin were seen in skin types II and III, the increases in pheomelanin showed little relationship to skin type. Unlike eumelanin, epidermal pheomelanin also showed little relationship to PUVA-induced tanning. The present findings could be particularly significant in view of recent suggestions that pheomelanin, rather than protecting the skin against UV radiation, may actually contribute to UV-induced skin damage.
originally posted by: tadaman
You guys are wrong about melanin MAKING skin color. That is not a climatological adaptation but rather a genetic one.