Where did the White man come from?

a reply to: coomba98

There were many different "White" empires as there were "Black" "yellowish brown" etc..all were not necessarily connected and some are separated through time and space, and a funny thing about empires they usually attract others that were not part of the original core group, give an example the Persians they were discribed by the Greeks as White and hooked nosed,but they also had in their group Elamites a people speaking an Afrasian language perhaps mixed with Dravidian type black folks quite early on.

Elamites within the Persian Empire.

Elamite auxiliaries in the Persian empire.

originally posted by: Semicollegiate

Any body know why Slavs aren't Germans? Where did the Slavs come from?

You want to look at R1a(Y-DNA) for that answer.

Haplogroup R* originated in North Asia just before the Last Glacial Maximum (26,500-19,000 years before present). This haplogroup has been identified in the 24,000 year-old remains of the so-called "Mal'ta boy" from the Altai region, in south-central Siberia (Raghavan et al. 2013). This individual belonged to a tribe of mammoth hunters that may have roamed across Siberia and parts of Europe during the Paleolithic. Autosomally this Paleolithic population appears to have contributed mostly to the ancestry of modern Europeans and South Asians, the two regions where haplogroup R also happens to be the most common nowadays (R1b in Western Europe, R1a in Eastern Europe, Central and South Asia, and R2 in South Asia).

Main article- here


Germans can have this haplogroup, specially the East Germans- The Germanic Branch of R1A.

Slavs linguistics wise is an Indo European branch of language. Appearance wise then there's a mixture from surrounding countries and from the past events of Eastern Europe.


For even further back in origin: Map of Eurasian Adam's origin

a reply to: LABTECH767

in the Sub Arctic, Asiatic people's such as the Inuit are adapted to extreme cold, they have more melatonin in there skin than Europeans and this can be explained by the phenomena of snow glare, they are also less likely to go snow blind or suffer from frost bite due to a far higher skin capillary count than even European's.

True and a heavy fish diet..a great source of vitamin D didn't hurt.

originally posted by: glend
Africans are pure human
Europeans are a mix of african with a touch of Neanderthal
Asians are a mix of african with a touch of Denisovans
Lots of our dna is unaccounted for so perhaps a touch of Anunnaki who knows.

Those were merely other earlier tribes of human's, what you are mixing up is Cro-Magnon as human when in fact they were merely one sub grouping and indeed it is likely that some other strains of humans actually fed back into the African gene pool's.

Africans are probably not Pure Cro-Magnon, indeed the Cro-Magnon were probably only one tribe or family grouping who spread out of Africa while as genetic evidence bears out most family grouping there did not spread out of Africa but remain to this day in Africa with the Cro-Magnon strain being concentrated in eastern and southern Africa but nevertheless they bear the most likely appearance similarity to the tribe that came to eventually conquer the world, Some racial trait's can be explained elegantly by your statement and genetic evidence bears it out but the Neanderthal and Denisovan where also human, they cared about there family's, cared about there sick etc, Neanderthal buried there dead with some bones found with red ochre traces on them indicating spirituality and religious belief of some kind, genetically the Cro-Magnon branch is lucky as it was favoured by climate change that fostered suitable conditions for it to spread but it is not inconceivable that another branch of humanity may one day arise to displace the Cro-Magnon and perhaps even from the other groups in Africa who remember were strong enough not to be swallowed up by there eastern cousin's and force those eastern cousins to emigrate out from Africa not into it except where there population base probably was even then and there genetic legacy is still strongest today.

My only argument with your statement is what denotes a human being as opposed to a family grouping.

a reply to: coomba98

My mommy??

But I like to say I'm half black so who knows?




In all fairness it's something I wondered about a long time ago.. The white people, actual aryans.. in India.. They seemed to have come all the sudden and with advanced weapons.. And thus the cast system was born.. That's the only one thing that bothers me a little with prescribed history, but I know I have enough gaps in my learning to have a misconception about such things.

We are all pretty mixed together now, so we all come from similar places in a way.. I'd love to watch a 20 hour documentary on all things genetics and human lineage..

a reply to: Spider879

The white mummies of western china (Taklimakan desert) are a good example of that, they are genetically distinct from Europeans despite looking very much like us, they were taller on average than Europeans, auburn and red haired with green or blue eye's and white skin, occidental (European) features yet they were not Europeans and there descendants still live there today though they now look mostly Asiatic (Sometimes the hair or eye colour comes back by jumping generations through recessive genes).

Modern white races that can still be traced are the Gaelic people's estimated at a branch about 60.000 years old, Nordic people's 40.000, Basques 10.000 - they were once claimed to be the oldest Europeans but in fact are the youngest sub group, the data I am drawing on from memory may have been superseded as I read this over ten years ago.

Some argue through linguistics and genetics the CAUCASIAN race includes Indians and Semite's so not all Caucasians are actually white.

originally posted by: KnightLight
a reply to: coomba98

My mommy??

But I like to say I'm half black so who knows?

In all fairness it's something I wondered about a long time ago.. The white people, actual aryans.. in India.. They seemed to have come all the sudden and with advanced weapons.. And thus the cast system was born.. That's the only one thing that bothers me a little with prescribed history, but I know I have enough gaps in my learning to have a misconception about such things.

We are all pretty mixed together now, so we all come from similar places in a way.. I'd love to watch a 20 hour documentary on all things genetics and human lineage..

Very good point, the Hittites spoke an Indo European language related to modern Germanic languages like English and German which grew out of the Indian language tree, they arrived as a military force and established the fortress capital city of Hatusha then used Iron weapons to conquer the middle east, eventually they fell from within, there cultural identity faded over time as they integrated with the more advanced cultures they had conquered (more advanced in everything except metallurgy) but no one know' were or when Iron was first forged into weapons and some believe there is a forgotten piece of human history somewhere in Eurasia that has been overlooked were the Hittites themselves may have been driven from by another group who therefore may have had even better weapon's.

Maybe there was a more advanced age despite a lack of evidence and the apparent superiority of different groups at different early time's may have been down to residual knowledge stored among these groups giving one group an advantage over another etc.

I have a great distrust of the term racial traits, for such traits are spread unevenly all over the world and cause folks even scientist to bungle things,

I had to back track some of what I held to be fact, because of this very thing.
Now I look for genetics and artifacts before drawing any definitive conclusions.

a reply to: WP4YT

Chimps are our closest relative and they have pink/white skin.

originally posted by: glend
Africans are pure human
Europeans are a mix of african with a touch of Neanderthal
Asians are a mix of african with a touch of Denisovans
Lots of our dna is unaccounted for so perhaps a touch of Anunnaki who knows.

There is DNA from another unidentified hominid in Africans as well so pure Homo Sapiens is probably extinct.

a reply to: LABTECH767

you are like a talking encyclopedia haha..

And your post was exactly what I was getting at. Something feels a little odd around that time and a bit before..

A bit of a mystery there.


It's something I would love to talk about all the time, but I don't want to sound like a racist white german guy looking for ancient nazis and why white people are awesome lol.. I feel it may come off like this on ATS if I were to explore it. I'm just interested in history these days.. How the heck did we make it here right now..??? It's all so crazy.

originally posted by: coomba98

peter vlar,
Caucasian appearing people have appeared all through our the ancient cultures for millennia. But from where?

and this is where your dilemma begins because what as an anthropologist I would consider a Caucasian, you don't seem to want to call white so what is YOUR delineation?

Quote "an Empire that spanned 3 continents from Egypt and Bulgaria in the East to the entirety of what was then the civilized world, across Babylon, into Bactria and north into Kazakhstan. Yet you think it was one homogenous looking people?"
Im not talking about the people and lands they conquered. Im talking about that specific society/culture. Obviously if say Persia invaded China and won and China became an extension of Persia, there would still be Chinese looking people in the conquered lands. That does not say that Persians now look like Chinese. Persians will still be Persians.

And you're neglecting the people, the artisans, poets, scribes, musicians and aristocrats of those lands who were brought back by Darius. This is the same time frame as when the Hebrew people were released from Babylonian bondage and went back to the Levant with fresh new ideas and mythos that then became incorporated into books we know today as the Pentateuch and the beginnings of Judaism. The same type of cross culturalism wqas going on back in the court of Darius as well.

I do know Persian history and art, the vast majority show olive skin, black hair. Just because Hollywood pays white actors to play Persians or the like does not mean the Persians where white. Thats just Hollywood. Check out the Persian art work, yeah some show Persians with white skin but that few and far between, and said white man has Persian bone structure. Id say they were ones who shunned the sun. Even an olive skinned person can look pretty white if they stay out of the sun.

And just because you think the only light skinned Persians are those bought and paid for by Hollywood doesn't make THAT paradigm the truth. It was a complex Society with people of varying skin tones. Are people North of the Tyrolean Alps less or more white than those South of the Alps or vice versa?

About finding African, Asian or Indian Aussies is not a poor comparison. Its todays comparison just like the photo examples provided. Intebreeding has increased since air travel which is what the last 100 years, but for the last what 2000 plus people have been travelling across the land and water and making other lands their home.

If one was to say Persians are white then why is their art work showing olive skin?

What is white to you? Obviously if the complexion demonstrated by Persians isn't white enough for you then likewise no Mediterranean people are going to be on your list so narrow it down for me...what the hell kind of a white dude are you looking for?

And yes their has to be a place where white man came from, just like Africans, Asians, Indians. All can pin point an origin. Why is this so hard to understand?

Dude... Asia is a continent. Africa is a Continent. India, a Subsontinent surrounded almost entirely on 2 sides by the ocean and the others by mountains, some of the highest mountains in the entire world. There is no whitemans utopia. You are using broad generalized terms to describe everyone else but can't fathom why a narrow restricted vision of what you want white to be just doesn't have its own Shangri la.

I only have basic knowledge in evolution so I can conceed that point as im ignorant. But gotta say if the climate gets warmer a species would evolve to suit that climate.Thats one part of evolution I understand but im not going to argue on that point.

How fast or slow do you think evolution moves? See, one of the beautiful things about H. Sapiens Sapiens is its adaptivity to its surroundings. It means there aren't necessarily going to be any drastic, let alone any morphological variations period depending on a number of variables.

Neanderthal, Erectus and likely Denisovan is 'believed' to all have roughly the same body hair on average as H. Sapiens Sapiens do today. This is an opinion by science and has not been proven due to their being no Neanderthal, Erectus and Denisovan specimens to compare.... Wait I think they found a Neanderthal in ice once.
Yes Otzi The Ice Mummy, but he was Erectus. Again no expert in decay of bio-material but pretty sure hair goes 1st.

Is it really just an opinion? Have you gone through the peer reviewed data on the genetic sequencing? I've got a copy of Svante Paabo's work sitting right here on my desk and I can assure you that Neanderthal quite certainly had, on average, similar proportions of body hair as humans do this very day. Sure, I'm extrapolating when applying that to Denisovans but it's not just a random inference, it's what we refer to as an educated guess based on genomic similarity.

Otzi was not an erectus, he was a Tyrolian herder from the Chalcolithic period. Hair may or may not decompose depending on conditions in which the remains are kept but the genes are still there long after hair and skin rot to dust.

Also im not looking for an empire to call home, I have Australia. Just one of thoughs burning curiosities I have had for a long time now. All other races can pin point their origin, why cant white man?

Maybe because you can't actually describe what specifically you mean by "white". Obviously, an olive Mediterranean complexion isn't white enough for you so you aren't looking for the origin of what would traditionally be referred to as Caucasian, you want, for all intents and purposes the definition of white out of Stormfront.org

ohh and can anyone guess which race within the human race cannot grow facial hair?

They ALL can.

a reply to: LABTECH767

Here is the thing though many are now saying that it was the Indians that gave the indo-Europeans their language phylum than the other way around, and Semitic definitely belong to the African language group as the oldest part of it is spoken in the Horn..see Christopher Eret on this, however physical/ genetic traits and language do not necessarily correlate .

Sumerian wall painting city of Mari
Note the white fellow on the lower left,I suspect he was among a group called the Martu from beyond the Zargos mts.

The Zargos mts
stretching from Turkey to the Persian Gulf a key meeting place for various peoples moving from east west north and south. that fella and folks like him would one day help transformed the region.

a reply to: LABTECH767

My comment was more tongue in cheek than anything but Neanderthal's do seem to have some major anatomical differences to modern humans so I personally wouldn't go on a blind date with one! From my understanding africans and Neanderthal share common dna from a common ancestor 500,000 years back (Neanderthal genome project etc) but anglo saxons mated with Neanderthals just 30,000 years back as they spread through europe.

a reply to: grumpy64

I stand corrected, thanks.

a reply to: Spider879

I think at the end of the day the only way to get to the very bottom all of this is to overlay haplogroups origin points and distributions over a map and see where that puts us because everything else seems so arbitrary and changes from one persons personal inclinations or prejudices to the next.

originally posted by: peter vlar
a reply to: Spider879

I think at the end of the day the only way to get to the very bottom all of this is to overlay haplogroups origin points and distributions over a map and see where that puts us because everything else seems so arbitrary and changes from one persons personal inclinations or prejudices to the next.

That's the exact 20 hour documentary I want to watch.

Someone make this.

There was that discovery channel? thing or something.. Something with genetics and testing people all over.. It didn't give me the depth I was looking for, but it showed me that genetics can be another tool or lens to look at history through.

From Jepheth son of Noah

originally posted by: TheLieWeLive
Some are from Honkey Hill.

A few are from Whitey Way.

I'm from Cracker Creek.

Awesome.

a reply to: LABTECH767

Worth a mention.

Basques speak an ergative–absolutive language. I have read that the closest language family to it that we know of is proto saharan.

Does that mean that the Basque originated in the saharan desert? No, just that the last time someone spoke a language like theirs, it was there and was A LONG TIME AGO.

I have said this before, but the results of king Tuts DNA analysis proved without a shadow of a doubt that the dynasty that he hailed from shared a common ancestor with proto Europeans. In other words, King Tut was related to 90% of Irish, 90% of peoples of the UK, 90% of native Iberians, and 70% of the French. Now here is the kicker, there is a 99% probability of genetic relation of the Basque, Northern Spanish and southern French to King Tut.

So let that sink in. Its peer reviewed and though Egyptologists and the government of Egypt tried to hide this fact....it is absolutely true and verified. An international team published the findings after they were tasked with analysing Tuts genetic makeup. They practically had to leave the country in hiding because they had a gag order placed on them. They published it anyways and it is now impossible to deny.

King Tut, who was a descendant of the FOUNDING dynasties of Egypt, was a descendant of proto Europeans.

We have NO IDEA how this can be....

Well, I think I know, but who the hell am I right? LOL...