It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

The Word became flesh

page: 1
11
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Mar, 27 2015 @ 06:16 PM
link   
The opening verses of John’s Gospel make two sets of statements about the Word.
They describe what the Word was.
They describe what the Word became.
The way to understand the Word is to combine the two together.

The Word was… (vv1-5)

The Word was “In the beginning”.
This phrase is the well-known opening of the Genesis account of the Creation.
So the use of it here identifies the Word (and not just God) with the act of Creation.
And if the Word already “was” at the time of the Creation, that places the origin of the Word before the time of Creation.

The Word was “with God”.
The word “with” translates PROS, which is not just “standing next to”, but in some sense ”moving towards”, or “acting towards” God.
It implies a more direct relationship.

“God, was the Word”.
The word “God”(placed first for emphasis) comes without the Greek “the”.
That is, the Word is not identified with the totality of God.
Rather, “God” describes his nature.

“All things were made through him”.
“Were made” is a translation of EGENETO. That is, “became” or “came into existence”.
In other words, everything that was made came into existence through his agency.
The statement is then repeated in the negative form- ”Nothing that was made was made without his agency.

This double statement is important, because it makes it logically impossible to include the Word itself among the “things which were made”.
For if the Word was one of the “things which were made”, it would have to come into existence before it came into existence, so that it could help to bring itself into existence.
Which is obviously absurd.
So this declaration from John means that the Word must be excluded from the category of “things which were made”.

(None of the clean-shaven men in the village shave themselves.
They all get shaved by the village barber.
Which means, does it not, that the barber himself cannot be one of the clean-shaven men of the village?
Because in that case he would be a “clean-shaven man shaving himself”, which has already been ruled out.)

In short, the Word is uncreated; a feature of the Creator God, and not a feature of the created world.

The Word is also given as the provider of Life, and as such the provider of Light.
These words, too, are an echo of the creation account in Genesis.
The light shines out in the darkness, irresistibly; the darkness could not swallow it up and overcome it.

(My quick test of Bible translations. Do not bother with any translation which claims, in v5, that the darkness “has not understood” the light.)

The Word became…(v14)

The Word “became flesh”.
This is a translation of SARX EGENETO.

The word EGENETO has already been used in v3 to describe the event of being created.
In becoming “flesh”, and only then, the Word joined the ranks of “the things which were made”.
The “flesh” which the Word “became” is the nature of man, as distinct from the nature of God which was claimed for the Word in v2.

When the Word became flesh, did it cease to be the Word?
There are two options about the meaning of “became”.
When the land between England and Germany was flooded, that land became sea- and consequently ceased to be land. The new status replaced the old status.
But when the man Abraham Lincoln became President, he did not cease to be the man Abraham Lincoln. His new status was an addition to his old status.

The structure of the sentence shows that “The Word became flesh” has the second kind of meaning.
If the sentence had read “The Word became flesh, and the flesh dwelt among us”, that would have been like “the land became sea”.
But in fact the two verbs have the same subject; the meaning of the sentence is therefore that the Word became flesh and the Word dwelt among us.
In other words, “the flesh” must have been an addition to the previous nature of the Word, which continued to exist as the Word.
As the later Creeds would put it, his humanity was “taken up” into his divinity.

Finally, the following verses clearly identify this “Word became flesh” with Jesus Christ.
In v15, John the Baptist bears witness “to him”, that is the Word mentioned in the previous verse.
V16 declares that we have received grace from the same, and v17 gives the name of Jesus Christ as the source of this grace.
He is then implicitly identified in the next verse as “the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father”.
Which brings us round in a full circle back to the teaching of the first verse.


Thus the message of this passage is describing two stages in the history of the Word.
First, the Word was with God and the Word was God.
Then the Word became flesh (that is, became human).
And the result is a conjunction of the two natures, the nature of God and the nature of humanity.




posted on Mar, 27 2015 @ 06:58 PM
link   
This is the best thread I have ever read. I have been looking all over for something like this and I will print this out and keep it forever. Thank you so much.

If it is not too much to ask, may I be given to know your name? I would like to give credit to the correct author, please PM me.



posted on Mar, 27 2015 @ 07:13 PM
link   
Very well explain, congratulations in the effort you put to it.



posted on Mar, 27 2015 @ 07:41 PM
link   
Very deep. I enjoyed it. Have you ever heard of Vic Alexander? He has made it his life's work to translate the ancient aramaic scriptures directly into english. His work is astounding! His translation of the
Bible is much more...robust...deeper. Similar to how you just explained this. Except, instead of the word "word", his translation says "manifestation", which, to me is a deeper meaning than just "word". Anyway...keep up the good work!
-Quin



posted on Mar, 27 2015 @ 07:54 PM
link   
a reply to: mytquin
Thank you for the encouragement.
No, I don't know that name.
The translation "word" is very relevant to this gospel, because Jesus then spends much of his time expounding the importance of hearing, listening to, receiving, "the word" that he brings. One leads on to the other.



posted on Mar, 27 2015 @ 08:05 PM
link   
Excellent exegesis.
You've absolutely hit the nail on the head.
I did a study a few years ago on the word "Word", and the way that it is used throughout Scripture. I was amazed to see just how often it applies to either Christ, or the written word - and how many times BOTH were simultaneously applicable.
The Bible is an incredible book (or series of books)... the deeper you dig, the further you realize you can go.



posted on Mar, 27 2015 @ 08:08 PM
link   
a reply to: Awen24
Yes, the Bible is all about the communication between God and man, so it does make sense that "word" should be a central theme. This is a God who has something to say to us.



posted on Mar, 27 2015 @ 10:05 PM
link   

originally posted by: Awen24
The Bible is an incredible book (or series of books)... the deeper you dig, the further you realize you can go.


I am always amazed that the "living word" remains the same, but the meanings of certain passages and verses have changed for me depending on where I am in life's journey. The bible constantly reveals something new, not seen or comprehended before.



posted on Mar, 28 2015 @ 03:31 AM
link   
Pretty in the bible, Literally speaking.

The word is a commandment.

However the book was written by Jewish Scribes, So they would of Ommited any further declarations that didn't make the Original cut to the book.

I'm having a hard time believing the creator of the Universe and all this stars and galaxies is lurking on Earth but what ever to praise OUR creator amiright?

I don't even think the creator of Humanity would take such a thing to context but is only being taken to literally by those who scribbed, Translated and finally when it reaches your and mine eyes it hath been carved and polished like a fine gem, Leaving the original form uknowable. It only becomes pleasing to eye as a glinting stone. Because to Humans, it takes the Multilation of what was already perfect to redefine something we should already love with only its appealing qualities well casting the ugly ones away.

Show a gem to a man, woman or child who hath not seen its Ore and they will be blind to the natural form it once was... Words to live by.



posted on Mar, 28 2015 @ 04:46 AM
link   
a reply to: DISRAELI

Very well stated.

For those who have a problem understanding the Christian belief in the trinity should reread the thread.

Jesus is God.



posted on Mar, 28 2015 @ 04:49 AM
link   
a reply to: DeathSlayer
Thank you for that comment.
There is a forthcoming thread which will put forward the other half of the Incarnation teaching, by stressing that Jesus is (also) a man.



posted on Mar, 28 2015 @ 04:51 AM
link   
Yes, share the Good Truth with us, brother! You have the gift of having the necessary enthusiasm to dig up these incredible revelations and sharing them with the world. I'm not much of a church guy, but all of your threads should be sent to every church out there. And I know I can tell you things like that without having any fear that it might inflate your ego because I know, based on your understanding of Scripture, that you fully understand who truly deserves the credit. May God continue to bless you, and by extension, us, with the gift of understanding.



posted on Mar, 28 2015 @ 06:43 AM
link   
a reply to: DISRAELI
Prior to any word what is there?
Can the human mind stop long enough to see and hear what there actually is?
The words that continually appear, as the thought steam of language, can cloud the vision.

The tiny little word 'I' is just a word arising but it seems to take on a life of it's own. The concept of time opens up a stage for the 'I, the me' to play on and this is where the concept of 'me' appears in flesh - this is where a whole world of things can be put.
'I' is the word which creates all other words and the words are bought into and then there seems to be a world in which 'I' lives and has to deal with.

There is just life happening - concepts appearing - the word 'I' arises but it is never speaking about anyone. Concepts arise and subside.
But the concept/word 'I' does seem to take on a separate life to God- but it is just God dreaming that he is separate.



posted on Mar, 28 2015 @ 07:09 AM
link   
The word beginning in Hebrew is re'shiyth and means first fruit.The root is from rosh (Rosh Hosannah).

In essence it means the seed.What things are made from.In the “seed” was the “word”….life…John is reiterating in poetic metaphor that Yahoshua is the son/seed of the creator God that all things are “made” from and through.He is not saying Yahoshua is the creator God any more than saying a mans spermatozoon /seed is the man.It comes from the man but a spermatozoon cell is not a man nor is it "the man" it came from.

The spermatozoon has to swim up the cervix to the uterus into the fallopian tube and “mate” with an egg.Then it is a zygote(the root meaning is marriage).It then separates( the meaning of holy)into many cells and begins to form a “body” called a embryo.When all the parts of the body are formed it is a fetus.When the fetus has matured in the womb it is “born/delivered ….the meaning of salvation.

That is the essence of the good news Yahoshua preached(stated by proclaiming).That he is the seed of life sown into the physical universe(womb/matrix) to cause “life”(spirit). The Good new is not about religion or mysticism or spirituality rhetoric with creeds and doctrines and false beliefs about reality.It is a statement of fact that everything that exists inside the physical universe realm is being conceived and will be “born anew”.

There are no acts performed by any person that caused this “conception” just as none caused their own physical conception.There is nothing anyone can do to cause or hinder their birth/delivery either.Yahoshua means the Yahweh( the creator God) is deliverance/salvation.

Yahoshua clearly stated he came to “deliver” all of creation including mankind because he is the son/seed of God ....Yahoshua.This is precisely what the religious carnal mind cannot perceive. It can only believe religions doctrine.

In the seed is life and the life was with the creator God and the life is the creator God.





edit on 28-3-2015 by Rex282 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 28 2015 @ 07:17 AM
link   

originally posted by: Rex282

In essence it means the seed.What things are made from.In the “seed” was the “word”….life…John is reiterating in poetic metaphor that Yahoshua is the son/seed of the creator God that all things are “made” from and through.

The immaculate concept (the pure word of God) is this that is appearing - always presently. In this and as this all things are created - THIS IS the creating space - it is also the KNOWING space.



posted on Mar, 28 2015 @ 07:18 AM
link   

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
Prior to any word what is there?
Can the human mind stop long enough to see and hear what there actually is?
The words that continually appear, as the thought steam of language, can cloud the vision.

The Greek LOGOS means "thought" as well as "word", but "word" is more relevant here because it leads onto the theme of communication.


But the concept/word 'I' does seem to take on a separate life to God- but it is just God dreaming that he is separate.

The communication between God and the created world demonstrates that there is a real distinction between God and the created world. Otherwise it would not be possible.



posted on Mar, 28 2015 @ 07:24 AM
link   

originally posted by: Rex282
He is not saying Yahoshua is the creator God any more...

I demonstrated in the OP how John's logic forces the conclusion that the Word is NOT on the "created world" side of the boundary between Creator and created world.
That leaves him on the "Creator" side of the boundary.
The rest of the gospel is about the need to recognise this, to know "where he came from", in order to receive his message.



posted on Mar, 28 2015 @ 07:27 AM
link   

originally posted by: DISRAELI



But the concept/word 'I' does seem to take on a separate life to God- but it is just God dreaming that he is separate.

The communication between God and the created world demonstrates that there is a real distinction between God and the created world. Otherwise it would not be possible.

God is dreaming. God is seeing his creation.
God is the dreamer and the dream.

But the 'I' is just a thought happening - just a concept. There is only presence - but there may be thoughts (words telling stories) arising about other than what is present.



posted on Mar, 28 2015 @ 07:29 AM
link   

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
God is dreaming. God is seeing his creation.
God is the dreamer and the dream.

If there is genuine communication, then that is not the case.
The Biblical premise (which I am following) is that there is genuine communication.
edit on 28-3-2015 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 28 2015 @ 07:32 AM
link   
The immaculate conception is the true manifestation of God - it is what is always present prior to any word.
The words 'you and me' or 'this and that' seem to separate THIS that is.

There is 'seeing' but 'seeing' gets split into 'seer and seen' and off you go in search of wholeness, lol.



new topics

top topics



 
11
<<   2 >>

log in

join