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It Is Time To Demand A Satellite Dedicated To Alpha Centauri Observation!

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posted on Mar, 28 2015 @ 02:03 AM
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originally posted by: johnwick

originally posted by: stormbringer1701

originally posted by: Abednego

originally posted by: stormbringer1701
Alpha Centauri and its cohort (alpha proxima, Rigel Kentaurus, Alpha Centauri B) are the most urgent of subjects because if we do find something there we CAN actually do something about that with realistic technology. Yet They have been ignored neglected dismissed as uninteresting...

The time has come to stop screwing around and do something vital to science. The very minute we find and verify an interesting planet in alpha centauri is the moment every space capable government, corporation, university and rich persons (branson, Bigalowe, etc) begins researching and designing advanced propulsion systems to get there.

Who says they are not doing it? But keeping it in silence.


Advanced propulsion or find a place to go with that propulsion?

I know of one credible private effort for advanced propulsion; but the gentleman involved is a septagenarian fighting two forms of stage 4 cancer. other than that there are a couple of semi private efforts for fusion powered space craft. the rest are marginalized garden workshop laboratory types with questionable theories and wild eyed tales.


You rebuild the Saturn V.

Then boost to 25,000 mph, release the craft, activate the ion drive, wait 100 years for any return.

That is the problem.

Time, it is just too long and too far for our current tech.

The investment would take hundreds of millions of dollars and give nothing back in a human lifetime.

Maybe we will get lucky and the "warp" drive will work out.
this seems to assume you don't get anything until said ion propelled ship gets to it's destination. that would not be the case. it would be scanning and beaming back data all the way there. also it is somewhat reasonable to assume an advanced ion drive or a fusion drive could reach ten percent C in which case it would take a little over 40 years to actually get there. this is; oh, about three years longer than voyager has been sending us post cards.

warp drive or wormhole drives are nice (*and there are good reasons for thinking it is possible) but even without them travel to nearby stars are quite manageable with propulsion systems we know will work right now.

*Right now the primary problem with warp drive and wormholes is the requirement for exotic mass/energy. there are several proposed approaches to address this issue. Of the five i know right now i am favoring the fact that QED requires the bare mass of leptons such as the electron to contain negative energy and in amounts that are shockingly vast. as in amounts involving the 4rth power of C instead of the second power. if i understand this right it means a single lepton with the negative component of its mass sources exposed would be more than enough to provide for a warp drive or a rather largish wormhole.
edit on 28-3-2015 by stormbringer1701 because: typo patrol.




posted on Mar, 28 2015 @ 02:30 AM
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originally posted by: JadeStar
Too bad it is unlikely that the Alpha Centauri B planets transit would be detectable. If we had an edge on view of the system something like Sara Seager's low cost ExoPlanetSat cubesats would do the trick....




NASA's TESS (Transiting Exoplanet Survey Satellite) will look at the stars of Alpha Centauri but the same problem remains, if the planets transit can not be spotted because we're look down (or up) at the plane the planets orbit then transit spotting space telescopes will miss them.

We will have to wait for a comprehensive radial velocity search with one of the new 30m class telescopes or a direct imaging space telescope like Exo-C, Exo-S or something similar.


That cube sat-esque satellite looks pretty neat. what is your opinion of an ~~2 million dollar class medium sized satellite to just straight up creep stalk that star system for 5 to ten years?



posted on Mar, 28 2015 @ 02:40 AM
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Voyager 2 launched on August 20, 1977, from Cape Canaveral, Florida aboard a Titan-Centaur rocket. On September 5, Voyager 1 launched, also from Cape Canaveral aboard a Titan-Centaur rocket.


That's approaching 38 years ago. a journey to the nearest stars at ten percent C would take just 42.6 years for the nearest one and an additional less than a year to get to the next one in the system and an additional nearly a year for the third one. so in less than 45 years all three proximal Centauri stars could be visited by probes. (this does not include acceleration time and deacceleration time. a fusion system could perform those maneuvers in a few months each. doing so would then make the total trip time to all three stars about 46 years.)

even if the program management were idiots that left the probes idle the entire trip you could still get data at the end of a period not much longer than voyager has been cruising.
edit on 28-3-2015 by stormbringer1701 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 28 2015 @ 06:42 AM
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i just read that voyager's RTG "batteries" will last until 2020 or longer. that means the voyager program will last that long. which means we will have a space mission that lasts 43 years. which is longer than a hypothetical traverse to alpha centauri at ten percent c.



posted on Mar, 28 2015 @ 10:08 AM
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originally posted by: stormbringer1701
There are others that could explain it better than me but there are two issues:

Hubble is a shared instrument and there is a governing body that allocates the observation time for all the astronomers that have access. observing time is divided into small intervals of time for any one entity wanting to use it. 20 days is a looooooong time in which the other authorized users are locked out of observation time. So it is not gonna happen. you need twenty days to ensure watching at a time when the planet is moving in front of the star if it is a transiting planet.

i am not entirely sure they can directly image the planet at the resolution available to Hubble so it is likely they would have to rely on a transit to verify the planet is there.

it is even worse if the planet has a larger orbital period.


Yes, that is indeed a log time, but, continuous observation probably isn't required, just precision observation over a period f time...kind of like time lapse photography.

I'm just beginning to think about telescope use/time allocation and scheduling for my observatory, but this sort of thing is easy to set up and operate. So...it should be rather easy to get a slice of "observation time" and image Alpha Centauri...and collect the requisite dataset.



posted on Mar, 28 2015 @ 10:45 AM
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originally posted by: stormbringer1701

That cube sat-esque satellite looks pretty neat. what is your opinion of an ~~2 million dollar class medium sized satellite to just straight up creep stalk that star system for 5 to ten years?


You may be able to build such a satellite for $2 million, but you aren't going to be able to launch it for that little.

Say your satellite was small enough to share a ride up with two other satellites, so the cost can be split 3 ways. You're still looking at around $20 million for your share of the launch.



posted on Mar, 28 2015 @ 11:19 AM
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a reply to: stormbringer1701

Say there truly is nothing special about the Centauri system, then what?

Spend decades sending it out to the next star system & hope it doesn't run out of fuel.

If it were up to me & I had the budget of NASA, I'd can everything & put it all towards advanced propulsion for however long it takes to get something from it.

You could build a 1000+ metre optical telescope & directly image a star system, even capturing evidence of an old orbiting space station for added measure. However none of that matters if you cannot get there in person. You can build a bigger telescope to get an even closer look, you can send messages & wait decades/hundreds/thousands of years but if it's determined nobody is there any more, what then...move onto another star system & try again!

We could map out the whole galaxy but if we cannot get there, then what's the point.

There could be as much as 400 billion stars in our galaxy alone, each star will host multiple planets. It stands to reason that there will be huge amounts of worlds that we could colonise. It's also a safe bet imo that life will be plenty amongst the stars.

Getting out there should be our number one priority & that's where all our funding & research should be dedicated towards.



posted on Mar, 28 2015 @ 12:33 PM
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originally posted by: stormbringer1701

originally posted by: JadeStar
Too bad it is unlikely that the Alpha Centauri B planets transit would be detectable. If we had an edge on view of the system something like Sara Seager's low cost ExoPlanetSat cubesats would do the trick....




NASA's TESS (Transiting Exoplanet Survey Satellite) will look at the stars of Alpha Centauri but the same problem remains, if the planets transit can not be spotted because we're look down (or up) at the plane the planets orbit then transit spotting space telescopes will miss them.

We will have to wait for a comprehensive radial velocity search with one of the new 30m class telescopes or a direct imaging space telescope like Exo-C, Exo-S or something similar.


That cube sat-esque satellite looks pretty neat. what is your opinion of an ~~2 million dollar class medium sized satellite to just straight up creep stalk that star system for 5 to ten years?



At $2 million dollars you're talking about something like WISE (Wide-field Infrared Survey Explorer) which was part of NASA's low cost Explorer program rather than something like Kepler which was around $600 million as part of the Discovery program.

I think for $2 million you could build something like a 0.5 meter Optical/Near-IR space telescope which would do precise RV not only for Alpha Centauri but for Tau Ceti, 40 Eridani, Epsilon Indi, Epsilon Eridani, Groombridge 34, Procyon A and B, 61 Cygni A and B, Groombridge 1618, Lacaille 9352, Lalande 21185, Gliese 1 and Gliese 832.

A few of these already are known to have planets (Tau Ceti, Epsilon Eridani and Gliese 832 off of the top of my head) but in some cases like Tau Ceti they are unconfirmed.

And it wouldn't go to waste when it finished surveying these stars because it could have another use for general astronomy or even hazardous near-Earth asteroid detection and characterization (the B612 Foundation's "Sentinel" spacecraft is a 0.5 meter telescope).



posted on Mar, 28 2015 @ 01:01 PM
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originally posted by: big_BHOY

Getting out there should be our number one priority & that's where all our funding & research should be dedicated towards.


I agree with that for several reasons, the main one being that one day we'll be needing to get off this planet!



posted on Mar, 28 2015 @ 07:46 PM
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originally posted by: big_BHOY
a reply to: stormbringer1701

Say there truly is nothing special about the Centauri system, then what?

Spend decades sending it out to the next star system & hope it doesn't run out of fuel.

If it were up to me & I had the budget of NASA, I'd can everything & put it all towards advanced propulsion for however long it takes to get something from it.

You could build a 1000+ metre optical telescope & directly image a star system, even capturing evidence of an old orbiting space station for added measure. However none of that matters if you cannot get there in person. You can build a bigger telescope to get an even closer look, you can send messages & wait decades/hundreds/thousands of years but if it's determined nobody is there any more, what then...move onto another star system & try again!

We could map out the whole galaxy but if we cannot get there, then what's the point.

There could be as much as 400 billion stars in our galaxy alone, each star will host multiple planets. It stands to reason that there will be huge amounts of worlds that we could colonise. It's also a safe bet imo that life will be plenty amongst the stars.

Getting out there should be our number one priority & that's where all our funding & research should be dedicated towards.
While i agree we need serious advanced propulsion research now but we also need places to go. near term advanced propulsion breakthroughs are likely to yield 10 percent c as a temporary maximum and very very very (etc) optimistic upper bound. that means that probes or especially manned craft have to have carefully chosen targets. Planets of interest to us will be those that are near earth in gravity and temperature ranges that are closest to us especially for manned missions.

because of this it is critical that we learn all about "nearby" targets so we can judiciously choose where to send our hopefully really fast probes.


edit on 28-3-2015 by stormbringer1701 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 30 2015 @ 03:34 AM
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if it should prove possible to individually address the terms in the equations describing an electrons mass/energy we could have a means to turn normal mass negative and thus have the very thing we need to make warp drives, wormholes and bootsrapping self accelerating drives.

the forces that give the electron its over all positive mass hides a very large negative mass. when the components are summed you end up with a very small positive mass. but prior to renormalization there is hidden negative mass that has in it a factor of C^4 not C^2 like the positive mass. that means a tiny electron has a jupiter sized mass/energy equivalent with a negative sign. does a jupiter sized mass/energy remind you of anything? does the fact it is confined in an electron's compton limit further remind you of yet another related thing?

Answer: both of those are requirements of creating a warp drive in space with unaltered permitivity.



posted on Mar, 31 2015 @ 04:33 AM
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1. Proxima Centauri is closer.
2. Three different stars might have had the effect of destroying the smaller planets we're looking for, much like CalTech recently said Jupiter did.
3. Gotta start somewhere.



posted on Mar, 31 2015 @ 05:07 AM
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originally posted by: CryHavoc
1. Proxima Centauri is closer.
2. Three different stars might have had the effect of destroying the smaller planets we're looking for, much like CalTech recently said Jupiter did.
3. Gotta start somewhere.
i counter that with this:

phys.org...

terrestrial class planets can grow on double star systems and though proxima may be a part of the AC system it is too small and far enough away it would to figure too much into the planet forming process. on top of that jupiter class planets may have moons as big as earth. and proxima may yet turn out to have terrestrial class planets since only super earths- neptunes have been ruled out there.
edit on 31-3-2015 by stormbringer1701 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 31 2015 @ 05:47 AM
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originally posted by: stormbringer1701
i just read that voyager's RTG "batteries" will last until 2020 or longer. that means the voyager program will last that long. which means we will have a space mission that lasts 43 years. which is longer than a hypothetical traverse to alpha centauri at ten percent c.



Some estimates for the lifetime of Voyager's RTGs say they will last to 2025. If so the voyager program will last 48 years.



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 01:04 PM
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originally posted by: JadeStar
Too bad it is unlikely that the Alpha Centauri B planets transit would be detectable. If we had an edge on view of the system something like Sara Seager's low cost ExoPlanetSat cubesats would do the trick....




NASA's TESS (Transiting Exoplanet Survey Satellite) will look at the stars of Alpha Centauri but the same problem remains, if the planets transit can not be spotted because we're look down (or up) at the plane the planets orbit then transit spotting space telescopes will miss them.

We will have to wait for a comprehensive radial velocity search with one of the new 30m class telescopes or a direct imaging space telescope like Exo-C, Exo-S or something similar.


welp look at this: www.parabolicarc.com...




The CubeSat projects selected through this award will potentially fly as secondary payload missions on the first flight of the Space Launch System, Exploration Mission-1 (EM-1). CubeSat selections will address NASA’s strategic knowledge gaps in order to reduce risk, increase effectiveness, and improve the design of robotic and human space exploration.

EM-1 will provide a rare opportunity to boost these CubeSats to deep space and enable science, technology demonstration, exploration or commercial applications in that environment. The two NextSTEP CubeSat projects will have fixed-price contracts with technical and payment milestones and total values for the entire development and operations of $1.4 to $7.9 million per award. The selected companies are:

Lockheed Martin Space Systems Company of Denver, Colorado
Morehead State University of Morehead, Kentucky

- See more at: www.parabolicarc.com...


(dang it i swear i saw an article with a picture. it looked like that professor's cube sat thing with 4 solar panels and a small but powerful ion thruster attached at the rear)

i wonder if it's related to the one you showed?

EDIT: oh i found it! It's at the very bottom of this article here: www.dailymail.co.uk...
edit on 1-4-2015 by stormbringer1701 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 01:11 PM
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a reply to: DuckforcoveR

If I was a billionaire I'd be funding all sorts of space exploration projects, not space planes like the virgin guy, actual space lol

To infinity and beyond!



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 01:15 PM
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a reply to: big_BHOY

Putting all of your eggs in one basket is rarely a good idea. There's no way we'll reach any earth-like planet "in person" with our current tech, no matter how much money you throw at it.

Personally, I'd throw a huge chunk of my resources into A.I. ... once that's done we'll have some help in inventing all sorts of cool stuff.



posted on Apr, 2 2015 @ 07:09 AM
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Ahead; full impulse power!

www.technologyreview.com...



posted on Apr, 21 2015 @ 12:43 AM
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look at the picture in this article: phys.org...

thats 4 gas giants orbiting a star over 100 ly away! there is a 5th but it is occulted by the processing to get rid of the star glare. It's an infrared picture. but as you can see the planets are directly resolved. jupiter is about 200 times the size of the earth. and gas giants can be several times bigger than jupiter. but come on; its 100 light years away! alpha centauri is 4.36 + and minus away. that telescope should be able to easily resolve terrestrial class planets at 4 light years. we might even get enough pixels for significant contrast data. clouds. ice. ocean. continents. big forested areas. day length. wobble. therefore seasons lengths. temperature ranges.



posted on Apr, 21 2015 @ 04:49 PM
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originally posted by: big_BHOY
a reply to: stormbringer1701

Say there truly is nothing special about the Centauri system, then what?


Learning about another star system up close and personal would be truly special regardless of whether every planet in it is boring (which I highly doubt they would be).

For one thing, having a probe there would help us fine tune our telescopes back here in the search for other planets like Earth.

But beyond science just think about how cool it would be!!!

Our first piece of humanity in another star system would be a groundbreaking achievement for all of humanity.

I can't believe you don't see the big picture.
edit on 21-4-2015 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)



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