AZ Senator wants to make church attendance mandatory

a reply to: DelMarvel

in my experience sincerely devout religious people (be they Christian, Muslim, whatever) are certainly not less moral in their behavior than non-believers.

okay

I'd offer the caveat: Some. Some devoutly religious people are certainly not less moral.....

Especially from certain denominations and/or congregations.

Given that some devoutly religious people are certainly not less moral, which denominations are you talking about?

Of course, there are a lot of phonies as well, just like with the politicians.

A lot like politicians, yes.

But there are also a lot of people who don't go to church that you can't trust, either.

Absolutely.
I guess my point is: the fact that someone does, or does not, go to church really means nothing with regards to their social/personal trustworthiness.

a reply to: JDmOKI

I don't think calling people stupid is healthy

I don't, either!

Can you show me where I said 'people are stupid'? Please?

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Also, I think a lot of people who disparage religions are missing a major point.

What point is it that you think those people are missing?

Personally, I have no problem with religions that teach the Golden Rule. As long as they have leaders who teach the same thing, instead of 'Let's bomb Iran' or 'you're going straight to hell because you suck and always did and didn't listen' - fine.
I have no problem with those.

There are a lot of people who do good deeds strictly because of their beliefs.

Yes, there are. And this is what worries me......not because they are refraining from being "bad", but because it doesn't require "the fear of God" to understand and engage in human goodness.

Still - no argument. Some people hold back from killing someone else because they are afraid of 'God's wrath'. Other people hold back because they are naturally averse to the idea of harming someone else, whether they've 'heard the good news' or not.

Which type of person, in your opinion, is more spiritually mature? More sincere, and more genuine in their actions?

originally posted by: JDmOKI
a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

Your connection is that people in the south go to church at a higher rate then the rest of the country and that the social problems are linked to church attendance.

It is not my connectoin - I didn't do the studies that show the links.

So in order to feed your own personal rhetoric you make a connection that people who go to church are more prone to violence? In order to prove this claim you have to have records of people who go to church and a true connection to the crimes that you claim. Since church attendance is not public records everything you claim is pure speculation since, any person can claim 100% Sunday morning church attendance. In order to prove this connection we have to look at all of the possible trends happening in this area gangs, poverty, schools, economics, jobs, or in your case church attendance.

In order to make these points you have to prove that you're not holding any personal bias towards people of faith.

No I don't.

Are these criminals waking up at 8am from all that drug induced coma paying attention during church? I mean all this violence contradicts many of the main themes of that particular faith. Maybe the preachers are gang members during the weekdays?

If you really want to know the answers to these, why don't you look up the foundation information that was gathered in the studies?

Shooting the messenger because you don't want the information to be true is shallow thinking.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs

Given that some devoutly religious people are certainly not less moral, which denominations are you talking about?

First of all, let's not forget that you and I are in agreement overall on most of what is being discussed in this thread.

But that said, if there was some extreme emergency that required you to ask a total stranger to watch your infant child, who are you going to pick: an old order Mennonite or someone wearing a Jack Daniels T-shirt?

a reply to: DelMarvel

But that said, if there was some extreme emergency that required you to ask a total stranger to watch your infant child, who are you going to pick: an old order Mennonite or someone wearing a Jack Daniels T-shirt?

LOL!!!

I love this. What an excellent question. (And I'm not being sarcastic - it really is an excellent question!)

Okay - based on the wardrobe, I would actually be more inclined toward the tee-shirt person. But their wardrobe really has little to do with my decision. To be honest, I would first approach the Jack Daniels tee-shirt and ask some questions about where they were from, etc.

In my personal experience, 'Jack Daniels' tee-wearers can be of a wide range of personas....personalities, and life-styles.
I would want to know more about them.

Mennonite senior - well - *heavy sigh*.......
Snap judgment?
No. Sorry. But then we get back to initial impressions beyond "outer garments". What are they driving? Do they have all their teeth? Do they smell bad? What are they eating? Are they competent to rise above themselves to care for a baby?

In the end, if I had to choose between those two "adults" and a preteen child with a basic public education who lived in a non-ghetto neighborhood......, I'd choose the preteen.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
Mennonite senior - well - *heavy sigh*.......
Snap judgment?
No. Sorry. But then we get back to initial impressions beyond "outer garments". What are they driving? Do they have all their teeth? Do they smell bad? What are they eating? Are they competent to rise above themselves to care for a baby?

Hmm....I'm not entirely sure where you're coming from with that. My "snap judgment" here is that you might be making incorrect generalizations about the Mennonite subculture?" Perhaps I'm misunderstanding.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
In the end, if I had to choose between those two "adults" and a preteen child with a basic public education who lived in a non-ghetto neighborhood......, I'd choose the preteen.

If you're saying that an average "preteen child" or anyone else with no other qualification beyond a " basic public education" can be trusted to have a more reliable sense of personal morality than an adult member of a plain Anabaptist church I have to disagree.

I'm not talking about necessarily agreeing with their theology or politics here. I'm talking about personal interactions on a level where you are concerned about such things as people stealing things from your store, not paying their rent, not fulfilling contracts, etc.

Just my personal experience; perhaps not applicable across the board.

Wow how did she make it in to office? Did she just hide her level crazy really well?

Republicans and thier Small Government beliefs, eh?

originally posted by: TownCryer
Republicans and thier Small Government beliefs, eh?

Nothing says small government than a $800 billion a year military, militarized police, Military torture camps and war on drugs!