Could It Happen Here? - Pilot Suicide

a reply to: Greathouse

The rules for US carriers, which is what they're talking about, prevent a situation similar to what they're claiming happened with the Germanwings flight.

a reply to: butcherguy

There's about as much chance as there is of a wing falling off.

The chances of a pilot suicide is and always will be a possibility. Pilots are people too, I dont know, maybe the airlines could include some sort of fail safe system, that would make planes fly on a certain predetermined route at a certain altitude, and any adjustment has to be done by both pilots, But really if a pilot wants to crash a plane, then a pilot is going too, and theres not much anyone can do about it.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I compleatly understand you are talking exclusively about u.s carriers. I am not, I am talking about all carriers that fly over u.s airspace also.



You implied the rules should apply to them . So we are discussing fas rules.

a reply to: Greathouse It's kind of a grey area for rules like this. For major rules, it's easy to enforce. For rules like this they SHOULD follow it, but barring am FAA inspector on board there's no proving if they are or not.

a reply to: Greathouse

And even then the chances of a wing falling off are probably greater than a pilot committing suicide.

The chances are far better that if a pilot was going to, on a foreign carrier, they would long before crossing into the US. Once they cross into the US the other crew member is much more likely to stay in the cockpit, because they're getting ready to start checklists for landing, depending on where they are landing.

Over the Atlantic they're out of contact except through the transponder, which can be shut off. Crews are rotating in and out of the cockpit for rest and bathroom breaks, so there is much more opportunity.

Foreign carriers, whether over the US or Europe generally follow the rules of the regulating agency, but there's no way to ensure it.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Yeah, that's the same thing they said after Egyptian air flight 990. Yet here we are talking about the same scenario again. My opinion less talking and more action.

a reply to: Greathouse

And look when it occurred. At a point in the flight where the other pilot was most likely to leave the cockpit.

Going from memory, there was a flight in the late 70s, early 80s where an airline employee was fired, and used his badge to get a gun onto the flight his boss was on, and executed the pilots.

EgyptAir 990.

Silk Air lost a brand new 737 that was mechanically perfect when it pitched down into a river.

If they're being honest, this flight.

That's four spread out over 30 years. Four out of millions of flights a year. Pilot suicide is not a rampant problem that needs to have a fix rushed into place.

Make it five. TM470 in Africa in 2013.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: butcherguy

There's about as much chance as there is of a wing falling off.

Yep, very remote.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Completely agree that for over 30 years as you recall planes have gone down in similar fashion. But in the events aircraft were lost and people died.

You cited cases over 30 years why has anything been done yet? There should always be at least two Crewmembers in the cockpit. If they have to go to the bathroom I don't care if they have to take a crap in a bucket and throw it out the Window.

Neither the pilot nor copilot should leave the cockpit.

It would be easy to verify that two members are present in the aircraft with a radio check Within range, or an anouncement to passengers that they should report if they see a pilot or copilot in the cabin.

What disturbs me the most about your post is your constant minimization of peoples deaths. Yes it happens rarely but people are dying from it since the 60s and 70s by your account. Why are you minimizing peoples deaths ?

Don't you think it should be fixed even if it takes installing a small toilet in the cockpit?

a reply to: alldaylong
Yeah i thought of that also maybe it was actually the pilot but they could hear the copilot pressing buttons, unless that was a tape recording or something.

a reply to: Greathouse

I'm not minimizing deaths. But saying something major needs to be done because a small handful of planes have crashed because of it is the same as someone saying that they have to redesign the Airbus control system, because one pilot put his camera next to his seat and it bumped the controller and put them into a dive.

Say they put a lavatory in the cockpit, what is to stop the other pilot from jamming something into the door, keeping him from opening it? What, put an open toilet next?

What's to stop him, as someone else said, from hitting the other pilot over the head? Or slipping something into his drink?

a reply to: Zaphod58

Say they put a lavatory in the cockpit, what is to stop the other pilot from jamming something into the door, keeping him from opening it?

No door on on the toilet,use a curtain.

What's to stop him, as someone else said, from hitting the other pilot over the head? Or slipping something in his drink

Bring your own drinks, as for hitting over the head, this isn't Hollywood you and I both know it's rather difficult to knock someone out. ( if you were really thinking you would've said chokehold)

But by all means we should take the word of the pilot defending pilots. Nothing should be done whatsoever we will just leave that type of suicide open to the path of least resistance and not do anything.

After all who cares if a couple hundred people died every 10 years or so in a planed suicide/murder.

By the way I'm done carry-on.

a reply to: Greathouse

If a pilot decides to kill himself by crashing the plane, he's going to find a way to do it.

Yes hitting someone over the head isn't like Hollywood, but one pilot taking on three came within seconds of overpowering the crew and succeeding.

But by all means, let's solve every problem that has ever happened on a plane. Every day people don't need to fly anymore. They can drive.

You can't solve every problem that has ever happened to any plane. What are you planning to do about all the human error crashes that kill thousands more people? Maintenance errors? Design problems?

But yes, by all means let's ignore the FAR more prevalent problems that killed almost 700 people last year, so we can solve the problem that hasn't killed 500 people.

a reply to: Zaphod58

You entirely missed my point. We should make it more difficult for them. Couldn't hurt any could it?

a reply to: Greathouse

I got your point. But you want to focus on a problem that barely exists, when far more people are killed in human error crashes.

a reply to: Zaphod58

And the whole airline industry has been focusing on those problems for decades. Yet for some reason you resist them focusing on another danger.

See that's the problem why I don't get your point?

edit; just heard on the news that the Düsseldorf clinic is saying they never diagnosed him with depression.

a reply to: Greathouse

I'm not saying don't focus on them. But if you walked into a hospital with your arm cut off and spurting blood, and a slow acting poison in your blood that would kill you in months, which do you think should be focused on first?

a reply to: Zaphod58

We are again both starting to go round and round in circles. Human error in flight crashes and fatigue of parts is a huge problem for aviation. They have both been studied for decades to prevent loss of life. This is simply another way loss of life could occur but it is being ignored and minimized by people. It is a problem and it should be addressed with further regulations.


Btw I had a question for you I can't find any good information on it. When were navigators taken off commercial airlines. I assume it was after GPS technology developed?

a reply to: Greathouse

It's not addressed because of its rarity.

When they went to twin engine aircraft for long distance flights. The computers were able to do most of what the FE did before.

a reply to: Zaphod58

And you're feeling is that it should not be addressed because it's a rarity? A wing falling off of the plane is also rarity but they address that issue.