MUFON is a Joke

originally posted by: Scdfa

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: Scdfa

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: Scdfa

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: TrueMessiah

originally posted by: Harte

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you combed through my posts here at ATS but were unable to find a single instance of me posting anything at all that even the most dense idiot could construe in any way as a falsehood.



I can do this because I know that no such post of mine exists here - outside of obviously sarcastic remarks.

originally posted by: Scdfa

It's not hard at all to find you saying something that isn't true, Harte. And it sure doesn't take "the most dense idiot" to know that. When asked for any evidence at all to support your outlandish claim, you had none.

Well welcome to "the most dense idiot" club Scdfa.

Now currently at 4 proud honorary members:

originally posted by: Scdfa

Pure nonsense. That is a complete falsehood and you don't have any evidence to support your outlandish claim.

originally posted by: tanka418

LOL!!!

Seriously man, where did you get that stat?!!? I'm asking just like the others! That stat, is of course completely made up

originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly

wow...I wonder where you got that stat from

originally posted by: TrueMessiah

Wow some totally asinine claims being made here about abductions

Boy has that claim risen out of the murky depths to haunt you.

No hard feelings but Harte, you set yourself up with that one. lol

LOL



I just wrote what I remembered reading. I can't help it if some folks never bothered to try it before the internet.



Harte

What is even more absurd than your claim, is that you cannot even establish that you are correctly remembering the one magazine article from 40 years ago, upon which your claim is entirely based.



Let us know when you have more than nothing.

Why do you avoid addressing your own claim that I am lying? Because you realize that your claim is itself a lie?

Harte

Careful with your words, be more precise. I never said you were lying. I said you were wrong. Absurdly so. There's a big difference.

Weaseling now, aren't you.

originally posted by: Scdfa

It's not hard at all to find you saying something that isn't true, Harte.

originally posted by: Scdfa

That is a complete falsehood

Backing away from your claim? I'm not.

Harte

Definition of Falsehood: The state of being untrue

Words are wonderful things, and they all have definitions, it might help if you learned a few.

Falsehood does not mean you were lying, it means that what you said was untrue. I don't give you enough credit to know you were wrong when you said it. That would mean you were lying. In fact I give you no credit at all, and justifiably so, as you somehow still don't seem to realize you were wrong.

Where did you establish that I was wrong?

I gave my source. Where's yours? Nowhere to be found, that's for sure.

What it actually is is that you disagree:

disagree
verb dis·agree \ˌdis-ə-ˈgrē\

: to have a different opinion : to fail to agree

: to be different

: to not be suitable for or pleasing to someone
Examples of DISAGREE

I think that I should sell my car, but he disagrees.

Words are wonderful things, and they all have definitions, it might help if you learned a few.

Harte

a reply to: Harte

I gave my source. Where's yours? Nowhere to be found, that's for sure.

Whoa, slow down with the falsehoods...You never provided your source, despite repeated requests to do so. Let's see your source. Last you said, you remember reading it in some issue of OMNI, and cannot provide the article, or quote, or author, or issue. Isn't that the case?

My source, to counter your claim that up to 50% of all abductions come from NY high rises?

No problem. Start here, a vast database of abductions including location:

www.ufoabduction.com...

then you can go here, another extensive database of abductions including location:

www.alienabductiondb.com...

and then go here, for much more abduction data, including location:

www.ufocasebook.com...

and then you can look into this database of alien abduction investigations, including location:

www.mnmufon.org...

There's my sources, right there. NOW whose sources are "nowhere to be found"?

Yours, Harte. Show me your sources. They are nowhere to be found.

You bet we disagree. The difference is you have absolutely nothing to support your unfounded, unsubstantiated claim.

Whereas I just provided mountains of evidence, data, and documentation that establishes your claim to be false.

Here's some advice; when you realize you're in a hole. stop digging.

You will never be able to provide evidence to support your absurd claim that 25% to 50% of all alien abductions occur form NY high rises. Have the dignity to be embarrassed.

By the way, I haven't even needed to cite the abduction data from Europe and South America, of which there is an enormous amount, to establish your NYC high rise claim as nonsense.

MUFON is a "collector".
No active research. That's a pity .

Two easy ways:


A sensor network, like the private weather stations, connected to a server.
There are people who buy a weather station, and connect it to a network.
Why not a UFO Detector network?

The only costs for MUFON or other NGO:
Server and Software. Software for the Server and Domain (perhaps a front end like "FlightRadar24"), and Small Computer System (Raspberry PI 2, 3 or perhaps Zero with Linux), and smartphone app (Android and iPhone) for live warning.

The extension board XLoborg for around $12 has G-Sensor and Compass.
This is "Gravimeter" and "EM-Meter" ("Gauss-Meter").

A fluctuation in the local gravity field is naturally impossible.
And also impossible on the actual official physical knowlegde (not Bob Lazars explanation with "Element 115").
Therefore, fluctuations are a evidence of alien technology, or at least very secret military technology.
The EM meter is a good addition. Not a perfect evidence (Magnetic fiels are today possible), but a "flying field" (moving from one station to other stations) with a direction "is not usual".

And an anomaly can not be a technical error from two or more stations. Especially with a direction, speed changings etc..

Perhaps, the position, speed etc. could be determined by cross bearing (two stations and more).
Shown on a map. As airplanes on "flightradar24".

Everyone pays his technique itself.
Can also the technology in "dual-use" (also for WLAN-Hot-Spot, CCTV etc.).

Fixed on a stable wall (outside, or under the roof, perhaps in the room...). Not on a antenna Pole (fluctuate/sway or tremble).

Plus apps for Android and iPhone.
They transmit at any time the GPS location of the user to the server.
If an anomaly (potential UFO) appears, all users will receive a warning in a certain radius. Or when an abnormality is to reach a particular location because of its direction and speed.
"Attention, anomaly is in 3:24min on your location."

This increasing the number of potential withnesses, pictures and videos.
Even without its own station, a fellow play a very important function in the system.
Only with a free app!
This app could contain a foto and video function.
With azimuth and elevation angle in video details, if possible.
The videos and fotos from this anomaly area could send automatic to the servers (with option "only over WIFI").


Optional (further versions of software for PI) the possibility to connect cameras over USB.
Webcams, but also CCTV (more light sensitivity) over USB-DVR-"Cards" for CCTV-Cameras.


I would buy and install one or two stations in two different citys, but I can not write the software and set up a server.
MUFON would be a good "patron", but that may just make another NGO or new "club" or only a web page.






Another (BOTH is a good system) way:
Private Telescopes (8", 10"...) with automatic tracking, camera, and moving detection around the world, for monitoring the Moon and surrounding space "24/7" for landing or starting objects (on the moon). In every second in the night (the "moving night" over the globe), from different angles. Flocks of birds, water drops, technical error, this is then absolutely excluded.

Searching points ors "swarms" with non-Newtonian movements. Changing speed, direction etc..
Also small white dots are a perfect evidence for artificial intelligently controlled space ships, if he move "Non-Newtonian" (non-ballistic...).
Intelligent changing of speed and direction.


If two or more telescopes detects movement at the same time (or close to each other), the videos and perhaps photos will send automatic to a server (MUFON or other NGO).
Perhaps also additionally livestreams (meerkat, ustream, periscope, youtube-live etc..) and automatic uploads to a public account (every person and scientist can acces instantly).


THIS would be active research.
"Planetary SETI" for Earth and Moon.




@ AthlonSavage

Yes, no "breaking discoveries".
This could be a chance. And also advertising for MUFON and the matter.
"Citizen Science", "Crowd Working" etc..


@ 111DPKING111

Yes, Hangar 1 has some information.
But even sympathetic, but not always very objective comments :-).
For example, the chelyabinsk meteor. One type in "Hangar 1" said he had been fired shortly before impact from space with a projectile.
In the case of the abducted Trucker with "X-ray view" (after his abduction), an other man said that perhaps (if this was real), perhaps "all" is possible.

A good series is "Close Encouters".
Every episode two incidents ~9-12min.
With real names. For example "MUFON CES" veiled the name of the woman in the Plauen (Germany, Saxony) 1994 UFO incident.
archiv.mufon-ces.org...
"Close Encounters" says "Anna Hoferland". S01E10, second half..



@ all

The westall highschool UFO incident, is an "axiomatic" (over 200 good withnesses, close landing on a sunny day etc.) evidence for alien activity the solar system.
Or is here a person, that think this was the australien military ;-) .
Or does anyone believe this more than 200 people would lie?
That would be a very improbable conspiracy (without benefits for a person).
When you say "they lie", you are a "crazy conspiracy theorist";-).
The 200+ witness can not go wrong. Too good situation.

A silent landing and starting flying saucer (classic round shape, metal...)...
=> www.youtube.com...

Therefore, the MUFON investigators have the right to be convinced.
The other extreme are the scientists, physicist, they want to "find" (with all power) an natural explanation.
That's worse!
Look the strange explanation for Plauen 1994.
Monnlight in the clouds etc..
That's a impudence. Insulting the witnesses.
(more) Ridiculous as "swamp gas".





Musk, Bezos etc., could send a probe with high end camera technology around the moon, and perhaps mars.
Also as technology test and advertising for the company.
And if you "something" find (I mean, very possible), then the company will go down in history. Very good PR.

You all know, you can not trust the NASA and his photos. The
The "official" NASA is also made for "simulating research".
If NASA sends a probe to the moon, then other countries think:
"We do not need to spend money, we get the data and photos for free".

Musk, Bezos etc. (?) to uncover the truth.
But they need to ask the US government for each mission.
The US government can simply say "no".
But that would be very conspicuous...

The Pentagon has a veto.
NASA has "unusual" things or anomalys report to the DoD. For example, aliens, spaceships, "UFOs", Buildings (on the moon or mars)... are "unusually" ;-) .
If the Pentagon saying "no", the NASA can not publish pictures.
NASA would have to retouch. No other choice.
Missing images were conspicuous.
Would the Pentagon say "No" to publish pictures with aliens or alien technology? Of course!
That would trigger a private Run to the moon.
To recover technology and explore.
For patents etc ..


But the US space companys could found departments in other more liberal countrys.
Perhaps on the equator. Or French Guyana.
So they must no longer ask "dad" for permission.
They could secretely launch a probe to the moon.

a reply to: TobiasClaren

You seem to be unaware that there are already networks scanning the whole sky from multiple international locations. Some of them are used to monitor meteors, others are for tracking Near Earth Objects. All of this data is freely accessible:

www.allskycam.com...

As for all the other equipment you specified, it would be an expensive investment based on pure speculation. The Department of Defense no longer screens photographs taken from space; during the Cold War they did not want photos of military installations published; now that private corporations have unlimited access to space based Earth photography, there is no longer any point.

The DoD has the right of veto.
This is in the funding-law of NASA.
www.nasa.gov...
I mean not photos from the earth!
It is not (only) about images of the Earth (military facilities etc.).
It is generally to images from the moon, from the space station, from the mars etc..

Do you think, if the NASA has images from the back side of the moon with buildings, facilities, etc., the NASA would or could (!) publish it?
I think the DoD/Pentagon would say no. That would be logical for the military.
This would be high level technologies. Also a "simple toilet" (hiiiiigh tech recycling technology).
A private run to the moon could be triggered.
This is not a "freaky conspiracy theory" ;-) , the DoD would say "No!" to NASA.

As for all the other equipment you specified, it would be an expensive investment based on pure speculation.

This is not your money, not the money from MUFON etc., not tax money etc., this is only the money from the interested volunteers. Perhaps complete $25 (PI Zero, XLoBorg, power supply, sd card, WIFI) or $50-55 (PI3 with onboard WIFI...)
The only money by a operator is the server, that receive this data. And a software for the server, the Raspberry PI, and a smartphone app.
This could be coded by non payed persons, a group.
After the first great effort, only improvements.

And only energy, server, web hosting-connetion, domain. Low costs.
Possibly initially few dollars a month.
The more stations, the greater web space or server.
Initially possibly Shared Space is enough.




I mean not isolated cameras filming the sky.
I mean a network of sensors (gravitational and magnetic field, as in a smartphone).
Most without cameras.
Cameras are only optional! But not needed.
Only gravimetric anomalies are hard evidences for UFO activity.
Or at least very secret military technology.


This camera network covers the entire sky of the United States and other countries?
This camera network also pays attention to UFOs, or only quick light objects with a straight line?

And the moon and its environment is already monitored 24/7 by private persons for UFO activity?
You can not rely for observatory! If these irregularities, see that it will publish NEVER.
Why? This damages the reputation.

The Meteor Network & Observatories are not looking for UFOs.

originally posted by: noeltrotsky
I call garbage men a joke 6 days a week. On the 7th day I thank him for picking it up.

You think ugly about the crew for six days as you picked up and put in the container what they failed to get or spilled that 6th day? Is that a correct interpretation of your view?

I've had two close calls with MUFON over the years. One was a report I did about two (apparent) triangles back in 1984 moving low, slow and silently across a road on which an ex-paratrooper and his son had stopped to watch these strange craft.

The other case had to do with the famous Cash-Lundrum (SP?) close encounter near Houston where all three of the witnesses suffered radiation burns. Walt Andrus' exact words to me was that it was a military exercise operating off of an aircraft carrier in the gulf of Mexico. Basically, "Nothing to see here folks, move along."

The late MUFON official Richard Hall argued with me in their publications SKY LOOK, later renamed the MUFON JOURNAL that abduction case were not considered by the organization to be credible. MUFON has had and has some good people, but the primary motive seems to be look good while doing the dirty work of the old Project Blue Book.

a reply to: TobiasClaren

The DoD has the right of veto.
This is in the funding-law of NASA.
www.nasa.gov...
I mean not photos from the earth!

Where, exactly, does it say that? A simple section/paragraph citation would suffice. As far as the all sky networks go... so what If they are not looking for UFOs? If the UFOs are there, they will see them, right?

English is not my mother language (you see), I had now searched for a forum entry:

Public Law 85-568, 85th Congress, H.R. 12575 from July 29. 1958.



Short translated from the forum member:

"All discoveries of military importance, affecting the national security, must be submitted to the DoD.
Section 102 (c) (6)."



Look here:
history.nasa.gov...

I think that's it:

The making available to agencies directly concerned with national defenses of discoveries that have military value or significance, and the furnishing by such agencies, to the civilian agency established to direct and control nonmilitary aeronautical and space activities, of information as to discoveries which have value or significance to that agency.

UFOs, Aliens, Buildings on the moon are always "directly concerned with national defenses of discoveries that have military value or significance".
Therefore it is strictly forbidden for NASA to make such things public.



Possibly they received instructions from CIA or NSA, but today they are not actively looking for UFOs. On the contrary.
If UFOs come into the picture, they interrupt live streams etc..

This is of course.
NASA has to cancel a live stream when a UFO comes into the picture.
See the Linked law.
Absolutely no doubt, no "crazy conspiracy theory".
That is a fact, the law is clear.

a reply to: TobiasClaren

UFOs, Aliens, Buildings on the moon are always "directly concerned with national defenses of discoveries that have military value or significance".
Therefore it is strictly forbidden for NASA to make such things public.

If they exist. NASA has a track record of streaming data live; the 1958 legislation was primarily concerned with the location of carrier groups, etc.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: TobiasClaren

UFOs, Aliens, Buildings on the moon are always "directly concerned with national defenses of discoveries that have military value or significance".
Therefore it is strictly forbidden for NASA to make such things public.

If they exist. NASA has a track record of streaming data live; the 1958 legislation was primarily concerned with the location of carrier groups, etc.

Yes and no.

Perhaps it was the "primarily" reason, but in fact Aliens, UFOs and Buildings on other Planets or Moons are also affected.
Today, primary.

originally posted by: Swills
a reply to: thesearchfortruth

I've lost interest in UFOs. I blame hoaxes and CGI along with all around terrible videos of Chinese lanterns. I suspect my interest will only be piqued is if and when aliens make first contact, so I won't be holding my breath.

That's too bad because that's the whole idea,
so I'd say they got one more to look the other way .
Go back in time and read Gordon Cooper's letter to the UN
from 1974 and maybe it'll rejuvenate you?
www.leespeigel.com...