Indiana Gov. Mike Pence signs controversial 'religious freedom' bill

I wonder exactly what faith will be allowed to discriminate against potential customers.

Will business owners be allowed to discriminate against say.............fat people, ugly tattoos, people that wear brown shoes, people from Ohio and Kansas, nail biters, bad haircuts, etc.....all they have to say is..."it's against my faith to serve these geeks"

Or is it just Christians that are allowed to discriminate.

Here is my simple take on this. A small business owner should be able to refuse service to anyone they choose, not hire anyone they choose, etc....for ANY REASON. It is their business and if they feel that is the best way to run their business, it is their business they risk. Otherwise...you have government telling a business owner HOW to run their business which may cause their business to fail. And THAT should be illegal.

originally posted by: olaru12
I wonder exactly what faith will be allowed to discriminate against potential customers.

Will business owners be allowed to discriminate against say.............fat people, ugly tattoos, people that wear brown shoes, people from Ohio and Kansas, nail biters, bad haircuts, etc.....all they have to say is..."it's against my faith to serve these geeks"

Or is it just Christians that are allowed to discriminate.

Yes! In my opinion, a business owner could chose ANY reason not to serve, hire, etc. Why not? It is their business.

originally posted by: olaru12
I wonder exactly what faith will be allowed to discriminate against potential customers.

Will business owners be allowed to discriminate against say.............fat people, ugly tattoos, people that wear brown shoes, people from Ohio and Kansas, nail biters, bad haircuts, etc.....all they have to say is..."it's against my faith to serve these geeks"

Or is it just Christians that are allowed to discriminate.

Business owners should be able to discriminate against anyone they want. In turn, they won't be in business for very long.

It's a win-win.

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: Elton


Businesses are not people, they don't have the same rights and should have to cater to anyone who can afford their services (think of it as a trade-off for being allowed to operate in the USA economy.)

I have to call BS on this. As a business-owner, I should have the right to refuse business to anyone I choose. The market will deal with business-owners who make a habit of being assholes.

The problem is with assholes. If there were fewer assholes in the world, we wouldn't be having discussions like this.

not if it's because of a dislike for gay people....or black people....or brown people.....or evangelists....or right-wing rednecks, etc.

Actually, even for those reasons I should be able to deny service.

The simple fact is: no one HAS to do business with these people and, as I pointed out, when everyone realizes that the owner is an asshole they'll boycott the establishment and the business will fail.

I'd much rather see these bigots go broke and lose their livelihood than be forced to do business with people they hate. What do you think will happen to the quality of service when a homophobe is forced to help a gay couple?

yes they do have to do business with them, it's the law. look, if a person can't stand to have anyone other than straight white-Anglo-Saxon customers to do business with.....than go find another way of making money......

You are completely missing my point.

I can turn your statement around and say "if a person can't stand doing business with a bigot, they can go find another place to spend their money."

Would you prefer that these assholes be forced to do business with people they hate and thereby prosper? Why don't we let them do what they want and when word gets out, they'll go out of business?

We're on the same side, we just have different approaches.

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: Elton


Businesses are not people, they don't have the same rights and should have to cater to anyone who can afford their services (think of it as a trade-off for being allowed to operate in the USA economy.)

I have to call BS on this. As a business-owner, I should have the right to refuse business to anyone I choose. The market will deal with business-owners who make a habit of being assholes.

The problem is with assholes. If there were fewer assholes in the world, we wouldn't be having discussions like this.

not if it's because of a dislike for gay people....or black people....or brown people.....or evangelists....or right-wing rednecks, etc.

Actually, even for those reasons I should be able to deny service.

The simple fact is: no one HAS to do business with these people and, as I pointed out, when everyone realizes that the owner is an asshole they'll boycott the establishment and the business will fail.

I'd much rather see these bigots go broke and lose their livelihood than be forced to do business with people they hate. What do you think will happen to the quality of service when a homophobe is forced to help a gay couple?

yes they do have to do business with them, it's the law. look, if a person can't stand to have anyone other than straight white-Anglo-Saxon customers to do business with.....than go find another way of making money......

You are completely missing my point.

I can turn your statement around and say "if a person can't stand doing business with a bigot, they can go find another place to spend their money."

Would you prefer that these assholes be forced to do business with people they hate and thereby prosper? Why don't we let them do what they want and when word gets out, they'll go out of business?

We're on the same side, we just have different approaches.

Just a thought on the same lines. A person can choose based upon the business and the people running it, if they wish to do business with them. It should also work the other way around. That is a completely fair.

originally posted by: Kali74
I think this law will be challenged in court and be repealed.

The problem with that is that this Indiana Law is a duplicate of the Congressional Act, Religious Freedom Restoration Act, which was used by and provided Hobby Lobby with their defense against the ACA birth control mandate. They won their suit based on this very law in front of the Supreme Court of the land!

What to do? Get Congress to repeal the ACT, or take Congress and the ACT itself to the Supreme Court for the unconstitutional act that this is.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: olaru12
I wonder exactly what faith will be allowed to discriminate against potential customers.

Will business owners be allowed to discriminate against say.............fat people, ugly tattoos, people that wear brown shoes, people from Ohio and Kansas, nail biters, bad haircuts, etc.....all they have to say is..."it's against my faith to serve these geeks"

Or is it just Christians that are allowed to discriminate.

Yes! In my opinion, a business owner could chose ANY reason not to serve, hire, etc. Why not? It is their business.

That's true and completely agree. They will also have to learn how to deal with the vandalism from nihilistic teenagers and other disaffected youth. Arrogance and discrimination... has it's price!

As a retailer/wholesaler/mfgr, myself; I have found that it's just good business to be tolerant, provide good service and smile on the way to the bank.

imo this whole religious freedom BS bill is just pandering to the Christian right and won't help conservatives at all in the coming elections. Their base is strong but many people will react negatively to obvious discrimination. I will!

I hope they print a list of the discriminating businesses so those that disagree with this BS can avoid those businesses.

I'm a WASP, straight, white anglosaxon protestent male and I prefer to avoid places where I "might" be discriminated against for perhaps wearing a colorful scarf or loafers without sox.

Some enterprising person should print and sell signs reading....."We don't discriminate...Welcome all" and "Boycott Bigots"

a reply to: windword

I think we all knew the Hobby Lobby decision was going to be a dirty snowball disaster.

Worst decision ever made.

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: Elton


Businesses are not people, they don't have the same rights and should have to cater to anyone who can afford their services (think of it as a trade-off for being allowed to operate in the USA economy.)

I have to call BS on this. As a business-owner, I should have the right to refuse business to anyone I choose. The market will deal with business-owners who make a habit of being assholes.

The problem is with assholes. If there were fewer assholes in the world, we wouldn't be having discussions like this.

not if it's because of a dislike for gay people....or black people....or brown people.....or evangelists....or right-wing rednecks, etc.

Actually, even for those reasons I should be able to deny service.

The simple fact is: no one HAS to do business with these people and, as I pointed out, when everyone realizes that the owner is an asshole they'll boycott the establishment and the business will fail.

I'd much rather see these bigots go broke and lose their livelihood than be forced to do business with people they hate. What do you think will happen to the quality of service when a homophobe is forced to help a gay couple?

yes they do have to do business with them, it's the law. look, if a person can't stand to have anyone other than straight white-Anglo-Saxon customers to do business with.....than go find another way of making money......

Why don't we let them do what they want and when word gets out, they'll go out of business?

Like the white's only businesses in the south went out of business?

You are not an island. You are part of a whole.

Businesses that serve the public ---- serve the public. ALL the public.

"Right to Refuse Service" is about behaviors ---- not about who a person is.

a reply to: olaru12

Some enterprising person should print and sell signs reading....."We don't discriminate...Welcome all" and "Boycott Bigots"

There's been a lot of talk about doing exactly this. Many business owners are angry, embarrassed for their state and are talking about advertising that they won't discriminate and are very happy to accept everyone in their establishment

I think this could be very interesting - coupled with a genuine boycott it will create an obvious who's who of tolerance in that state

It shouldn't bother the religious because they're very comfortable with their beliefs, fought hard for this kind of legislation, won - and are now free to live out their religion in public

I can't see how they would mind who knows where they stand

:-)

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: olaru12
I wonder exactly what faith will be allowed to discriminate against potential customers.

Will business owners be allowed to discriminate against say.............fat people, ugly tattoos, people that wear brown shoes, people from Ohio and Kansas, nail biters, bad haircuts, etc.....all they have to say is..."it's against my faith to serve these geeks"

Or is it just Christians that are allowed to discriminate.

Yes! In my opinion, a business owner could chose ANY reason not to serve, hire, etc. Why not? It is their business.

That's true and completely agree. They will also have to learn how to deal with the vandalism from nihilistic teenagers and other disaffected youth. Arrogance and discrimination... has it's price!

As a retailer/wholesaler/mfgr, myself; I have found that it's just good business to be tolerant, provide good service and smile on the way to the bank.

imo this whole religious freedom BS bill is just pandering to the Christian right and won't help conservatives at all in the coming elections. Their base is strong but many people will react negatively to obvious discrimination. I will!

I hope they print a list of the discriminating businesses so those that disagree with this BS can avoid those businesses.

I'm a WASP, straight, white anglosaxon protestent male and I prefer to avoid places where I "might" be discriminated against for perhaps wearing a colorful scarf or loafers without sox.

Some enterprising person should print and sell signs reading....."We don't discriminate...Welcome all" and "Boycott Bigots"

Well...I wouldn't support people breaking the law, vandalizing, etc. Unless you are that kinda person??? But I would say this...I own a business. I would never turn away a customer for some stupid reason like race, gender, etc. I might turn them away and have if they are pushy, rude, etc. Any business owner stupid enough to put up a sign saying "NO BLACK PEOPLE ALLOWED" deserve to be out of business, and probably will be. But that is also their choice. But I defend their right to do so and I would fight for their right. Everyone in a free society has the right to be an ass if they choose. If they end up alone...that is their problem.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: Elton


Businesses are not people, they don't have the same rights and should have to cater to anyone who can afford their services (think of it as a trade-off for being allowed to operate in the USA economy.)

I have to call BS on this. As a business-owner, I should have the right to refuse business to anyone I choose. The market will deal with business-owners who make a habit of being assholes.

The problem is with assholes. If there were fewer assholes in the world, we wouldn't be having discussions like this.

not if it's because of a dislike for gay people....or black people....or brown people.....or evangelists....or right-wing rednecks, etc.

Actually, even for those reasons I should be able to deny service.

The simple fact is: no one HAS to do business with these people and, as I pointed out, when everyone realizes that the owner is an asshole they'll boycott the establishment and the business will fail.

I'd much rather see these bigots go broke and lose their livelihood than be forced to do business with people they hate. What do you think will happen to the quality of service when a homophobe is forced to help a gay couple?

yes they do have to do business with them, it's the law. look, if a person can't stand to have anyone other than straight white-Anglo-Saxon customers to do business with.....than go find another way of making money......

Why don't we let them do what they want and when word gets out, they'll go out of business?

Like the white's only businesses in the south went out of business?

Totally different place and time. How many of those white's only businesses are around today?

Come on, Annee, you'll have to do better than that.

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: Elton


Businesses are not people, they don't have the same rights and should have to cater to anyone who can afford their services (think of it as a trade-off for being allowed to operate in the USA economy.)

I have to call BS on this. As a business-owner, I should have the right to refuse business to anyone I choose. The market will deal with business-owners who make a habit of being assholes.

The problem is with assholes. If there were fewer assholes in the world, we wouldn't be having discussions like this.

not if it's because of a dislike for gay people....or black people....or brown people.....or evangelists....or right-wing rednecks, etc.

Actually, even for those reasons I should be able to deny service.

The simple fact is: no one HAS to do business with these people and, as I pointed out, when everyone realizes that the owner is an asshole they'll boycott the establishment and the business will fail.

I'd much rather see these bigots go broke and lose their livelihood than be forced to do business with people they hate. What do you think will happen to the quality of service when a homophobe is forced to help a gay couple?

yes they do have to do business with them, it's the law. look, if a person can't stand to have anyone other than straight white-Anglo-Saxon customers to do business with.....than go find another way of making money......

Why don't we let them do what they want and when word gets out, they'll go out of business?

Like the white's only businesses in the south went out of business?

Totally different place and time. How many of those white's only businesses are around today?

Come on, Annee, you'll have to do better than that.

It is not different. It is exactly the same scenario.

For you to claim "past history" is the same as choosing to wear blinders.

a reply to: Answer

Totally different place and time. How many of those white's only businesses are around today?

What's the difference between now and then?

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: Answer

Totally different place and time. How many of those white's only businesses are around today?

What's the difference between now and then?

Do I really have to point out the differences between modern day America and 1950's America?

Don't be silly.

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: olaru12
I wonder exactly what faith will be allowed to discriminate against potential customers.

Will business owners be allowed to discriminate against say.............fat people, ugly tattoos, people that wear brown shoes, people from Ohio and Kansas, nail biters, bad haircuts, etc.....all they have to say is..."it's against my faith to serve these geeks"

Or is it just Christians that are allowed to discriminate.

Yes! In my opinion, a business owner could chose ANY reason not to serve, hire, etc. Why not? It is their business.

Some enterprising person should print and sell signs reading....."We don't discriminate...Welcome all" and "Boycott Bigots"

Can't remember the state, but some equality supporting businesses did exactly that.

So the state (bible belt) tried to pass a law making it illegal. Fortunately, they did not succeed.

There are currently 23 bills similar to the Indiana bill waiting to be advanced.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: Elton


Businesses are not people, they don't have the same rights and should have to cater to anyone who can afford their services (think of it as a trade-off for being allowed to operate in the USA economy.)

I have to call BS on this. As a business-owner, I should have the right to refuse business to anyone I choose. The market will deal with business-owners who make a habit of being assholes.

The problem is with assholes. If there were fewer assholes in the world, we wouldn't be having discussions like this.

not if it's because of a dislike for gay people....or black people....or brown people.....or evangelists....or right-wing rednecks, etc.

Actually, even for those reasons I should be able to deny service.

The simple fact is: no one HAS to do business with these people and, as I pointed out, when everyone realizes that the owner is an asshole they'll boycott the establishment and the business will fail.

I'd much rather see these bigots go broke and lose their livelihood than be forced to do business with people they hate. What do you think will happen to the quality of service when a homophobe is forced to help a gay couple?

yes they do have to do business with them, it's the law. look, if a person can't stand to have anyone other than straight white-Anglo-Saxon customers to do business with.....than go find another way of making money......

Why don't we let them do what they want and when word gets out, they'll go out of business?

Like the white's only businesses in the south went out of business?

Totally different place and time. How many of those white's only businesses are around today?

Come on, Annee, you'll have to do better than that.

It is not different. It is exactly the same scenario.

For you to claim "past history" is the same as choosing to wear blinders.

It's completely different because people of all races and nationalities have a choice.

If you can't see the difference, you're the one with blinders.

Again I'll ask the question: would you prefer that these bigoted assholes be forced to serve people they hate, thereby making money and prospering or would you rather they show their true selves and experience the backlash from the community, the negative publicity, and the boycotts that drive them out of business?

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: Answer

Totally different place and time. How many of those white's only businesses are around today?

What's the difference between now and then?

Do I really have to point out the differences between modern day America and 1950's America?

Don't be silly.

No. There is no difference. You'll just make yourself look stupid.

I'm almost 70. It is my real life history.

a reply to: Answer

Do I really have to point out the differences between modern day America and 1950's America?

Don't be silly.

I like silly questions - especially when someone is stalling because they don't want to give the actual answer. Not really going to work in your favor, is it?

Throw in a little bit more condescension while you're at it. Go ahead - we'll wait...