Indiana Gov. Mike Pence signs controversial 'religious freedom' bill

originally posted by: jimmyx
a reply to: Annee

I agree with you completely....but....ignorance is gaining power all over this nation....voter suppression, abortion rights, gay equal rights, union rights, workers rights.....republicans want this to be the 1920's all over again, where wealthy white Christians ruled this country, and everyone else were 2nd class citizens. it's their conservative utopia.

Republicans have swung so far to the religious right ---- some Republicans are starting to speak up against their own party.

More need to open their eyes and act on it and remember we are a secular government.

a reply to: jimmyx

what people seem to forget is that there were more poor people who were christians than not. i'm also a bit reluctant to state matter of factly, that the rich of that era were necessarily christian. i seem to recall that was the golden era of hollywood, flappers and the ilk, and you wouldn't have found many christians in hollywood or flapping.

So the last time conservatives made anti gay marriage a election issue in 2004, the entire nation first elected democrats in both the senate and the house in 2006 then rose up and elected Obama 2008. Whats going to happen now that state legislatures have swung back to republican control and this is what they have chosen to work on?

Many of those anti gay marriage laws from GWB reelection of 2004 have been struck down as unconstitutional, can we expect both a public uprising in the next election against the republicans and can we expect this new group of discriminatory laws to be struck down as unconstitutional like the last group of unconstitutional laws?

originally posted by: undo
originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
there's no difference. twas too easy.

Very good, undo! You get a Gold (or green) star!

I was so hoping Turkenstein could enlighten me...

originally posted by: Turkenstein
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck
your reply was pointless.

Actually, no, it wasn't, it speaks to both the topic and the post I addressed...and I seem to have some agreement on the subject. To spell it out would be like explaining a joke, so don't let it worry you.

a reply to: Turkenstein

So ... You don't know what you mean by the phrase "homosexual event" then? Obviously it has little to do with either homosexuals or events ....

Perhaps businesses should post which "homosexual events" they will accept?

Why are you so interested in the subject again?

originally posted by: LDragonFire
Many of those anti gay marriage laws from GWB reelection of 2004 have been struck down as unconstitutional, can we expect both a public uprising in the next election against the republicans and can we expect this new group of discriminatory laws to be struck down as unconstitutional like the last group of unconstitutional laws?

Yes, but it goes deeper than this.

The last election showed that the youth were not voting for the Republican party, they were predominantly voting Democrat. It's easy to understand why, and you make this point pretty well in your analysis of previous voting.

American society has moved on, but the Republican party has not. The youth of the US in general are long past this religious moralistic nonsense, but the Republican party cannot give up on it. The Tea Party and the right-wing ranting we've seen becoming more extreme is a response to that, they know society is changing and they cannot stand it.

Some in the Republican party have actually been paying attention to the facts and figures, and they know that public sentiment is becoming more liberal on everything from womens rights to LGBT rights, they can see that their own party is not keeping up, and in some respects it's going backwards.

The Republican party is now almost split into two groups; those who understand a little about how the country is going socially (moderate Republicans who want to focus on economic issues and ignore all the religious stuff entirely), and the Tea Party loons who haven't been paying attention to their own society and are desperate to inflict their religion onto the rest of the nation whether they want it or not.

This is inevitably going to result in a split. The Republican party cannot carry on like this indefinitely. The Tea Party will be forced out eventually, when enough Republicans have finally read the memo that their moralistic preaching will no longer wash with the public.

You'll end up with a three party system, most likely. You'll have the Democrats, the Republicans (concentrating on economic issues) and the Tea Party (the far-right, Bible-thumping, bile-spewing, ignorance-preaching lunatics).

This would be the best thing for America. The radicals will never be able to secure any kind of real funding for their party and they'll be left out in the cold. The Republicans will focus on economic issues, which the majority of Americans would probably appreciate.

I don't think you really need to worry too much about the next election. Unless something dramatic happens in the meantime the Republican party is already dead in the water. Most Americans have moved on, they're more liberal in their thinking, they do not appreciate any cult telling them what is morally right or wrong, and they certainly don't want any political party placing one religious ideology above all others.

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: Rocker2013

The words were something else. The body language even more amazing. This is simply surreal.

Listen to his speech too, you can literally hear the moment he starts lying.
This is something most people can hear in the Human voice, we pick up on deception through voice more than any other sense. You can hear a very slight speech impediment starting when he's asked the first time whether this allows for Christians to discriminate.

this is a wake-up call as it pertains to the 2016 election.....gov. pence is the tip of the radical-right spear...as in...who will they come for next?....I can't wait for the first gay person to be physically thrown out of a business, for simply being gay....I'd personally hire the best and nastiest lawyers to sue the owner, the state , and governor Pence for hundreds of millions of dollars......see if the taxpayers of Indiana want to pay for those court costs and judgments.

originally posted by: Rocker2013

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: Rocker2013

The words were something else. The body language even more amazing. This is simply surreal.

Listen to his speech too, you can literally hear the moment he starts lying.
This is something most people can hear in the Human voice, we pick up on deception through voice more than any other sense. You can hear a very slight speech impediment starting when he's asked the first time whether this allows for Christians to discriminate.

maybe we should just call it what it is..."religious terrorism"......threatening a whole class of Americans with bodily harm, or jail time.......governor Pence is the new "mullah" of Indiana

originally posted by: LeoStarchild
No one will ever respect the wishes of someone religious beliefs... unless its Islam of course.

With that being said, I'm tired of people of the gay community forcing people to go along with their lifestyle, while not respecting anyone's wishes .. not to.

I'm sick and tired of people using this argument. Its not a lifestyle choice. We are not trying to get special treatment, just equal treatment. Why is this so hard to understand. LGBT community has never asked for special treatment, just to not be treated as 2nd class.

a reply to: Answer

That might work for some places however here's a hypothetical question:

What if a gay or black person ran out of gas or car broke down in a bigoted city with the only bigoted gas station and tow service there? That gas station obviously would thrive in that city. To make matters worse, what if it's in the middle of nowhere especially desert.

So your solution would not work for those businesses.

a reply to: Answer

The difference between then and now is that if a business owner refuses service based on someone's race, they can go online and let everyone know that the business owner is a racist.

You are the one who made the claim that those types of businesses will go out of business if everyone knows about them.

Here's a question: will a bigoted Christian business go out of business in a Bible belt even if people go online and let everyone know?

originally posted by: Megatronus
We are not trying to get special treatment, just equal treatment.

Isn't it ironic, that with laws like this one in Indiana, religious people are asking for and receiving the "special rights" they've always accused gay people of "demanding"... Seems they're just fine with "spacial rights", as long as it's THEIR special rights...

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: Answer

The difference between then and now is that if a business owner refuses service based on someone's race, they can go online and let everyone know that the business owner is a racist.

You are the one who made the claim that those types of businesses will go out of business if everyone knows about them.

Here's a question: will a bigoted Christian business go out of business in a Bible belt even if people go online and let everyone know?

It would probably increase the Christian business.

On a positive note....

This dumbass discriminatory bill by Gov. Pence has opened up a completely new dialog that Conservative Right wingers want to avoid at all costs. [Notice the lack of Conservative participation in this thread except for a few] The MSM will concentrate on questioning all republican canidates how they feel about this bill and this is a dialog that will make them look even more bigoted than they really are. Hopefully this dialog will spread to other states.

Stuck between a rock and a hardplace. And they brought it upon them selves...karma's a bitch in politics.

Even our local GOP members are in face palm mode. I'm sure Gov. Pence had hoped that this stupid bill would cement his position with the far Right Christians in Indiana and it probably did; however it just points out the bigotry and racism and loses votes rather than gaining them with thinking moderates in the GOP and further divides the party; something they can ill afford.

Not to mention the blowback economically Indiana will suffer because of short sided political pandering. Political reality is a tough game as it is, and it's much harder when you are stupid. If Pence had any further political ambitions...he can forget about it.

I can just imagine the finger pointing and blame game going on in the Indiana state house about now.

a reply to: olaru12

True. There is a lot of backlash and dissent regarding the Indiana bill.

The poor persecuted Christians.

Here's a quote from Pence:

But here Indiana steps forward to protect the constitutional rights and privileges of freedom of religion for people of faith and families of faith in our state. And this avalanche of intolerance that's been poured on our state is just outrageous." www.advocate.com...

a reply to: Annee

I'm beginning to think Pence doesn't even understand the bill.
Pence to Push for Clarification of Law

Gov. Mike Pence, scorched by a fast-spreading political firestorm, told The Star on Saturday that he will support the introduction of legislation to "clarify" that Indiana's controversial Religious Freedom Restoration Act does not promote discrimination against gays and lesbians.

"I support religious liberty, and I support this law," Pence said in an exclusive interview. "But we are in discussions with legislative leaders this weekend to see if there's a way to clarify the intent of the law."

If he needs clarification, how does he know that he supports it? I've read the law and I understand it. Does he have a reading comprehension problem?

The critical part of SB101:

...a governmental entity may not substantially burden a person's exercise of religion, even if the burden results from a rule of general applicability...

So, to make it plain an simple for Governor Pence, a government cannot force a person to sell gasoline to a gay person, even if the state business law says he cannot discriminate against gay citizens.

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

I think he understands the bill perfectly. With blinders.

I think he only sees the Christian perspective.

Political side-stepping doesn't fly.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

This ought to get him scratching his head and asking for clarification!

Paperwork Filed for the "First Church of Cannabis" in Indiana

LOL, Now what?