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Does a belief that we go on in spirit after we die require a belief in a god being?

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posted on Mar, 26 2015 @ 06:54 AM
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originally posted by: enlightenedservant
Nope. There are many indigenous groups & non-traditional religions that believe that the spirit lives on in different ways. Some believe the spirits pass on into new creatures (reincarnation) or can have parts of their spirit divided into new things (like trees, plants, or even man-made creations). Some believe the spirits can linger on the Earth for an unspecified amount of time, sometimes until certain tasks on Earth are finished. Some even believe the lingering spirits can possess or aid the living.


Most of these indigenous groups usually also believe in something the call "Great Spirit" or "Great Mystery".

I let you be the judge what reality they are trying to describe with these words.




posted on Mar, 26 2015 @ 07:05 AM
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a reply to: pheonix358


Man always seems to want someone to tell them what to do.

No, TPTB use the vengeful punishing God to keep everyone in line and make money.



posted on Mar, 26 2015 @ 07:13 AM
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originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: pheonix358


Man always seems to want someone to tell them what to do.

No, TPTB use the vengeful punishing God to keep everyone in line and make money.


As usual a bitter person sick with religious fundamentalists (I can understand) makes no distinction between the god of the old testament and the god the majority of people worldwide believe in.

Thus he makes uninformed broad generalizations and looks like a fool in the eyes of those who study the subject free from such a bias.



posted on Mar, 26 2015 @ 07:19 AM
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originally posted by: Develo

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: pheonix358


Man always seems to want someone to tell them what to do.

No, TPTB use the vengeful punishing God to keep everyone in line and make money.


As usual a bitter person sick with religious fundamentalists (I can understand) makes no distinction between the god of the old testament and the god the majority of people worldwide believe in.

Thus he makes uninformed broad generalizations and looks like a fool in the eyes of those who study the subject free from such a bias.

Its a comedy routine. (insert faring sounds)



posted on Mar, 26 2015 @ 07:50 AM
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originally posted by: intrptr
(insert farting sounds)


Classy...



posted on Mar, 26 2015 @ 08:27 AM
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a reply to: droid56

I believe in the "afterlife" but I don't believe in a "God", that is say, a Supreme Being, a Creator that has drawn a bead on this planet and what's going on in my mind, up close and personal!

I think that there's probably some sort of conscious ( spiritual) hierarchy, just like we have a societal hierarchy in life. But we don't call our mentors Gods, just like those who have proceed us and moved to the next levels of consciousness are not Gods.



posted on Mar, 26 2015 @ 08:37 AM
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NO!



posted on Mar, 26 2015 @ 08:40 AM
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originally posted by: DeadSeraph
a reply to: droid56

Then explain the source of spirit. To simply state that you believe something without providing a logical explanation for why you believe it is absurdity.

How could there be an afterlife and a soul, if there is no God? The former intrinsically implies the latter. Either we live in a strictly materialist universe in which there is no such thing as the soul or the afterlife, or we live in a created universe. You can't have it both ways, and if you think you can, you should at least delineate your conclusions.


No - it's just a immanent property of LIFE. No god needed.



posted on Mar, 26 2015 @ 08:47 AM
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a reply to: DeadSeraph

Only if you 'believe' in a finite universe. In an infinite universe there is no beginning or end.



posted on Mar, 26 2015 @ 08:53 AM
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a reply to: DeadSeraph

there can be a concept of spirit without God.

while it is more "normal" to consider spirit in the aspect of God....nothing would preclude a "soul" or "spirit" (from our perspective) that inhabits living beings.

What if each set of eyes in the universe was just a representation of another facet of the same consciousness?



posted on Mar, 26 2015 @ 09:40 AM
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From WWII, Cargo Cults tell the tales of remote villages that thought the men "who came down" in airplanes were gods.

We know that isn't true, from our perspective.

Neither are the God or Gods "who came down" much more than pilots, engineers and scientists who landed long ago and sowed the earth with seeds, wildlife and some people.

imo



posted on Mar, 26 2015 @ 10:29 AM
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originally posted by: intrptr
From WWII, Cargo Cults tell the tales of remote villages that thought the men "who came down" in airplanes were gods.


I don't see the relationship between white men being worshipped for bringing goods via planes, and "something" that most religions describe as eternal, infinite, immaterial, indicible, and a source of wisdom rather than material wealth.

But maybe you can help us understand your point?

Is your point that for you there is zero difference between superstition and religion?


Or maybe you are one of these people who believe human life was brought here by aliens? Because I don't think this hypothesis is being discussed here (it's not even necessary anyway since we have a good understanding of our origins through the study of evolution and our genome).
edit on 26-3-2015 by Develo because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 26 2015 @ 10:37 AM
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a reply to: Develo

well, religions have had millenia to wax philosophical about their own John Frum's.

It only took a few decades to make some dude named Paul Bunyon into a 50 foot tall giant. Imagine what would happen to John Frum after belief in him made it into the power structure and had 1000 years of "philosophy" thrown at it?



posted on Mar, 26 2015 @ 10:43 AM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Develo

well, religions have had millenia to wax philosophical about their own John Frum's.

It only took a few decades to make some dude named Paul Bunyon into a 50 foot tall giant. Imagine what would happen to John Frum after belief in him made it into the power structure and had 1000 years of "philosophy" thrown at it?



If religions were initially about the material stuff like you claim here, how come all religions and spiritualities worldwide, from the theistic ones to the more animist ones (chamanism and stuff like that), how come they are all centered around spiritual stuff?

About the existence of another reality on top of the material one. And it's in that reality that the beings call spirits, angels, demons, gods (supposedly) exist.

Are you seriously claiming that all this originally comes from a misunderstanding about the identity of a pilot?


That's certainly a very limited and caricatural vision of what spiritualities and religions are about... IMO
edit on 26-3-2015 by Develo because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 26 2015 @ 11:01 AM
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a reply to: Develo

Thousands and thousands of years before we have any record of what man was thinking, you find the basis of modern religion.

The variety you express only goes to show how utterly ancient the seats of religion really are.

My opinion? Religion starts as knowledge/insight into reality. In its purest form, it is science. Determine the mind of the creator by looking at the shadows it casts.

Then it goes from there and becomes intertwined with power structure, perverting a study of the intricacies of reality into superstition used to enslave.

Are there exceptions? Certainly. But it isn't just the Abrahamic religions that have sought to subjugate nonbelievers. Amerinds were quite adept and confounded religion and politics as well.



posted on Mar, 26 2015 @ 11:06 AM
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a reply to: Develo

Theres something there alright, we have misinterpreted it. The tales are hand me down, embellished over the millennia into what we have today.

Like the fish that got away keeps growing bigger every time the Angler tells it.

Or the game of Telephone I learned in school…

History is written by the victors, purposefully twisted by some to their agenda, etc.



posted on Mar, 26 2015 @ 11:09 AM
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how do you explain the existence of an afterlife without a god construct

or the existence of souls



posted on Mar, 26 2015 @ 11:13 AM
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a reply to: TzarChasm

why does an "afterlife" have to include angels sitting on clouds?

we have applied human order to a construct of an afterlife. nature rarely works that way....and that kind of thinking is very human. Like the child who believes that God put animals here to perform a purpose.

i see no reason why a consciousness could not exist beyond the confines of the body. Actually, if you follow the study of consciousness....it looks more and more like consciousness derives externally.



posted on Mar, 26 2015 @ 11:14 AM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Develo

Thousands and thousands of years before we have any record of what man was thinking, you find the basis of modern religion.

The variety you express only goes to show how utterly ancient the seats of religion really are.


Well, you know, we don't need written records to have a glimpse of what men were thinking very long ago.

Anthropologists usually coincide the apparition of the feeling of the "sacred" that is key to religions with the burial of the dead with objects to help them in the afterlife.

So basically the beginning of religions can be linked to the belief that the deceased keep existing in spirit form.


I believe science and religions were related simply because the priests and shamans were also wise men, healers and scholars.


But my opinion regarding the origins of religion is this: spirituality (the belief in a spirit world) began around or before the burial of the dead with some objects, while the belief in "other" spirits (angels, gods, sprites) was more linked to the mystical experience, which can be tied to the use of entheogens but not only.


So basically, IMO, it was clear from the start that religions and spiritualities are beliefs regarding the non-material aspects of life and it's relationship with the material.

The scientific aspect actually came LATER.


I can understand why someone not familiar with spiritualities and religions would believe they originated purely from the material world, but it's simply not supported by facts.

They originated from the symbolic/mental/spiritual vision of the world and it's still the case today.


If you ask someone who switched from atheist to theist why he did so, he will usually tell you he had some kind of internal and subjective experience that made him "experience" god. If tons of educated people can experience something like that today and become religious, there is no reason to believe it was different in the past.



posted on Mar, 26 2015 @ 11:21 AM
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originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Develo

Theres something there alright, we have misinterpreted it. The tales are hand me down, embellished over the millennia into what we have today.

Like the fish that got away keeps growing bigger every time the Angler tells it.

Or the game of Telephone I learned in school…

History is written by the victors, purposefully twisted by some to their agenda, etc.



So what are you saying here?

That the original tale is that aliens populated the earth, and that this was deformed to become animism, hinduism, buddhism or inuit religion? Am I understanding correctly?


What is it you claim was deformed?




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