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Breaking: Germanwings Pilot Was Locked Out of Cockpit Before Crash in France

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posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 09:35 AM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: jaffo

No, but I CAN say that this investigation is a joke. Even without citing evidence, claiming that he killed himself and everyone on board 24 hours after the plane crashed, with nothing but the CVR is a joke. This has been the neatest, bow tied investigation that I've ever watched, and I've watched and studied many of them. And the BEA going along with the prosecutor, and not saying anything just makes it worse.


Why exactly is going with the available evidence--which seems pretty clear, to be honest, "a joke?" Is the investigation completed? Did I miss the part where they stopped searching for more evidence? Because it seems to me that they are investigating actively and thoroughly right now as I type. What exactly is "a joke?" Do you say that the audio is fake? Is the video fake?




posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 09:35 AM
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a reply to: jaffo

The problem is that there's almost no way that they could have heard some of the things they claim to have heard. Such as the autopilot being adjusted, by the clicks of the knob. The CVR microphone is in the upper panel, towards the back, which puts it around the middle of the cockpit. A cockpit is not a quiet place. With all the other noise going on around it, it would be almost impossible to pick up the sound of the autopilot knob being turned.



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 09:36 AM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: jaffo

No, but I CAN say that this investigation is a joke. Even without citing evidence, claiming that he killed himself and everyone on board 24 hours after the plane crashed, with nothing but the CVR is a joke. This has been the neatest, bow tied investigation that I've ever watched, and I've watched and studied many of them. And the BEA going along with the prosecutor, and not saying anything just makes it worse.


And if we should not rely upon the CVR, what exactly should we rely on? What, we should just ignore that audio because...well, because you think we should? Is that how this works?



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 09:37 AM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: jaffo

The problem is that there's almost no way that they could have heard some of the things they claim to have heard. Such as the autopilot being adjusted, by the clicks of the knob. The CVR microphone is in the upper panel, towards the back, which puts it around the middle of the cockpit. A cockpit is not a quiet place. With all the other noise going on around it, it would be almost impossible to pick up the sound of the autopilot knob being turned.


Again, says you. I have to believe that the mic is there for a reason and that it is good enough to do its job. The people who build and install them are well aware of the noise level they have to deal with. Pretty sure they compensate for that or we would not have that mic in the cabin to begin with. And what about the captain trying to break down the door? I guess that just somehow does not matter?



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 09:37 AM
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a reply to: jaffo

Show me ONE other investigation anywhere in the world where 24 hours after the plane crashed, WITHOUT EVEN FINDING THE FDR, they announced a leading theory. You don't even START to develop a theory until you investigate everything, and look at ALL the evidence. Not "he turned the autopilot knob" he killed himself. It takes weeks to develop theories, after looking at the health of the plane, the actions of the pilots beforehand, the actions of the pilots in recent months, their financial records, health, the history of the aircraft, days of listening to the CVR to pick out everything you possibly can....

You don't listen to it once or twice, and announce that the pilot killed himself.



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 09:40 AM
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a reply to: jaffo

Doors fail. A pilot on here locked himself and the other pilot out of the cabin on the ground during a turn. He said it took something like three hours for maintenance to get it open. A Delta pilot in January was locked out of the cockpit after something got jammed int the door. The only evidence that they have that he locked it was the CVR.

Yes, they might be able to eventually get it out of the background noise, NOT after listening to it the first day. It takes days to clean it up to the point where you can pick out every single sound that it picks up.



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 09:47 AM
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a reply to: Exitt

There are a few areas of investigative concern, the autopilot programming, seeing pilot through video, oxygen mask, breathing rate, all from listening to the CVR.



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 09:48 AM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: jaffo

Doors fail. A pilot on here locked himself and the other pilot out of the cabin on the ground during a turn. He said it took something like three hours for maintenance to get it open. A Delta pilot in January was locked out of the cockpit after something got jammed int the door. The only evidence that they have that he locked it was the CVR.

Yes, they might be able to eventually get it out of the background noise, NOT after listening to it the first day. It takes days to clean it up to the point where you can pick out every single sound that it picks up.


I'm sorry but you can't say that. You have no idea whether that is true or not. The audio seems to be very, very clear to those who have heard it. If the pilot was accidentally locked out, why did the co-pilot not simply let him in? If there was low oxygen, why would the pilot change the course of the plane like he did? Why dd the co-pilot ignore control when they tried to contact him? Why did he deliberately reset the course--something that is clearly backed up by the digital data received by command and which initially caused them to contact the plane? Remember, the plane did not suddenly go into free fall. The co-pilot deliberately changed the course and then ignored attempts at communication. That is all backed up by the digital data. Why is it so surprising that in this case they actually got good data quickly. It happens in many crashes dependign on where the crash occurs.



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 09:50 AM
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originally posted by: theabsolutetruth

www.telegraph.co.uk...

"The captain asks Lubitz to check if the plane has shifted into descent mode. Lubitz does so and repeats to the captain: “You can go. You can go now.” At 10.28am, sounds can be heard from the captain’s chair. “The captain removes his safety belt,” it writes."

I don't understand this part...why would the captain ask him to check if the plane has shifted into descent mode at this point? Was something already happening at that time, or is this standard procedure?
edit on 4/1/2015 by whatnext21 because: ATS did not show quote

edit on 4/1/2015 by whatnext21 because: didn't show quote again

edit on 4/1/2015 by whatnext21 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 09:50 AM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: jaffo

Show me ONE other investigation anywhere in the world where 24 hours after the plane crashed, WITHOUT EVEN FINDING THE FDR, they announced a leading theory. You don't even START to develop a theory until you investigate everything, and look at ALL the evidence. Not "he turned the autopilot knob" he killed himself. It takes weeks to develop theories, after looking at the health of the plane, the actions of the pilots beforehand, the actions of the pilots in recent months, their financial records, health, the history of the aircraft, days of listening to the CVR to pick out everything you possibly can....

You don't listen to it once or twice, and announce that the pilot killed himself.


I guess I would ask: Why is it so hard to believe that when they listened to the audio they were like "Oh my God, this is awful"? Why is that so hard to believe? And what do you make of the doctor issue with the co-pilot? Or his statements to his ex about doing something that people would remember? Is she supposed to be in with "them" and helping cover up an air leak issue with these planes? Really?



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 09:58 AM
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a reply to: jaffo

If there WAS a problem with the plane, do you HONESTLY think that the pilot in the cockpit is going to say "Oh. I have a problem with the plane that I'm trying to solve, but let me stand up, walk to the back of the cockpit, and try to open the door for the other pilot"?

The doors JAMMED in the cases I cited. It took hours to get them open again, using a maintenance crew, while the plane was parked on the ground. With specialized tools.

As for communicating, Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. You fly the plane first, work the problem, and then worry about communicating with the ground. There's not a damn thing the ground can do to help you fix the problem, so deal with that FIRST, then worry about everything else.



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 10:00 AM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: jaffo

If there WAS a problem with the plane, do you HONESTLY think that the pilot in the cockpit is going to say "Oh. I have a problem with the plane that I'm trying to solve, but let me stand up, walk to the back of the cockpit, and try to open the door for the other pilot"?

The doors JAMMED in the cases I cited. It took hours to get them open again, using a maintenance crew, while the plane was parked on the ground. With specialized tools.

As for communicating, Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. You fly the plane first, work the problem, and then worry about communicating with the ground. There's not a damn thing the ground can do to help you fix the problem, so deal with that FIRST, then worry about everything else.


So it makes more sense to think that while the pilot is screaming, the co-pilot does not even give him a response? He just ignores him while he screams and tries to break down the door? That makes sense? No, it doesn't. And you still have not explained why the co-pilot changed course manually right after the pilot left the cockpit. Only if it was intentional does any of the rest of it make sense. You have to willfully ignore A LOT of evidence to say that we "don't know what happened." We do know what happened.



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 10:01 AM
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a reply to: jaffo

It wouldn't be the first time someone lied to an investigation. If they were trying to cover up a major issue with the plane, which Airbus HAS been having for years, then yes, they're going to get people to help cover it up.

There has been a problem with Airbus aircraft since 2008 that they've been trying to fix, that matches exactly what happened to this aircraft.



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 10:03 AM
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a reply to: jaffo

You've never been concentrating on something so intensely that you didn't hear noises around you?

It depends on what was going on. He may have been trying to get to a nearby airport.

We DON'T know what happened, until they have the FDR to show conclusively that there wasn't a problem with the plane. Barring the pilot sitting there saying into the CVR microphone, "I'm killing myself now by crashing this plane" the CVR doesn't provide 100% conclusive proof of anything. You need BOTH to determine conclusively what happened. And the FDR is conveniently missing.



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 10:04 AM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: jaffo

It wouldn't be the first time someone lied to an investigation. If they were trying to cover up a major issue with the plane, which Airbus HAS been having for years, then yes, they're going to get people to help cover it up.

There has been a problem with Airbus aircraft since 2008 that they've been trying to fix, that matches exactly what happened to this aircraft.


What is the problem they allegedly have been having and how does it match exactly with what happened here? Is the problem that the plane spontaneously changes course and sets itself to fly into the ground while the co-pilot ignores the frantic efforts of the pilot to get back into the cabin while he also ignores control's attempts to speak with him? Because unless that is the problem they have been dealing with, no it does not match what happened here. You also have not addressed the statements by his ex or the medical paperwork.



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 10:06 AM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: jaffo

You've never been concentrating on something so intensely that you didn't hear noises around you?

It depends on what was going on. He may have been trying to get to a nearby airport.

We DON'T know what happened, until they have the FDR to show conclusively that there wasn't a problem with the plane. Barring the pilot sitting there saying into the CVR microphone, "I'm killing myself now by crashing this plane" the CVR doesn't provide 100% conclusive proof of anything. You need BOTH to determine conclusively what happened. And the FDR is conveniently missing.


Yeah, it's "conveniently missing." Or maybe they are looking and just have not found it yet. In either case, data on the ground CONFIRMS that he changed course manually. You keep ignoring that fact. And for me, breathing calmly while you fly into a mountain is just as good as saying you are committing suicide. I mean really, that's a ridiculous standard to set, that unless he actually confesses to his actions as he dies we will not have proof that it was a suicide. ay to set the bar high enough that it will always be impossible to meet, lol...



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 10:06 AM
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a reply to: jaffo

The AoA sensors freeze during climb so that when the nose lowers at cruising altitude the aircraft initiates a nose low attitude, thinking that the aircraft is in a stall. It tries to recover, by dropping the nose to gain airspeed. Every time it's happened it happens when they lower the nose after reaching cruising altitude.

He had an eye issue. He chose to ignore doctors orders and keep working, instead of taking the time off to get it treated. You've never done that?



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 10:07 AM
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I find it interesting that the media is jumping on the "he was depressed" train so quickly and with so much voracity. We don't even have the FDR yet, but apparently the entire incident is neatly figured out, complete with a bow on top? What?

Even on more "open and shut" crashes it doesn't go this way. Something isn't right, and I've been saying this from day one.



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 10:09 AM
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a reply to: jaffo

You think that you'd be able to keep your breathing perfectly calm just before you died? Even if you chose to die? You wouldn't have a single hiccup in your breathing?

No, I'm not saying that is the standard AT ALL. I'm saying that this has tied everything up with a huge red ribbon, tied in a pretty bow, and did it faster than ANY investigation in history. AND did it without the FDR, which for one of the incredibly few times in history, went missing.



posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 10:12 AM
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a reply to: whatnext21

I guess that is yet to be clarified, just like the previous points 'clarified' on the recent CVR release.

Previous reports suggest the flight was on autopilot at cruise altitude and not in descend mode. It doesn't make sense for the pilot asking that seeing as he was in control, unless he did the action and was requesting confirmation.



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