Israel must end its 50-year occupation of Palestine, the White House says

a reply to: daaskapital The land the Israelis call home has been their home since the time before the Pharaoh's of Egypt. The promise is first made to Abraham (Genesis 15:18-21). So no matter what modern day politicians say. The Israelis have all the right in the world to be where they are.

Threads a joke, people demonizing as usual, pretending as if any fight that ever happened has a single causation... a place to blame.

Obama is truly an idiot, as someone posted on the first page one of the rare comments that made sense "it seems as if he is going to do everything possible to create a caliphate under Turkey/Saudis"

For starters this push is ridiculous for multiple reasons, one it's his own freakin idea and no one is going to stick with this program in the US govt when he is gone, making an enemy of Israel given the sheer intelligence they have on this country, the number of nuclear weapons and scientists is just about the worst situation you can create. There is NO taking down Israel any more than Russia or North Korea or others without ruining everything... the sheer ridiculousness of where our foreign policy is going... messing with Russia, "pivoting" at China (might I add for no reason whatsoever) and now Israel... NONE of it will play out well, at worst your risking the death of Millions... at best your just going to be told to eff off and be Impotent because if you strike they WILL kill a lot of somebody's....

On a level you gotta like the balls on this guy to a degree... but you just can't.... stop Seoul from being Nuked by NK and or Tokyo or prevent Israel from ending oh I dunno... every capital in the region and a few in Europe for shiz and giggles? You can never "occupy" China lol or defeat Russia with Europe intact

When 9-11 happened the US economy reeled... from two buildings

This is BS Talk... You can't make Israel go anywhere it's false, it's nonsense, it's just making a BAD enemy over bad politics over a situation that can't be resolved and worse... when your a country who invades multiple nations in the same time frame, sews the soil with depleted Uranium that will cause birth defects for centuries, kills a MILLION or so people then lets the locations fall to groups like Isis and occupies dozens of nations and points thousands of Nukes and maintains a dozen Carrier Battle groups around the world.... you can't say Crap... about a (in the end seriously) a minor land dispute.

Let me repeat that for the Americans and everyone else...

You Idiots killed 80 Million people in WW2 alone, America hasn't gone a decade since without Invading some place, from the debacle that created North Korea to Agent Orange to overthrowing govts to placing the world under threat of Non existence via Tens Of Thousands of ICBMS for Decades to the war on terror...

How the hell...

How...

Go you people, does this govt have the freakin NERVE to call ANYONE on their personal land dispute on a shared border within yards or claim THEY do anything wrong when outside of this summers aggression's which heated up... over the last decade... More Americans shot each other in the head in Detroit every year than people actually died in the dispute?

Such Hypocrisy

You Ignore 500,000 rapes and murders in places like Darfur... You watch your country turn other country's that weren't even implicated in 9-11 into dust bowls and nightmares and people that did NOTHING die by the Millions...

But LOL the freakin Palestinians and Israelis shoot rockets at each other...again, you DEMONIZE one side or the other, bring it to the front of the world because on either side your freakin Racist as hell... You either hate Muslims or you hate Jews

EVERY SINGLE PERSON (almost) who makes this a giant issue in the SCOPE of things where it is actually Nothing while IGNORING everything else is a liar... If you cared about death and murder and the tolls and the "people" being eradicated... you'd be in the street with pitch forks about your OWN Countries... at least these guys have different Ideologies and a legitimate land dispute

Heck, the Israel Palestinian fight...the deaths are a legit fight, someone will win, someone will loose but it was fought for a reason.... But you people... You take sides over hate you never had a reason to feel and do NOTHING about the murder of Millions for... for profit.

The Jews and Palestinians are between a rock and a hard place their fight is righteous... everyone else advocates the USA just carving up regions and interfering over money... I wont "Hate" either side, they have a real dispute, every one else calling name is just pathetic bigots who wont confront the real murderers in the world because they justify it in their heads.

So here is anther Hate thread...

And you all have sides

while you fund the largest death machine every constructed with the hard work that should be your children's futures allow it to be used every damn day drone strike after drone strike...

and judge either the Palestinians or the Israelis? Believe Obama even has the right to but his nose in yet somewhere else we don't belong?

Who the hell gave any of us God Damned audacious idea, that we have the right to go kick the living crap out of nations murder whoever we want in numbers of Millions and then lay judgement on anyone fighting over a legit personal and LOCAL dispute halfway around the world?

This debate is so old already.... you lunatics have more people getting shot in your individual cities for walking down the street at night than people die most years in the entire conflict...

Here is the REAL:

Your suckers

By itself, this would RESOLVE in months if fought out, whatever happens there would be people displaced and it would END... but it's been MADE to continue by the outside interests of America and a whole list of jerk offs ranging from the Brits, the French to Russia and Iran and a host of others for MONEY and POWER, your name calling PAWNS in a larger Chess game when there should ONLY be sympathy over a tragic situation resulting from WW2 and doing it at the Behest of Political and corporate entities who don't give a flying crap if every Jew and Palestinian in the region died tomorrow....

I'm sorry... almost every comment in these threads is biased bs

Our Govt isn't going to solve squat, it can't

And your respectively being led to over dramatize and escalate a local conflict into a global event for the power moves of OUTSIDERS, so change the words... you support the Palestinian actions Say it like it is you support IRAN, You want Syria ousted say you want the PIPELINE to China finished etc etc et al...

But stop Jew and Palestinian bashing... their local conflict is being USED for a dozen reasons and players that have no care who lives or dies, by itself this would have resolved 2 decades ago and NO, not by genocide. Neither the Israelis nor the Palestinians would even remotely have the capacity to anything other than a fight they would weary of in due time without interference... as in giving Israel Nukes in the first place or supplying the Palestinians with rockets or trying to Invade Israel...

I'd bet my life if it was a normal gun fight and no one stepped in from either side... they'd have come to some sane terms ages ago...

For once, I actually agree with them. What Israel is doing to Palestine should be a crime. They both need to learn to live together and that starts with Israel not treating Palestinians like dogs.

a reply to: AnAbsoluteCreation

Most of these guys are liar's and don't have any proofs for their claims. I've already exposed some of them in the act.

Don't get stressed by them, because it's like Aristophanes: "You won't persuade me even if you convince me."

Still, keep on exposing the facts. Keep it simple for what is possible.

a reply to: STTesc

And is that idea from the American concept that if you put a Gay guy a Black guy a Latino and White guy in a dorm room together everyone will learn tolerance?

Not trying to be snide... but that's never going to happen here.

The American philosophy of Multiculturalism now that we are headlong into yet again forcing our agenda on the world is going to bite us as hard as the Master Race philosophy bit Hitler...

I'll even tell you where, Israel will be the first mistake because, well they will go down Nuclear but we will remain jerks and keep pushing it even after a couple of cities go...

China, when 1.5 Billion Chinese keep butting heads with our IDEA that people should just "give up their identities and mesh together" That's when America will end up no more...

The Israelis aren't giving up Israel and the Palestinians aren't leaving and we made a HUGE mistake arming the region to the teeth and people have to die for this to end... These people wont conform their ethnic and religious identities... ever.

We should stop making it worse with our ideologies, i'm not poking fun...

Multiculturalism is OUR way, I like it, I believe immigration is a Strength, I believe we have more in common here than we do difference. But the application of this kind of thought to devout religious regions, cultures like China or Israel with 5000 years of tradition or even Russia which is just proud and whitey as all heck...

It's not going to fly

There's not going to be a 2 State solution, neither side wants it... many, too many would rather die...

Capitalism, that we were able to win a cultural war around the world over... "look money you can buy nice Jeans" everyone likes nice jeans lol...

We are turning into a global enemy to most nations with the thought line you express, what we are pushing is the loss of identity and culture and we scream apartheid and call it names... 3 -5 Billion of the rest of the world wants us dead and we are stepping on toes that can do the job...

It's their conflict, it's irreconcilable.

a reply to: AnAbsoluteCreation

As somebody that tries their best to maintain a balanced outlook on the Israel-Palestine conflict, I must say that the information you have presented is quite damning.

You appear to be very knowledgeable about history and must have conducted a fair amount of research to arrive at your conclusions.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: AnAbsoluteCreation
Haha. You disregard heavy evidence and then reply with that? You are brainwashed.

Anyone would've walked away from those negotiations. Don't act like it was a real two-state solution. That it was not. Jews were only 7% of population and being given 55% of the land. More importantly, the land with access to all the water resources. That wasn't a solution, it was a joke.

Please, don't even reply if you're going to respond with that negligence.

AAC

Your ignorance is astounding.

800,000 Jews vs. 1,200,000 Arabs. 7% of the population? Simply false, like everything else you claim.

No Sir!
Population census from United Nations Report:

Big picture:


As you see, in 1922, before the occupation, there were: 83.790 jews, 486.177 moslems, 71.464 christians, 7,617 others.

Total population was 649.048. Of them 12,9% were jews.

with the occupation, in 1946: 608.225 jews and 1.237.334 of every one else.

So even in the occupation you "intentional(?)" lied. There were only 608.222 not 800.000.

So after the occupation jews raised from 12,9% to 32% of the entire population.

Quoting you over there: " Your ignorance is astounding."

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

First:
Benny Morris is jew and Zionist, that is enough to not be used as reference to expose the truth in favor of who attacked first.
from wiki Benny

He is accused by some academics in Israel of only using Israeli and never Arab sources, creating an "unbalanced picture". Regarding himself as a Zionist,[..]

Second:

Zionism, however, does not content itself with mere propaganda in favor of the fulfillment of its expansionist projects at the expense of the Arab countries. Its plan involves recourse to terrorism, both in Palestine and in other countries.

It is known that a secret army has been formed with a view to creating an atmosphere of tension and unrest by making attempts on the lives of representatives of the governing authority and by destroying public buildings

The responsibility for the disturbances which might result therefrom throughout the Middle East will rest solely with the Zionist organizations, as having been the first to use these violent tactics.

source

Third:
Accusing anyone of starting whatever you claim to happened, doesn't give anyone the right to commit:
Genocide, War crimes, Violate International law, Collective punishment, Illegal occupation, theft of land, Imprison others, Starve, Harass and the kill those who don't agree or want to submit to your will.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
Here's my solution:

The UN steps in. The international community agreed to create the nation of Israel in the first place, so have the UN step in and basically say:

"OK boys and girls listen up! Since NONE of you can get along, NO ONE gets to have a country anymore. This entire geographical area is now under UN control, and belongs to ALL the people of planet Earth. The UN will police and establish a representative government that any ethnicity is allowed to participate in. The UN will also fund this area and place it's headquarters in Jerusalem instead of New York."

There you go, turn Israel into a neutral, UN controlled country that NO ONE "owns".

Sheesh.

Problem with that is the UN doesn't actually have an army to occupy with. It would need member nations to donate troops.

But if you think the guerrilla wars in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan were bad, just imagine the backlash if most of the MidEast was occupied. Every member nation with troops there would become a target. And don't forget Israel's "Sampson Option".

Plus it would be pretty hypocritical for the UN to scold those countries when its member nations played such vital roles in creating the turmoil in the first place. I'm talking about the UN Mandates for Israel & Palestine; the Western nations colonizing the Mideast after WWI; the constant interference in Mideast politics when their leaders don't agree with the West (like kicking out Mossadeq then installing the Shah in Iran & the destruction of Iraq & Libya's infrastructures).

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: the2ofusr1

True, the UN really doesn't have the fortitude to step in and just take over the entire region. I doubt they'd be able to get a majority of the world powers on board either. It would be an interesting setup though!

That is the one real failing of the UN, it does not have its own 'police force' , Its only 'the west' that takes any notice of it anyway, especially America, and the UK ie, agenda 21. Also, what we can and cannot send through the mail!

Readiong/watching the news, seems to me, 'the west' is only too happy to assist Hamas in its stated aim or destroying Israel, one of the oldest nations on earth, who have lived in the region since the time of Abraham, without a break.
The only other, older, nation, is Egypt. (in that area).

originally posted by: pikestaff

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: the2ofusr1

True, the UN really doesn't have the fortitude to step in and just take over the entire region. I doubt they'd be able to get a majority of the world powers on board either. It would be an interesting setup though!

That is the one real failing of the UN, it does not have its own 'police force' , Its only 'the west' that takes any notice of it anyway, especially America, and the UK ie, agenda 21. Also, what we can and cannot send through the mail!

But think about it, who would their troops be loyal to? Would they still be citizens of a country or would they have to revoke their citizenship? I ask this because how could we expect troops to loyally attack or bombard their homeland, just because UN Representatives ordered them to?

I could see the UN soldiers doing that if they were mercenaries, but that presents its own problems. Like would we really want a group of powerfully armed mercenaries that are loyal to no country to be in charge of international law enforcement? Their weapons could just as easily be turned on us. That's why the UN is set up more like an alliance of sovereign nations than as a separate power.

Some of you will be disappointed but amnesty International is accusing Hamas of war crimes. Not that many of us needed them to come to that conclusion.



War Crimes

Amnesty International has published a damning report on Hamas’s conduct during last summer’s Gaza war, accusing it and other Palestinian armed groups of committing “war crimes” by firing rockets and mortars into Israel.

originally posted by: Logarock
Some of you will be disappointed but amnesty International is accusing Hamas of war crimes. Not that many of us needed them to come to that conclusion.



War Crimes

Amnesty International has published a damning report on Hamas’s conduct during last summer’s Gaza war, accusing it and other Palestinian armed groups of committing “war crimes” by firing rockets and mortars into Israel.

The irony is the article you linked is actually saying Amnesty International says they both did, not just Hamas.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: daaskapital

Maybe they should have thought about this before they attacked the Israelis. Palestinians started the problem and have continued it. No sympathy.

History and the UN says you are wrong. Israel started ethnic cleansing the land on day one that is when the Arab forces came in because Israel attacked Palestine. You have no sympathy because you are a supporter of Israel and in your eyes they do no wrong.

a reply to: enlightenedservant


Thats Irony? It goes without saying that Israle is going to be accused. No story there.

originally posted by: Logarock
Some of you will be disappointed but amnesty International is accusing Hamas of war crimes. Not that many of us needed them to come to that conclusion.



War Crimes

Amnesty International has published a damning report on Hamas’s conduct during last summer’s Gaza war, accusing it and other Palestinian armed groups of committing “war crimes” by firing rockets and mortars into Israel.

Of course they have that is why leaders from both Hamas and Israel should be put on trial to face justice for the crimes they have committed. And if they swing from the gallows then so be it.

a reply to: AnAbsoluteCreation

They destroyed the AF in a day because there are no hardened bunkers. The airstrikes saved 1000's of lives by not attacking head on in the first day of the war. Israel was not an aggressor, but did not feel like getting its ass kicked when it was being surrounded on all side. A one on one fight is one thing. If 5 people are going to kick your ass I am not going wait till 3 start to throw blows.

Palestine is a once beautiful country that has been controlled by other countries historically and recently held hostage by radicals and Islam. There has NEVER been a true Palestinian state. The current state that is there was instilled by the British after the fall of the Ottoman empire. After WW1, not WW2, Britain promised a homeland for the Jewish people to return. The Jewish people did not just show up fleeing Nazi Germany after WW2.

Blinded by what we read in a modern time is a scary thing. Find a history book written before the 1920's and you will be suprised how different the story is.

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: daaskapital

Maybe they should have thought about this before they attacked the Israelis. Palestinians started the problem and have continued it. No sympathy.

History and the UN says you are wrong. Israel started ethnic cleansing the land on day one that is when the Arab forces came in because Israel attacked Palestine. You have no sympathy because you are a supporter of Israel and in your eyes they do no wrong.

Actually they started doing the ethnic cleansing even before the British left. Out of the roughly 750,000 Palestinians forced out during the Nakba, something like 250,000 were forced out before Israel declared its independence. That's when the Stern Gang & others were pushing "land redemption" and "Plan Dolet".

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: daaskapital

Maybe they should have thought about this before they attacked the Israelis. Palestinians started the problem and have continued it. No sympathy.

History and the UN says you are wrong. Israel started ethnic cleansing the land on day one that is when the Arab forces came in because Israel attacked Palestine. You have no sympathy because you are a supporter of Israel and in your eyes they do no wrong.

Yea everything over there was fine as long as the Jews remained like the huddled masses. But then they stood up and took action for self rule. Thats when they were attacked.