British Muslims want Islamic law and prayers at work

www.guardian.co.uk...

Muslims in Britain want greater recognition of their faith with the introduction of Islamic law for civil cases and time off for prayers during the working day, but are equally committed to greater participation in British life.

A special Guardian/ICM poll based on a survey of 500 British Muslims found that a clear majority want Islamic law introduced into this country in civil cases relating to their own community. Some 61% wanted Islamic courts - operating on sharia principles - "so long as the penalties did not contravene British law".

Ok, what do we think?? to be really honest, i do not want to be living in country were a group are entitled to different laws. We should share the same laws,etc and it shouldnt be changed because of religious views etc. To be honest, something like this could divide the UK.

[edit on 19-1-2005 by astrocreep]

I feel (and i dont mean to sound racist but how many english born Muslims do you know?) if they're want to come to our country they should abide by our laws rules and not have differant treatmeant whether their relgion says s or not.

IMHO

Shorty

[edit on 19-12-2004 by shorty]

Originally posted by shorty
I feel (and i dont mean to sound racist but how many english born Muslims do you know?) if they're want to come to our country they should abide by our laws rules and not have differant treatmeant whether their relgion says s or not.

IMHP

Shorty

You've hit the nail on the head.
Im not sounding cruel, but Democracy and Islam do not work. The point you are making about English born Muslims is true, i only know one. The Muslim Council of Britian is hardly "English Born". This is not good news to be honest.

Originally posted by infinite

You've hit the nail on the head.
Im not sounding cruel, but Democracy and Islam do not work. The point you are making about English born Muslims is true, i only know one. The Muslim Council of Britian is hardly "English Born". This is not good news to be honest.

Thanks,i though i was about to be crucifed im glad to see that im not the only one that feels this way and i cant say im surpirsed at this sort of thing becomeing more frequent.

But these laws are going to over come us one day. We have become the country with our arms wide open to all nationalitys and its takeing its toll. The U.K is tense right now, alot of people see at as an invasion of there homeland and this sort of law and even idea just make things worse and yet it continues and there appears to be no stopping the rights that differant ethnic groups get that are more convnient than our own.

Originally posted by shorty
But these laws are going to over come us one day. We have become the country with our arms wide open to all nationalitys and its takeing its toll. The U.K is tense right now, alot of people see at as an invasion of there homeland and this sort of law and even idea just make things worse and yet it continues and there appears to be no stopping the rights that differant ethnic groups get that are more convnient than our own.

I know people all over the country (really i do lol) but yeah, i have sources in groups from islamic to the far right. My sources in the far right tell me that the UK will explode in about 5 years because more and more people (not your stereotypical far right followers) ,but normal people like us, are getting very annoyned at immigration.

Originally posted by infinite
.My sources in the far right tell me that the UK will explode in about 5 years because more and more people (not your stereotypical far right followers) ,but normal people like us, are getting very annoyned at immigration.

Explode!!!!



Ah, i get it now.

Well its inevitable really isn't it. (The explosion i mean)

I mean i seem to remember some old guy in my town having to take down Xmas lights in his front garden because of the "ethnic group" who lived next door and didn't agree. I also seem remember that the "ethnic group" living next door to him had called the police on sevral acasions after the incident because some people werent being polite to them. Could it have been the fuss they caused because of some sparkly light?

[edit on 19-12-2004 by shorty]

Originally posted by shorty
Explode!!!!

Ah, i get it now.

Well its inevitable really isn't it. (The explosion i mean)

I mean i seem to remember some old guy in my town having to take down Xmas lights in his front garden because of the "ethnic group" who lived next door and didn't agree. I also seem remember that the "ethnic group" living next door to him had called the police on sevral acasions after the incident because some people werent being polite to them. Could it have been the fuss they caused because of some sparkly light?

[edit on 19-12-2004 by shorty]

its very "easy" to "offend" ethnic group by our way of life. Dont want to sound rude, but i was born here so i can do what the hell i like. With the example you have given, you clearly show how the tention is getting. First its something silly then it will be something major

Originally posted by infinite
We should share the same laws,etc and it shouldnt be changed because of religious views etc.

It doesn't matter if your white, black, asian, arab, christian, muslim, hindu etc you should live by British law.

If i went to France, i'd be living under French law, i may not like it but the law is the law.

Concerning an explosion in Britain between Muslims and the far right, i believe it is no longer a if but rather a when. I thankfully will be far away from both sides, happily sitting on the centralist fence no matter how painful it maybe.

I hope I'm not sounding racists here(because I'm not!).
It's the old saying .....when in Rome.
Interestingly enough if the roles were reversed ie: you demanded the same
thing in their country, you could be jailed or much worse.
Hypocri sy at it's best

Originally posted by infinite
Democracy and Islam do not work.

thats a pretty blanket statement, considering you know little about islam. Just because you have never seen it work does not mean it won't.

I don't see the big deal about this at all.

Lots of ethnic groups work to their 'laws or ways' here in the UK already and many employers are only too happy to accomodate these needs if they can (the UK Civil Service for instance tries very hard in this respect)....especially companies operated and significantly or mainly staffed by those ethnic groups.

Go to the east end of London and see Jewish-owned firms operating Jewish customs or look at Muslim fabrics companies in the midlands operating Muslim traditions.

From the article you quote Infinite I'd say the salient point is "did not contravene British law" which indicates to me that the authors are well aware that these people are asking for nothing at odds with British law.

I also find this idea of the UK set to "explode" desparately far fetched.
All I can say is I have know and worked with several Muslims at various times in my life and I have not and do not see this 'tinderbox' of 'aliens' anywhere for real.....

.....funnily enough the places I have heard it most is in towns where there are relatively few Muslims.....

....and the massive irony is that these people are now fairly accustomed to living with their black neighbours and have turned their fears and attentions on to the asians!
I've litterally heard people comment about the 'blacks being ok but the "paki's".....'.
It's absurd and very sad IMHO.

Prayer times at work doesn't seem such a big deal, I used to work with a muslim guy who took a few minutes off throughout the day to pray and no-one had any problem with it. Truth be told I probably took more time off for fag breaks .

I don't think they should be allowed to use sharia law here, this country's legal system is based on the same law for everyone, be they street sweeper or prime minister and should be applied regardless of colour or creed. Even if it is just in civil cases (which may be the thin end of the wedge) it will inevitably come into conflict with British law at some point.

We may have muslim, christian, jewish, buddhist, chinese and martian communities here but they are all a part of the wider community which is Great Britain. If you want to practice sharia law, why come and live in a secular country?

I found a couple of links about sharia being used in canada which are quite good:

Link 1

Link 2

I'm not too sure about link 2, even though it's from MSN because of this quote which I know to be completely untrue:

in Malaysia, women may not travel without the written consent of a male.

Prayer times at work doesn't seem such a big deal, I used to work with a muslim guy who took a few minutes off throughout the day to pray and no-one had any problem with it. Truth be told I probably took more time off for fag breaks

I don't think prayer times at work are any big deal either, as far as I know
it's pretty widespread here in Australia as well.
It the thought of Sharia Law creeping it's way into western societies, that
has a lot of people frightened.
Say you have a couple commiting adultery, one a muslim one not. What
happens then, who's law do you go by?
One country with 2 sets of laws can only eventually lead to chaos IMHO.

Originally posted by General Zapata
thats a pretty blanket statement, considering you know little about islam. Just because you have never seen it work does not mean it won't.

Well seeings i have read the Qu'ran
anyways, how come Islamic states tend to be undemocratic then? hmmm...why are they openly against Democracy?

From the article you quote Infinite I'd say the salient point is "did not contravene British law" which indicates to me that the authors are well aware that these people are asking for nothing at odds with British law.

It will only be a matter of time before they ask for Sharia Law to be used in this country.

One country with 2 sets of laws can only eventually lead to chaos IMHO.

Exactly Madhatter

I also find this idea of the UK set to "explode" desparately far fetched.

Wrong.
75% of British People think there are too many immigrants in this country (i know this have nothing to do with the thread). Also, attacks against muslims are on the rise and Asian attacks against Whites, so i think that sounds the alarms bells dont you? But still the labour government is not going to do anything about it, just make the whole matter worse.

I too do not believe the uk is ready to explode, the far-right have been saying that for decades. I was taught at school, that we the uk are great innovaters, that we can take the best from other nations and use them to improve our own country. Obviously we are not going to implement any non-democratic laws, I dont see any problems with this. The laws they're suggesting would only effect muslims, and would not be non-democratic, but more suited to their religion.

Nothing wrong with that.

Oh and there will not be '2 sets of laws' they want British law to at least cover parts of their religion, I think that's a good thing.

Well, im sorry, but at my place of work, i get paid to do work not pray or take part in religion. If other religious groups can work without the need to take part in their reigion, why can't Muslims do it? Britian is a western democratic country and we do things by UK laws, not Islamic. Just think of the workers who might claim to be "muslims" to go and pray (may sound stupid, but its likely).

Praying at work is a non-issue really, its been going on for years, some companies are more compliant than others (i.e they make special allowances for it), some dont. Some muslims dont pray as much as 'they should', some do.

Im not entirely sure, but I think the times of praying are early morning (7 or 8 am), midday and late afternoon/early evening (around 5 to 6pm), i.e before work, during lunchtime and after work. Nothing that would disrupt their work nor contrevene most companies working hours.

It reminds me of my time at Uni when I worked in a pub, some staff smoked some did not. The smokers would go for a smoke when not very busy. The non-smokers complained saying its not fair they get to go and sit down just because they smoke. It was never sorted out, but then again it wasnt a big deal.

Originally posted by squarepusher
The smokers would go for a smoke when not very busy. The non-smokers complained saying its not fair they get to go and sit down just because they smoke. It was never sorted out, but then again it wasnt a big deal.

May not be a big deal, but this has the potential to become a big deal.
Thats what i am worried about

Very true Infinite, I just think its best not to over-react, they're not asking for less working hours, nor do they want an advantage over non-muslims, just recognition of their faith.

I understand that there are some people who see this as the UK changing into something they dont want, becoming less British, but for me this is progression and part of what makes us great! As an atheist I really dont care for any religions, but I believe our society and laws should reflect all the people and all religons.

After all, how can we consider ourselves a democratic nation, if we dont incorporate all of the public's values?

Originally posted by squarepusher
After all, how can we consider ourselves a democratic nation, if we dont incorporate all of the public's values?

What?!?! most of these muslims are not even born in this country and its not "public values" cause we are only dealing with the muslim community, why shoould they be treated different to me then?