Feminists request use of "jazz hands" rather than clapping to avoid triggering "anxiety" [OP UPD

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
GLBT groups pull crap like this all the time. "I just want to be treated like everyone else so here is a list of special treatment I would like that is specific to my gender or orientation"

What special, unique rights are the gay community trying to procure? Marriage?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
Yea, because this travesty of a thread TOTALLY needs to continue... Let's find more reasons to hate on women with General Anxiety Disorder. YAY! /sarcasm

My Spidey Sense is detecting some gripping and clenching in that statement. I have to wonder if it is because your oft repeated position the Breitbart "invented" the "women-only safe spaces" portion has been proven patently false? I am interested in your current thoughts now that it has been demonstrated that these discriminatory zones are fully the construct of the NUS, themselves, and not a sensationalistic media invention.

This entire thread is BS and Ignorant.

The new lows that even mod's will go to to bash feminism is embarrassing.

a reply to: Gryphon66

This has nothing to do with feminism. Feminism isn't about clapping. It's not about birth control, abortion, hating men or entertainment. It's not about the first female president, placing your job first or refusing to allow a man to "hold you back". Feminism is about empowering women, it always has been. You're not on some team because you're a woman, it's not about gender. We're all apart of the same species and what feminism is being used as is a tool of divide and conquer, much like the whole race thing. It's being used as a witch hunt.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
Yea, because this travesty of a thread TOTALLY needs to continue... Let's find more reasons to hate on women with General Anxiety Disorder. YAY! /sarcasm

My Spidey Sense is detecting some gripping and clenching in that statement. I have to wonder if it is because your oft repeated position the Breitbart "invented" the "women-only safe spaces" portion has been proven patently false? I am interested in your current thoughts now that it has been demonstrated that these discriminatory zones are fully the construct of the NUS, themselves, and not a sensationalistic media invention.

Make a thread on it and I'll tell you. This thread however has to do with women with General Anxiety Disorder making a request to NUS to change the way applause is carried out (that IS after all the point of the article you posted). As those points you are outlining are TALKING POINTS in the meeting and weren't actually implemented in the meeting, I see it as off topic to the discussion at hand.

This thread clearly wasn't intended to discuss the message of the meeting. It was designed to shame feminists for DARING to try to change the way applause is carried out.

originally posted by: InTheLight

You certainly are very selective in your choice of motions, as well as not posting the reasoning behind that particular motion.

Is it possible to point out specific areas you find problematic without being selective?

In a society where the existence of both men and women is unavoidable, no amount of reasoning is going to convince me that it's healthy to encourage fear of men to the point of segregation. I understand the cause of their fear, but to overcome their fear, they have to give themselves a chance to encounter men who aren't complete trash, and they have to confront the idea that all men are inherently violent predators waiting to pounce on them, and they have to defeat it. There is no other way, encounters with men are unavoidable. While there are victims in the world, we should stop encouraging the development of victim complexes.

I'm not willing to concede that I am a violent threat that all women should fear.

a reply to: SearchLightsInc

It's not bashing feminism. It's bashing misandry.

I'm all for feminism. Well, no scratch that. Feminism today is a movement that means to place women ABOVE men. I'm all for HUMANISM. All genders are equal, no exceptions. Anyone who advocates for TRUE equality shouldn't be calling themselves a feminist. That movement has been hijacked by misandrists.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: SearchLightsInc

It's not bashing feminism. It's bashing misandry.

I'm all for feminism. Well, no scratch that. Feminism today is a movement that means to place women ABOVE men. I'm all for HUMANISM. All genders are equal, no exceptions. Anyone who advocates for TRUE equality shouldn't be calling themselves a feminist. That movement has been hijacked by misandrists.

Dude, this meeting of the NUS women has NOTHING to do with feminism, yet the OP makes out like its FEMINISTS that have organised this get together to change the applause as we know it.

Its just a thread looking to bash feminism. Its painfully obvious.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: bastion
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Yes, it's buried in the main article in the lower paragraphs - some (i.e one or two out of tens of thousands) FemSoc members have called for men free zones in NUS meetings, votes and rallies which completely goes against the NUS and general academic view of feminism being about equality.

That is an example of sensationalism. Point to a few crazies within the ranks to try to paint the people requesting help as evil feminists. Classic propaganda technique.

Already the main NUS conference has no-entry zones for men, it wouldn't matter if it was for something unimportant but for something as major and influential as the NUS it's a stupid policy and I say that as someone who co-chaired the FemSoc while at my Uni.

EDIT: I completely agree that the newspaper are taking a sensible policy and turning it into feminist bashing nonsense.

And I'm not trying to say that all feminists are awesome. I recognize that there are feminists who truly want to stand where men stand now in the gender order, but pointing them out to disparage a group of people trying to help hurt women just to push your hard line anti-feminism stance is sneaky and deplorable .

I'm confused, are you talking about myself or the paper as 'hardline anti-feminist' as I'm a hard line feminist who thinks the article is disgusting but I'm still anti the 'male free zones' as it helps no one, especially the sufferer. The NUS should be helping victims and banning all 'lad culture/banter' instead of promoting sexism and reinforcing mental health issues - [I can't really express this very well in just text format so appologies if it makes no sense/seems offensive - it's not merant to be as I had GAD as a student myself and am a disability student support worker at a Uni so have a very keen interest in the subject]

Burdman - The first bold part is right but Liberation in NUS context means LGBTQSoc rather than FemSoc

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
This thread however has to do with women with General Anxiety Disorder making a request to NUS to change the way applause is carried out (that IS after all the point of the article you posted). As those points you are outlining are TALKING POINTS in the meeting and weren't actually implemented in the meeting, I see it as off topic to the discussion at hand.
.

Nice side-step. As the OP, I think I may have a better grasp of what is and is not the topic being discussed than you do, however. The very first point in the OP is about the women-only safe zone. Therefore, it is the topic and creating an additional topic to discuss that would be redundant.

So please, defend your claims (also made here, in this thread, so you obviously considered it on-topic at some point here), because I'm truly intrigued to see what the backup defense is now that "it was invented by the media" has been proven completely false. I am honestly curious to see a retort explaining why this motion doesn't constitute discrimination.

originally posted by: STTesc
a reply to: Gryphon66

This has nothing to do with feminism. Feminism isn't about clapping. It's not about birth control, abortion, hating men or entertainment. It's not about the first female president, placing your job first or refusing to allow a man to "hold you back". Feminism is about empowering women, it always has been. You're not on some team because you're a woman, it's not about gender. We're all apart of the same species and what feminism is being used as is a tool of divide and conquer, much like the whole race thing. It's being used as a witch hunt.

Absolutely, 100% agree! I'd also say there's an element of "outing and shaming" afoot, as well. As seen within this thread, if you disagree with the NUS women, you're hating on women and opposed to feminism... but the NUS Women don't represent "feminism." How does that dichotomy work?

originally posted by: SearchLightsInc

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: SearchLightsInc

It's not bashing feminism. It's bashing misandry.

I'm all for feminism. Well, no scratch that. Feminism today is a movement that means to place women ABOVE men. I'm all for HUMANISM. All genders are equal, no exceptions. Anyone who advocates for TRUE equality shouldn't be calling themselves a feminist. That movement has been hijacked by misandrists.

Dude, this meeting of the NUS women has NOTHING to do with feminism, yet the OP makes out like its FEMINISTS that have organised this get together to change the applause as we know it.

Its just a thread looking to bash feminism. Its painfully obvious.

The thread I think has moved in a differing direction from "Feminists want to change the way you clap" (Which is doubt was the intent of the thread in the first place) and onto the subject of feminism as a whole, I believe. I can see where you would take this thread as a sort of dogwhistle for "FEMINISTS BAD". And frankly I agree. Feminism isn't what it was 30, hell even 10 years ago. I called myself a feminist for a long time until it became associated with manhating misandrists who want to castrate every man ever or put them into camps.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

I don't agree with those talking points as written. I would, however, like to see a transcript of what they meant with those points so I don't jump the gun on anything.

The fact that you think you are still on topic with this article though is silly. That entire point was meant to smear the group in the article for wanting to change the clap. The article is an anti-feminist hit piece. Through and through. All the points in it are laced and worded in such a way to strike the nerves of anti-feminists and you clearly have been suckered into it.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: burdman30ott6

I don't agree with those talking points as written. I would, however, like to see a transcript of what they meant with those points so I don't jump the gun on anything.

You didn't hesitate to jump the gun on Breitbart, so why concern yourself with it now? By all means, feel free to jump it and explain your thoughts regarding the "women only safe zones." I'm sincerely interested to know how your mental model has changed now that "fabricated sensationalism" has been unseated from the excuse list.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: SearchLightsInc

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: SearchLightsInc

It's not bashing feminism. It's bashing misandry.

I'm all for feminism. Well, no scratch that. Feminism today is a movement that means to place women ABOVE men. I'm all for HUMANISM. All genders are equal, no exceptions. Anyone who advocates for TRUE equality shouldn't be calling themselves a feminist. That movement has been hijacked by misandrists.

Dude, this meeting of the NUS women has NOTHING to do with feminism, yet the OP makes out like its FEMINISTS that have organised this get together to change the applause as we know it.

Its just a thread looking to bash feminism. Its painfully obvious.

The thread I think has moved in a differing direction from "Feminists want to change the way you clap" (Which is doubt was the intent of the thread in the first place) and onto the subject of feminism as a whole, I believe. I can see where you would take this thread as a sort of dogwhistle for "FEMINISTS BAD". And frankly I agree. Feminism isn't what it was 30, hell even 10 years ago. I called myself a feminist for a long time until it became associated with manhating misandrists who want to castrate every man ever or put them into camps.

There will always be radicals that will exist in all groups and sections of society - We shouldnt give them air time. Discussing radical feminism is a waste of time, i dont really see it as a threat, its not like they will ever realistically have "men-free zones" ?? Its the equivalent of radical muslims thinking they'll put the whole of the UK under sharia law, just isnt going to happen.

originally posted by: SearchLightsInc

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: SearchLightsInc

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: SearchLightsInc

It's not bashing feminism. It's bashing misandry.

I'm all for feminism. Well, no scratch that. Feminism today is a movement that means to place women ABOVE men. I'm all for HUMANISM. All genders are equal, no exceptions. Anyone who advocates for TRUE equality shouldn't be calling themselves a feminist. That movement has been hijacked by misandrists.

Dude, this meeting of the NUS women has NOTHING to do with feminism, yet the OP makes out like its FEMINISTS that have organised this get together to change the applause as we know it.

Its just a thread looking to bash feminism. Its painfully obvious.

The thread I think has moved in a differing direction from "Feminists want to change the way you clap" (Which is doubt was the intent of the thread in the first place) and onto the subject of feminism as a whole, I believe. I can see where you would take this thread as a sort of dogwhistle for "FEMINISTS BAD". And frankly I agree. Feminism isn't what it was 30, hell even 10 years ago. I called myself a feminist for a long time until it became associated with manhating misandrists who want to castrate every man ever or put them into camps.

There will always be radicals that will exist in all groups and sections of society - We shouldnt give them air time. Discussing radical feminism is a waste of time, i dont really see it as a threat, its not like they will ever realistically have "men-free zones" ?? Its the equivalent of radical muslims thinking they'll put the whole of the UK under sharia law, just isnt going to happen.

That's why NUS women said it will be difficult if not impossible to achieve - "self-defining women-only spaces". However, here is what one participant of another women-only meeting had to say about it:

“We live with a level of fear of expressing ourselves or speaking out, or voicing our real opinions. And consequently we’re looking for a situation where we can put down that fear and express ourselves freely, have some space where it’s okay to say what you really think. It’s not about everybody agreeing or disagreeing or everybody having the same opinion, it’s about being able to listen and share in a way that somehow in mixed company always ends up in a more combative scenario; somebody’s got to be right and somebody’s got to be wrong.” - See more at: www.feministtimes.com...

www.feministtimes.com...

Sound familiar? Combative scenario!

a reply to: InTheLight

Now, as I have requested several times, apply that same logic to any other group, please. Would there ever be an allowable scenario in which a group could say "We need to exclude blacks because we don't want a combative scene" and NOT be drug onto the carpet over it? If yes, then what would that scenario involve? If no, then why is one form of blunt discrimination acceptable while other forms are forbidden?

a reply to: InTheLight
So are you saying males are combative and females are not, which then creates a situation requiring male-free zones for the benefit of females who fear males?
Sounds very similar to any other discrimination I could imagine based solely on group membership compared to individual actions.
I got badly beaten by a load of solely black people in Birmingham (UK) many years ago, would you advocate white only spaces for me in a democratic students union if I requested it because I distrust (and perceive a raised threat level) when around black people wearing hoody's?

originally posted by: STTesc
a reply to: Gryphon66

This has nothing to do with feminism. Feminism isn't about clapping. It's not about birth control, abortion, hating men or entertainment. It's not about the first female president, placing your job first or refusing to allow a man to "hold you back". Feminism is about empowering women, it always has been. You're not on some team because you're a woman, it's not about gender. We're all apart of the same species and what feminism is being used as is a tool of divide and conquer, much like the whole race thing. It's being used as a witch hunt.

So, let's empower women ... so long as they act and behave as your own dictates about what "feminism is and isn't" are followed? You don't get to tell them what they can believe, and you don't get to define their experiences for them.

You're speaking in absolutes. You're an extremist. People don't agree with YOUR definition of Feminism.

/shrug

Next?

a reply to: InTheLight

Interesting read - not had time to digest the full article yet but it seems to say 'men and women can't work together. The end' which is stupid, untrue, patronising for all genders - even if it was true it doesn't change the fact that it's an almost 50:50 split between males and females so sooner or later they're going to have to learn how to hold basic conversation or reach agreements.

Change the word gender to race in the sentence and it's illegal. Voicing real opinions/speaking freely will attract negative attention from all spectrums of society, not just men. The piece just seems like pure sexism that's hijaked the word feminism to make it seem progressive instead of derogatory.