Moscow demands removal of U.S. nuclear missiles

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: noeltrotsky

I don't understand why you can't consider the possibility that Ukrainians themselves actually want the benefits of closer relations with the EU.

You mean become saddled with enormous debt and endless war? The EU is a common currency disaster. The original settlers that left the Euro zone went to America to get away from all that. You think they set sail in leaky boats on a dangerous crossing and fought starvation, wild animals and Natives because they liked it where they were?

Do they not teach history in eastern europe. Why is it every Putin backer is clueless about history. The reason people went to the Amaricas was to escape religous persecutions. Had nothing to do with trying to escape debt or banks. In fact they quickly incorporated a European banking system. So they got in those leaky boats as you put it to escape state sponsored religion. Oddly probably one or the reason Ukraine wanted to get closer to Europe. That way they could distance themselves from the Russian orthodox church.

How do you not know the simplist of history in America!? Europe had ships offshore of America printing US currency to dilute it and try to destabilize the currency. They finally won out when they strangled the U.S. with their debt system in 1913. Religion is just used as a flashpoint to get people to fight and ignore their debt slavery. And it seems to have worked on you too. Wake up to your true owner and your slavery.

a reply to: thepixelpusher

We were talking about 15 and 1600s and you bring up 1913 ?? well judging from the date I assume you have a problem with income taxes. This wasn't the sta r y I'd a debt system so much as a government boon. Since it had really nothing to do with banks.

I just love it when someone is down on banks simple solution do not use credit. And if you do pay it back quickly you only have to participate as much as you want to. In other words don't blame banks if you are broke.

a reply to: thepixelpusher

That video was enhanced with fake shelling sounds

That bit in the beginning was very real…

the whole video was a composite of unrelated snippets. So what?

My point was the Ukrainians aren't one big happy family, marching in lock step to the EU.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: thepixelpusher

That video was enhanced with fake shelling sounds

That bit in the beginning was very real…

the whole video was a composite of unrelated snippets. So what?

My point was the Ukrainians aren't one big happy family, marching in lock step to the EU.

Your right in fact before Russia was involved they wouldn't even have joined the EU. Russia has sort of pushed that on them. All they originally wanted was trade agreements but Russian oppression through gas and forced trade changed that. Can't expect someone who is being taken advantage of not to look for better deals.

And the video has nothing to do with your point it's old video of the cease fire break down. Nothing but propaganda from the west really.

originally posted by: thepixelpusher
The endgame is to provoke the Russians to fight back against the torrent of punches. Then blame them for starting it.

The US is extremely capable when it comes to provoking or setting up false flag operations. If they truly wanted a war with Russia it would be happening already.

originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: thepixelpusher
The endgame is to provoke the Russians to fight back against the torrent of punches. Then blame them for starting it.

The US is extremely capable when it comes to provoking or setting up false flag operations. If they truly wanted a war with Russia it would be happening already.

I agree US wasn't concerned with Russia until Crimea. Had they been they had plenty of opertunity to crush Russia after the Soviet collapse. Instead they did exactly the opisit they gave Russia billions of dollars to rebuild. As we see in hindsight that was a mistake but at the time I guess they thought Russia would become a partner.What happened is Putin saw a weakness and exploited if to aquire territory. As we saw in the document release it was planned a long before it. But they need ed to wait for the right time.

See Russia controlled Ukraine and it's politicians it wad so bad the Ukrainian FSB had Russians working for Russia. They had politicians openly supporting them. What the true problem was Putin decided yanochovich had to Go. Right move do to corruption charges yes Russia could have bailed him out again but in the long run he still would have ot happen again later. Can't be a crook and get caught and expect to stay in office.

originally posted by: intrptr
My point was the Ukrainians aren't one big happy family, marching in lock step to the EU.

No, that is true. However, the recent elections returned results a government with a pro-European outlook. This means, there is a popular mandate to develop closer ties and links with Europe, notably the EU.

a reply to: dragonridr

Your right in fact before Russia was involved they wouldn't even have joined the EU. Russia has sort of pushed that on them.

"Sort of"?

Hardly. The "Eastern" Ukrainians don't want to be "EU", and they don't want to be Russian, either. ETA: They want independence away from being a slave state to either side.

Their referendum to secede was a result of what happened in Kiev, not Moscow.

What happened in Kiev was a direct result of western meddling, i.e., EU, US, (NATO) interference in Ukraine's internal affairs.

a reply to: paraphi

However, the recent elections returned results a government with a pro-European outlook. This means, there is a popular mandate to develop closer ties and links with Europe, notably the EU.

Now the Ukrainian government is legit, huh? After a coup and all with the Junta in Kiev supporting the west like the good puppets they are with their snouts in the money trough, you think I would believe for one minute the "results" of any voting? They voted their way into power with mountains of burning tires…

lulz.

I quite readily believed in the struggle for freedom occurring all over the world. Struggle to escape Western Hegemony is ongoing… (ETA) wider in scope and farther reaching than just the one little flare in Ukraine. Despite the claims of Union from the west, an Empire that is in its death throes.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: dragonridr

Your right in fact before Russia was involved they wouldn't even have joined the EU. Russia has sort of pushed that on them.

"Sort of"?

Hardly. The "Eastern" Ukrainians don't want to be "EU", and they don't want to be Russian, either. ETA: They want independence away from being a slave state to either side.

Their referendum to secede was a result of what happened in Kiev, not Moscow.

What happened in Kiev was a direct result of western meddling, i.e., EU, US, (NATO) interference in Ukraine's internal affairs.

Wrong love the meddling part your funny. Any way the reason the east is having a problem is a direct result of Russian propaganda they convinced them Ukraine was taken by Nazis. Had nothing to do with the EU. Victor had huge support in this region and they wrongly believe he was kicked out by fascists in Kiev. Again this is because russian media like RT not giving them the real facts and convincing them they are going to kill them the moment they get a chance.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: paraphi

However, the recent elections returned results a government with a pro-European outlook. This means, there is a popular mandate to develop closer ties and links with Europe, notably the EU.

Now the Ukrainian government is legit, huh? After a coup and all with the Junta in Kiev supporting the west like the good puppets they are with their snouts in the money trough, you think I would believe for one minute the "results" of any voting? They voted their way into power with mountains of burning tires…

lulz.

I quite readily believed in the struggle for freedom occurring all over the world. Struggle to escape Western Hegemony is ongoing… despite cheer leading posts like yours.

Their was no coup their president was stealing money to avoid prosecution he packed up a plane in the middle of the night and fled to Russia. He stole billions from Ukraine But Before They could arrest him he stole more actually took the time to load a cargo plane amazes me.

a reply to: dragonridr

Any way the reason the east is having a problem is a direct result of Russian propaganda they convinced them Ukraine was taken by Nazis.

They were.

Well… Nazi like, anyway. The Nazis failed, too.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: dragonridr

Any way the reason the east is having a problem is a direct result of Russian propaganda they convinced them Ukraine was taken by Nazis.

They were.

Well… Nazi like, anyway. The Nazis failed, too.

Problem is the Nazis are leading the revolt in Easter Ukraine sent their by Putin. You know people like strelkov are favorite fascist. The right in Kiev is dead we see that in the last election they got no support. But the east is entirely diffrent situation.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: yeahsurexxx
a reply to: Xcathdra

Putin is a sane little kitty compared to the US.

Why would Russia be insane to use the aggressors tactics agains the aggressors?

You mean nuclear weapons right? that is what we are talking about. Russia threatening nations with nukes while demanding the US remove ours from Europe. Ironic that Russia thinks it can dictate to all of Europe.

Its yet another example of how out of touch Putin is and how dangerous he is becoming.

I, as a European don't mind this.
I don't want the US world police around here.
I'm sick of NATO/USA/EU bs, and a lot more ppl here are too.
Ironic that EU/USA thinks they can dictate to Russia...but not the other way.
The nukes are there for it's close to Russia. That's why Putin want's them gone.
Is this really so hard to understand? They are a threat. That's it.

Go Home.

a reply to: yeahsurexxx

I would love to bring all US personnel home..

however we tried to remain neutral during WWI and WWII and found out that Europeans think appeasement works and ignores the dangers until that danger is rolling across your borders.

if its all the same if the US is going to be dragged into another European war because Europeans cant find their spinal cord until its to late I would rather be there prepared than go through another mess like WWII.

If Putin wants to change your alphabet to Cyrillic and deny you basic rights and you willingly accept it then that's on you and you made your own bed.

As for not liking NATO I challenge you to demonstrate why you don't like NATO using specific examples. Secondly if NATO is hated that much then why have Europeans not elected officials who share the same view point and withdraw from NATO? Before you or someone else gives me a BS excuse that it cannot be done I refer you to France and 1963 when they withdrew from NATO.

Considering you are from Sweden and not a part of NATO I don't really understand your premise. You are bitching about something that does not affect you. Secondly your country is looking at closer ties with NATO in addition to discussing joining NATO so your comment about people not wanting NATO is a bit off yes?

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: dragonridr

Any way the reason the east is having a problem is a direct result of Russian propaganda they convinced them Ukraine was taken by Nazis.

They were.

Well… Nazi like, anyway. The Nazis failed, too.

Ironic that is Russia that hosted the meeting of Europes far right. Of course it is hard to find a nation more hard right than Russia.

..........

a reply to: Xcathdra

I don't think you can compare the time when the two World war took place and the current age. A lot of things are different. For one, it is the US who's interfering into other country internal business. Other countries have done that as well, but the US is a leader in that field. And i do not think you can deny this fact.

And as for what's Putin apparently trying to do, all i can say is that you are becoming more and more paranoid. Besides defending Russians living in Crimea and talking big about what might happen if the west goes over the line, i think he's a pretty logical president.

I can tell you why i dislike NATO. It's a terrorist organization that had killed thousands of innocent civilians in order to gain control over the country that stood up to them. Is there even a need to give specific examples? Syria, Libya, Serbia...

a reply to: Nikola014

Actually you can compare them...

We see Russia invading Ukraine and Europe twiddling its thumbs while arguing not over the invasion but economics. In case you missed it Europe has taken the lead on Ukraine and not the US. Just as in WWI and WWII and yet we still got dragged in because Europe thought appeasement would work.

it didn't work then and wont work now.

As for paranoid - no. Putin on the other hand is beyond paranoid. Dreaming up enemies all around him while he systematically imprisons the Russian people. While Russians continue to pay a high price for putins stupidity Putin has no issues with getting food and paying his bills. I wonder why...

Russians living in Ukrainian Crimea can either adapt or move back to Russia. When the autonomous Republic of Tatarstan want to become independent of Russia do you think putin will go for it? if we look at Chechnya and Dagestan my guess would be no, Russia wont allow it. right now its an east lie for putin to use to justify his invasion, which by the way was not to protect Russians but to exploit the downfall of Yanukovych. Something putin recently claimed.

So I ask you what was Russias reason for invading Ukraine?

NATO is a defensive alliance and has a LOONNGGG way to go to catch up with USSR / Russia's history on killing innocent people.

a reply to: Xcathdra

The part I don't get is Putin has no end game here. I thought originally Putin would eventually negotiate a deal when this started. Now he's hit the point that's no longer an option. Because he stirred up the right wing to the point they are threatening him. He can't pull out his troops because he will look weak and he can't afford to keep spending money for the troops. He knows the sanctions have severely hurt Russia so much that even Russian economists are saying that at best they will have a decade of a recession. Meaning more likely they will go into a full blown depression and peiple will starve.

And his vilified the west so he's effectively cut off the one group that could have pulled Russia from the brink. When this started I thought he had a plan now I see he doeant. And as far as what's motivating him it's not Russia or money because as we know he's stole alot of it. So the only thing left is pride. As I advised my grandmother she should consider leaving before it gets really bad.