Gaza, an open air prison.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

the Zionists are in essence no different from the Canaanites destroyed by the ancient Hebrews

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

I don't need to hear that from Gazans

You wont, thats for sure.

Your armchair is your friend on this one!

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: Zcustosmorum

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: Zcustosmorum
There seems to be unecessary confusion on this thread, besieging a city is a war crime and a breach of human rights in accordance with the Geneva Convention, end of argument

Well then ,I guess considering Israel is surrounded by muslim countries and Palestine Lobs rockets into Israel they could be considered under siege as well......

You cant have it both ways

Clearly you don't understand the meaning of the word ''siege''.

clearly youre applying a double standard based on your bias

I didn't write the first dictionary:

Siege

A siege is a military blockade of a city or fortress with the intent of conquering by attrition or assault. The term derives from sedere, Latin for "to sit".[1] Siege warfare is a form of constant, low-intensity conflict characterized by one party holding a strong, static defensive position.

I'm always biast against the aggressors in a conflict and if you seriously believe the Israeli army, which is professionally trained and equipped, is matched by Hamas, then you're clearly in cloud cuckoo-land.

In case you missed it the first time:

International Law

International humanitarian law prohibits [an] occupying power [from transferring] citizens from its own territory to the occupied territory (Fourth Geneva Convention, article 49). The Hague Regulations prohibit the occupying power [from undertaking] permanent changes in the occupied area, unless these are due to military needs in the narrow sense of the term, or unless they are undertaken for the benefit of the local population.

The establishment of the settlements leads to the violation of the rights of the Palestinians as enshrined in international human rights law. Among other violations, the settlements infringe on the rights to self-determination, equality, property, an adequate standard of living, and freedom of movement.

ifamericansknew.org...

originally posted by: combatmaster
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

I don't need to hear that from Gazans

You wont, thats for sure.

Your armchair is your friend on this one!

lol, in charllie's defense he's not posting from a golden "throne"
[dont forget to wash your hands]

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
Can people not accept a difference of opinion about Israeli atrocities without calling people Jew Haters???

Disgusting propagandists!

Good point CharlieSpeirs.
I wonder if one mod could give a clear statement why it is OK for poster on ATS to link any form of criticism of Israel to anti-semitism. I do not offuscate but if it's OK, then it would be right to consider the use of the 'nazi' word as OK too for describing the defense of certain ideologies.
I'm not sure this will improve the quality of the debate.

Separating anti-Semitism from anti-Zionism

a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke

In reference to Charlie's question and your response it is well known that groups hostile to the Jews in the middle east have a clear race based issue with the Jews. Its not a political problem regardless of anti-Zionist only flow that goes around and that should be easy to see through.

a reply to: Logarock

If they happen to have a race issue ... isn't that because Jews define themselves as a race ?
If they happen to have a religious issues ... isn't that because the racial concept is enforced by religious dogmas ?
If they happen to have a political issue ... isn't that because there is not distinction between religion and state in Israel ?

That's for sure something the mods can't go against. But they can allow or prevent any form of incidious propanganda that support this disinformation. Consider that the article I linked was penned by a Jewish journalist.
Because there is another form of hypocritical immunity in place ATM : don't dare to criticize Jews or Israel if you are a Goy.

a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke

Most everyone over there doing the pushing does it from a race/tribe identity perspective. Most of this other stuff is simply ancillary. Like the radical Islam tone of Hezbollah is simply part of the hem haw. The Jews on the other hand are very strait forward and are clearly making a statement in the context of their historical relationship with the area. Always keep in mind that the Jewish diaspora was facilitated by the ancestors of several surrounding nations who after over 2000 years can still manage to get bent out of shape about the Jews coming back and reestablishing themselves as a nation.

originally posted by: voyger2
the cage where about 2 million people live

Cage? Could you be any more melodramatic. This reads like wartime propaganda.

originally posted by: voyger2
Gives us an insight by a Palestinian pacifist since he was born in an occupied land.

I find that surprising. Palestinian pacifists tend to be executed by Hamas.

a reply to: SteveR

That's your opinion. The most important thing is: Everyone can judge by themselves.

a reply to: voyger2

It's not an opinion.

www.israeltoday.co.il...

If you don't trust the source due to your antisemitic bias, you can watch the executions on youtube, sickening as it is.

Those Egyptians... I can't believe what they're doing to the Palestinians. If only Egypt would open their border to Gaza, much needed medical supplies, building material, fuel, and rockets can be obsconded with by Hamas for Hamas. There's tunnels to build and the workers need their food.


It seems only fair to share the blame right? I mean... Israel isn't the only one with a closed border.

a reply to: hellobruce

first: Israel is the birth place of terrorism in the middle east:

From 1945 onwards, the Jewish resistance to the enforcement of the White Paper was accompanied by increasing acts of violence, culminating in 1946-1947 in the underground activities of the Irgun Zvai Leumi and the so-called Stern Group.

Since the July 1946 attack by terrorists on the headquarters of the Administration Secretariat in the King David Hotel, Jerusalem, representatives of the Jewish Agency and the Vaad Leumi have from time to time condemned terrorist activities, and there have been some signs of active opposition to such methods on the part of the Haganah.

By June 1946, however, the breach had widened so far that the Administration found it necessary to arrest and detain on grounds of public security some 2,600 Jews, including four members of the Jewish Agency Executive.

source

Zionism, however, does not content itself with mere propaganda in favor of the fulfillment of its expansionist projects at the expense of the Arab countries. Its plan involves recourse to terrorism, both in Palestine and in other countries.

It is known that a secret army has been formed with a view to creating an atmosphere of tension and unrest by making attempts on the lives of representatives of the governing authority and by destroying public buildings

The responsibility for the disturbances which might result therefrom throughout the Middle East will rest solely with the Zionist organizations, as having been the first to use these violent tactics.

source

second: Israel is illegally occupying land that doesn't belong to them (international law);

third: Israel imprisons Palestinians in their own territory violating international law and the Human Rights Declaration;

fourth: Israel controls water, food (starves them), medication, electricity and all the commodity need by Palestinians to live;

fifth: Israel harasses and destroys international and local infrastructures (collective punishment, which includes what was stated above);

sixth: Israel bombs and kills civilians (War crimes) indiscriminately;

seventh: Hamas or any other Palestinian armed group, by the Jus Cogens principle's (right of self defense included) haves every right to resort to any means necessary to free themselves from occupation, collective punishment and imprisonment, death or any attempt of Genocide. Making of Hamas or any Palestinian armed group a resistance movement or freedom fighter, not terrorists.

eighth: Israel must return to the borders' defined by the Plan of Partition with Economic Union of Palestine were it defined the «Independent Arab and Jewish States and the Special International Regime for the City of Jerusalem» that is being violated by Israelis ever since, with the full support of the United States.

nine: We all know that the peace process is a farce and that the World is no longer bound to defend Israel Internationally

originally posted by: EternalSolace
It seems only fair to share the blame right? I mean... Israel isn't the only one with a closed border.

But the Egyptians are not Jews, so apparently it is fine for them to close the borders to the Hamas terrorists!

originally posted by: voyger2
second: Israel is ]illegally occupying land that doesn't belong to them (international law);

Except that Israel is not occupying Gaza, but of course you ignore that!

Israel controls water, food, medication, electricity and all the commodity need by Palestinians to live

That is because instead of Hamas building infrastructure, planting food etc for the Palestinian's they prefer to build tunnels to attack Israel with, and smuggle in rockets, arms and explosives to attack Israel. But you ignore that!

Israel bombs and kills civilians

Funny how you ignore the Hamas terrorists using human shields, transporting troops in ambulances, firing rockets from schools and hospitals at Israel.

Hamas or any other Palestinian armed group, by the right of self defense

Funny how you get upset when the Jews defend themselves by attacking Hamas military targets (while Hamas is using human shields..)

Israel must return to the borders' defined by the Plan of Partition with Economic Union of Palestine

Funny how you ignore the fact this is about Gaza, which has no Israeli settlements etc....

We all know that the peace process is a farce

That is because Hamas have in their charter that Israel will be destroyed - but you ignore that!

So all you want to do is blame Israel for everything, and put no blame on the Hamas terrorists!

a reply to: SteveR
first: I was referring to the cage perspective;

second: I don't trust any Israel propaganda when it comes describing whats happening in Gaza. For what I know, Israel could very well be (or have been) behind Hamas, supporting them with weapons, or even infiltrating in Gaza with other secret groups (and we can assume, that maybe, some tunnels could be excavated by Israel groups or with Israel consent/support, for infiltrating purposes or/and even retaliation excuses)

third: I'm not bias and I absolutely refuse your common rhetoric of antisemitic when anyone disagrees with statuos quo inflicted on Palestinians

Fourth: After Netanyahu officially said, there ain't going to be any Palestinian state, the mask of Israel fell off and now we all know, this has been a farce all this year's. With that said, anything that comes out of Israel officials is not trust worthy like it has been proved.

originally posted by: voyger2
I don't trust any Israel propaganda when it comes describing whats happening in Gaza

Yet you trust Hamas propaganda....

For what I know, Israel could very well be (or have been) behind Hamas, supporting them with weapons, or even infiltrating in Gaza with other secret groups (and we can assume, that maybe, some tunnels could be excavated by Israel groups or with Israel consent/support, for infiltrating purposes or/and even retaliation excuses)

Typical silly conspiracy theory nonsense, not based on anything but hatred.

After Netanyahu officially said, there ain't going to be any Palestinian state,

Except he never actually said that.... you also totally ignore Hamas have said (it is even in their charter) that Israel must be destroyed....

www.breitbart.com...

hotair.com...

What he said to Andrea Mitchell in his first post-election U.S. interview today: “I don’t want a one-state solution. I want a sustainable, peaceful two-state solution,” Netanyahu said Thursday in an interview with MSNBC’s Andrea Mitchell. “I haven’t changed my policy.”… “I’m talking about what is achievable and what is not achievable,” Netanyahu said Thursday, insisting that he would support a demilitarized Palestinian state under a plan that would ensure Israel’s security.

anything that comes out of Israel officials is not trust worthy like it has been proved.

So you only believe what the Hamas terrorists say....

originally posted by: hellobruce
Except that Israel is not occupying Gaza, but of course you ignore that!

Of course not! They are occupying Palestine and specially the legitimate part defined by the Plan of Partition with Economic Union of Palestine were it defined the «Independent Arab and Jewish States and the Special International Regime for the City of Jerusalem» that is being violated by Israelis ever since:
[IMAGE REMOVED]

originally posted by: hellobruce
That is because instead of Hamas building infrastructure, planting food etc for the Palestinian's they prefer to build tunnels to attack Israel with, and smuggle in rockets, arms and explosives to attack Israel. But you ignore that!

No sir. That's because they are imprison in a open air cage, in their own land and want to free them selves of the oppressors. They have the right to use every means necessary to reclaim their liberty, dignity and freedom has a People.

originally posted by: hellobruce
Funny how you ignore the Hamas terrorists using human shields, transporting troops in ambulances, firing rockets from schools and hospitals at Israel.

Don't have any illusion. There is no human shields there, every Palestinian is target for Israel. Until there is a ground investigation by UN delegates no one his sure about who shot what and from where. But, the investigations didn't happen because of Israel opposition and denial. At this point, we all know Israel lies and doesn't want a peace process for a two state solution.

Their his always excuses for Israel to punish and attack Palestinians.

And last, it applies what I have said above. They have the right to use every means necessary to free them selves from occupation and slow genocide.

originally posted by: hellobruce
Funny how you get upset when the Jews defend themselves by attacking Hamas military targets (while Hamas is using human shields..)

I'm not upset. Israel attacked everyone in Gaza, there were no human shields. Even shelters of the UN were targets in this last summer assault to Gaza.

originally posted by: hellobruce
Funny how you ignore the fact this is about Gaza, which has no Israeli settlements etc....

You are going around in circles...

originally posted by: hellobruce
That is because Hamas have in their charter that Israel will be destroyed - but you ignore that!
So all you want to do is blame Israel for everything, and put no blame on the Hamas terrorists!

That's the usual BS from your leaders that is going on since ever to inflict fear and victimize yourselves (i.e, jews)

a reply to: hellobruce

What Hamas propaganda!?

Netanyahu Says No to Statehood for Palestinians

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel on Monday doubled down on his appeal to right-wing voters, declaring definitively that if he was returned to office he would never establish a Palestinian state.

About the destruction of Israel that is the usual BS from liars and fear-mongers that go around victimizing them selves all this years, if not, using the anti-Semitic card to everyone who sees it differently.

originally posted by: voyger2
About the destruction of Israel that is the usual BS from liars and fear-mongers

You refuse to accept reality, why do you ignore this?

Israel will rise and will remain erect until Islam eliminates it

www.thejerusalemfund.org...