WSJ: Israel Spied on Iran Nuclear Talks With U.S.

originally posted by: buster2010
a reply to: Willtell

IF this Obama challenging Israel is a legitimate reality, and not some secret political scam of some sort, then this is the best thing Obama has done as president! And one of the best things done by any president in decades

You remember what happened to the last President that stood up to Israel? He went for a ride in Dallas and never came back.

Ohhhh...we can only hope.

I'll try it this way. I don't trust a thing our government does (in general). They are liars, cheats and out for themselves...both sides of it. What is at stake? My freedoms, income, privacy, etc. But not so significantly that I do much about it.

What does our ALLY Israel have at stake? Terrorism, destruction, death and the end of their existence. Just ask Iran if that isn't the goal. Ask Hamas and all the other groups out there. I would spy too! Why in Hell would I let some bunch of liars and selfish asses discuss and/or determine MY EXISTENCE without getting involved?

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: tothetenthpower

That's besides the point. Congress would vote on the agreement after it was completed, just like ANY OTHER treaty that's being negotiated by the State Department. That's not bypassing congress, they aren't part of these portions of the negotiations.

And Historically so as well, so why bitch about it?

because in this case Obama and Kerry both have stated that this type of agreement needs no Congressional approval. They are ignoring the fact sanctions are in place, which Congress and only Congress can remove. The deal is calling for sanctions to be removed before Iran agrees to the rest of the treaty. Secondly those Presidents have not kept Congress in the dark.

Maybe I missed it but where has Obama asked Congress to remove the sanctions?
When has the Obama administration filled in the relevant congressional committees?

When the agreement restores trade Congress is very much required to be involved. Ignoring that fact doesn't change anything.

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
That's shop talk and you know it. Iran has actually been quite good at keeping up the negotiations and not acting like children this time around.

Then feel free to tell the IAEA your thoughts being they just stated they cant verify Iranian compliance because on 12 outstanding issues dealing with nuclear weapons, Iran has only agreed to address 1 issue. Iran has been caught buying items that can only be used in nuclear weapons development. If they are developing a bomb then why do they need those items? why does Iran need software for testing yield explosions?

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
Both Congress & Israel are GUILTY of disrupting the state department and potentially ruining an international peace treaty. All because they want to prove whose got the bigger stick.

Israel is a sovereign nation and can behave in any matter it sees fit for its own national security. Congress has the right and authority to seek answers when those answers are being withheld by the President.


It has nothing to do with a bigger stick and everything to do with ensuring Obama doesn't sell out the US and Israel in an effort to legacy build. Obama has no clue what he is doing and it has shown with failure after failure and scandal after scandal.

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
Again Nothing. Virtually ALL other treaties are handled in the EXACT SAME WAY. Nothing is revealed until or unless congress is required in order to approve portions of the agreement.

No they are not when sanctions are present.

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
So again tell me, what has Obama done that countless other Presidents and Administrations have not, that warrants this kind of reckless behavior by Congress and Israel?

~Tenth

They have not created treaties with nations who were still under sanctions (US AND UN might I add) and those Presidents have not gone out of their way to ignore congress, their oversight and their authority when it comes to sanctions and who can lawfully remove them.

So again, please tell me why Obama is behaving in a manner that violates the Constitution while trying to keep Congress, and ALL congress, in the dark on this issue? Why have they taken steps to classify the terms of the deal with Iran in an effort to restrict who sees it? Has it occurred to you that the classification application is designed to prevent the test from being released and allows the President to go after those who release info on it.

what part of separation of powers and check and balances are you not understanding?


What is Obama hiding and why?

OH NOES OBAMA WANTS TO DESTROY ISRAEL! WHY CAN'T WE ALL SEE IT? WHY! IT'S A CUNSHPIRASHY I SAY!



Jeez, paranoid much? You can't prove Iran has or even wants a nuclear weapon, either. Good luck with your tinfoil Iranian conspiracy theories, looneybin. Get that paranoid schizophrenia checked out, before you hurt yourself.

a reply to: Blackmarketeer

Everyone spies on it's enemies. And that's the worrying part, if Israel can't trust the U.S. and resorts to spying, are we truly allies?

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE


Yea and now Iran is basically saying anyone against the deal is a "warmonger". Talk about full of it.

originally posted by: yourignoranceisbliss

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: tothetenthpower

That's besides the point. Congress would vote on the agreement after it was completed, just like ANY OTHER treaty that's being negotiated by the State Department. That's not bypassing congress, they aren't part of these portions of the negotiations.

And Historically so as well, so why bitch about it?

because in this case Obama and Kerry both have stated that this type of agreement needs no Congressional approval. They are ignoring the fact sanctions are in place, which Congress and only Congress can remove. The deal is calling for sanctions to be removed before Iran agrees to the rest of the treaty. Secondly those Presidents have not kept Congress in the dark.

Maybe I missed it but where has Obama asked Congress to remove the sanctions?
When has the Obama administration filled in the relevant congressional committees?

When the agreement restores trade Congress is very much required to be involved. Ignoring that fact doesn't change anything.

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
That's shop talk and you know it. Iran has actually been quite good at keeping up the negotiations and not acting like children this time around.

Then feel free to tell the IAEA your thoughts being they just stated they cant verify Iranian compliance because on 12 outstanding issues dealing with nuclear weapons, Iran has only agreed to address 1 issue. Iran has been caught buying items that can only be used in nuclear weapons development. If they are developing a bomb then why do they need those items? why does Iran need software for testing yield explosions?

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
Both Congress & Israel are GUILTY of disrupting the state department and potentially ruining an international peace treaty. All because they want to prove whose got the bigger stick.

Israel is a sovereign nation and can behave in any matter it sees fit for its own national security. Congress has the right and authority to seek answers when those answers are being withheld by the President.


It has nothing to do with a bigger stick and everything to do with ensuring Obama doesn't sell out the US and Israel in an effort to legacy build. Obama has no clue what he is doing and it has shown with failure after failure and scandal after scandal.

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
Again Nothing. Virtually ALL other treaties are handled in the EXACT SAME WAY. Nothing is revealed until or unless congress is required in order to approve portions of the agreement.

No they are not when sanctions are present.

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
So again tell me, what has Obama done that countless other Presidents and Administrations have not, that warrants this kind of reckless behavior by Congress and Israel?

~Tenth

They have not created treaties with nations who were still under sanctions (US AND UN might I add) and those Presidents have not gone out of their way to ignore congress, their oversight and their authority when it comes to sanctions and who can lawfully remove them.

So again, please tell me why Obama is behaving in a manner that violates the Constitution while trying to keep Congress, and ALL congress, in the dark on this issue? Why have they taken steps to classify the terms of the deal with Iran in an effort to restrict who sees it? Has it occurred to you that the classification application is designed to prevent the test from being released and allows the President to go after those who release info on it.

what part of separation of powers and check and balances are you not understanding?


What is Obama hiding and why?

OH NOES OBAMA WANTS TO DESTROY ISRAEL! WHY CAN'T WE ALL SEE IT? WHY! IT'S A CUNSHPIRASHY I SAY!

Jeez, paranoid much? You can't prove Iran has or even wants a nuclear weapon, either. Good luck with your tinfoil Iranian conspiracy theories, looneybin. Get that paranoid schizophrenia checked out, before you hurt yourself.

Giving Iran nuke capacity would be like giving North Korea the same deal if they didn't already have nukes. What would South Korea think?

If Iran could and would get help from elsewhere then let them.