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WSJ: Israel Spied on Iran Nuclear Talks With U.S.

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posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 12:47 PM
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originally posted by: BlueJacket
Right...and wheres the disgust that our government spys on us and everyone else in the enrire world all the time.

you folks make me laugh getting up in arms about Isreal spying, Im no fan of their tactics, but give me a freaking break.


Do two wrongs make a right?

My post does not excuse US spying in the least. However, this case of Israeli spying was done to sabotage a delicate nuclear deal with a historically hostile enemy state.




posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 12:58 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra


because in this case Obama and Kerry both have stated that this type of agreement needs no Congressional approval. They are ignoring the fact sanctions are in place, which Congress and only Congress can remove. The deal is calling for sanctions to be removed before Iran agrees to the rest of the treaty. Secondly those Presidents have not kept Congress in the dark.


And the agreement in itself does not, a provision of the final agreement does. This is why there's been nothing put forth towards congress. Yes, in the past, the state department has kept congress out of the loop until a final agreement is drafted and ready for approval.


Maybe I missed it but where has Obama asked Congress to remove the sanctions?


Not required until the agreement is actually reached.


Then feel free to tell the IAEA your thoughts being they just stated they cant verify Iranian compliance because on 12 outstanding issues dealing with nuclear weapons, Iran has only agreed to address 1 issue. Iran has been caught buying items that can only be used in nuclear weapons development. If they are developing a bomb then why do they need those items? why does Iran need software for testing yield explosions?


I was unaware of any of those things, I'd like to read about it actually. Although I don't think it would be untrue.


No they are not when sanctions are present.


Can you provide a source that shows other treaties will sanctions were handled exclusively by congressional approval, during negotiations?

I'd love to be proven wrong here, I don't like Obama or his admin, nor the state department.

~Tenth



posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 01:10 PM
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reply to: Blackmarketeer
Of course not.

again I dont normally defend Isreal however given that everyone is spying on everyone, I dont feel the over blown surprise at Israel spying is in scale.

Furthermore, love them or hate them ...considering Israel s relationship with the present admin being such that it is, it seems logical that they would want the skinny on everything that is said unfiltered.

Again, Im not an Israel defender, but the false shock about one country spying on another is frankly humorous.

I wonder why we are allies with a country that stole nuke secrets from us in the 1st place.



posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 01:10 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra



and yet the land Israel occupies was taken when Arab nations invaded Israel.

Absolutely false. The Hebrews lost that land in the war with the Romans.


Considering Obama's track record I don't blame Israel for spying on the negotiations. After all they have an interest in the outcome and will be the ones forced to live with any agreement Obama makes. Since Obama is bound and determined to bypass Congress on the agreement it makes one wonder what exactly Obama is giving away he doesn't want others to see.

Obama isn't bypassing Congress because Congress isn't needed for this agreement. This isn't a America Iran deal only this is a UN deal so it would just be an Executive agreement and Congress isn't needed for an Executive agreement.


Israel is not the only nation condemning this action with the US and Iran so I am a bit curious as to why they are the focus.

Because Israel is the nation that is screaming the loudest over this deal. Israel has been trying for decades to get America to attack Iran over Iran's imagined Nuclear weapons program so why wouldn't they be the focus.



posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 01:17 PM
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a reply to: infolurker



Seriously, wake up and understand that you fight the people trying to kill you and not give them more time to go get bigger weapons to kill you with.

How is Iran trying to kill Americans? When did Iran attack America?


The deal an only deal worth talking about is the development of their Natural Gas resources which will power their country for a 1000 years in exchange for dismantling all nuclear technology.

Iran has every right to develop nuclear energy after all they did sign the NPT something Israel didn't do. America though the use of oil, natural gas and alternative energies can supply all the energy we need so why don't we dismantle our nuclear plants?



posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 01:22 PM
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a reply to: buster2010

Absolutely true.

Israel came into possession of the Golan Heights, Gaza, The Sinai and land bordering Lebanon. All Captured by Israel when Arab nations invaded.



posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 01:23 PM
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a reply to: BlueJacket



I wonder why we are allies with a country that stole nuke secrets from us in the 1st place.

Because they buy our politicians. Also they use the holocaust and religion to get Americans to support Israel even when it is detrimental to America.

Israel used the info they received through this spying to directly undermine our negotiations with another nation. This is something that should end all support for Israel.



posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 01:26 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: buster2010

Absolutely true.

Israel came into possession of the Golan Heights, Gaza, The Sinai and land bordering Lebanon. All Captured by Israel when Arab nations invaded.


No you are wrong on that. Those lands came under Israel's control in 67 in a war that Israel started when they bombed the Egyptian airfields. You cannot attack another nation then cry they started the war when they never attacked you.



posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 01:44 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra




Israel is a sovereign nation and can behave in any matter it sees fit for its own national security


This only works for other countries, when it comes to progressives, Israel seems to be exempt from this rule of thumb...

Now talk about Russia, NK , Iran, or any other Arab country committing atrocities and magically the line is always "its their country and their laws not ours"

Funny the double standard, even when speaking out of both sides of their mouth about Irans rights, yet Israel deserves none...

The worst part is they either dont see their own hypocrisy , dont care, or just pretend it doesnt exist



posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 01:45 PM
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originally posted by: tothetenthpower
And the agreement in itself does not, a provision of the final agreement does. This is why there's been nothing put forth towards congress. Yes, in the past, the state department has kept congress out of the loop until a final agreement is drafted and ready for approval.


Not required until the agreement is actually reached.


I think you missed an important part of what I was talking about and what the President and John Kerry stated -
Kerry: Congress Has No Role in Approving Iran Nuclear Deal


(CNSNews.com) – Secretary of State John Kerry on Wednesday declined to “get into” what negotiators are proposing to the Iranians in the nuclear talks, and defended the president’s authority to execute foreign policy, saying he did not believe a negotiated agreement should go through a “formal approval process” by Congress.

“I don’t think there ought to be a formal approval process,” he told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, adding that the administration was consulting with Congress and that lawmakers would ultimately have to vote on lifting sanctions on Iran.


So, again, I ask what they are trying to hide by sidelining Congress on what the agreement entails. They are stating Congress has no role in authorizing this deal. All they stated was congress can remove the sanctions but aside from that, they can hold hearing but have no ability to approving the agreement.

They are trying t say this is an executive agreement when in reality its anything but.



originally posted by: tothetenthpower
I was unaware of any of those things, I'd like to read about it actually. Although I don't think it would be untrue.

* - What Iran Won’t Say About the Bomb
* - Analysis: Twelve Questions Iran Refuses To Answer About Its Nuclear Weapons Research



originally posted by: tothetenthpower
Can you provide a source that shows other treaties will sanctions were handled exclusively by congressional approval, during negotiations?

Sanctions, by law / Constitution, are required to be handled by Congress. To my knowledge there has never been an agreement with the government of another country where sanctions were in place and where the president refused to include congress in dealing with the treaty / agreement.

The closest I can think of was during the height of the Cold War with Regan. He and the USSR signed treaties dealing with nuclear weapons while there were sanctions in place against the USSR. Again, Congress was included and an official agreement was ratified by Congress.

Back to Iran we have this -
Iran's supreme leader just showed how poorly nuclear negotiations are going


On March 21st, the semi-official Twitter account of Iranian Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei sent the following tweet: "We reject US fraudulent offer of reaching a deal w #Iran first then lifting sanctions. Lifting sanctions is a part of deal not its outcome."


he is demanding the removal of sanctions before an agreement is reached. Question - If sanctions are lifted what happens if Iran doesn't agree, or decides to drag out negotiations?

I don't know about you but if I were a member of Congress I would want to see what we are agreeing to before voting to remove / lift / reduce sanctions.

Speaking of political ramifications - With the Congress controlled by Republicans do you not think, should sanctions be lifted and an agreement with Iran falls through, that it wont be used in elections by Democrats? I hate this side of politics but its present and its a valid concern. Obama is placing republicans into the position of having to trust him blindly and if we look at history we have seen how Obama's promises have gone in reality. When it goes ok he is fine with claiming credit but when it does not go ok someone else is always to blame.




originally posted by: tothetenthpower
I'd love to be proven wrong here, I don't like Obama or his admin, nor the state department.

~Tenth


that makes 2 of us.
edit on 24-3-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-3-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 01:50 PM
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a reply to: buster2010

and if you look at the details of that specific conflict you will see the USSR was behind it, manipulating the circumstances in order to force a war in order to get involved.

They kept whispering in the ears of several countries about an imminent attack.

Secondly you are ignoring the actions of Egypt and Syria during the Yom Kippur war, which occurred in 1973. Egypt and Syria led a coalition of Arab nations an attacked Israel.



posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 01:52 PM
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SInce israel was reestablished, the US has been in at least 22 warring conflicts. Our "ally" israel has fought at our side in ZERO of them.

The people who support israel are people who believe in talking snakes.



posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 01:54 PM
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originally posted by: msallo
SInce israel was reestablished, the US has been in at least 22 warring conflicts. Our "ally" israel has fought at our side in ZERO of them.

The people who support israel are people who believe in talking snakes.


Do the terms of our alliances with Israel require them to act on our behalf during times of war?

Secondly Israel has in fact provided support to the US in terms of intelligence.
edit on 24-3-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 02:04 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: msallo
SInce israel was reestablished, the US has been in at least 22 warring conflicts. Our "ally" israel has fought at our side in ZERO of them.

The people who support israel are people who believe in talking snakes.


Do the terms of our alliances with Israel require them to act on our behalf during times of war?

Secondly Israel has in fact provided support to the US in terms of intelligence.


Do i give a f about terms of an aipec israel alliance? Allies give blood or treasure when its needed, but in this alliance that blood and treasure only goes one way

good intel on that bomb benny
edit on 24-3-2015 by msallo because: (no reason given)
edit on 24-3-2015 by msallo because: (no reason given)
extra DIV



posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 02:05 PM
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a reply to: msallo

You are the one who claimed Israel, as an ally of the US, never got involved in our conflicts.

So I ask the question again - does the terms of our alliance with Israel require them to support us militarily?

If you aren't going to answer the question and take it seriously then maybe you should not make claims you cant support.



posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 02:06 PM
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Sounds like Netanyahu has a mole or two or twelve working inside the Obama administration.

Or the senate.

Or one of the other foreign countries involved in the negotations.

Or all of the above.




posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 02:08 PM
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a reply to: CranialSponge

There are 5 other nations involved and then there is Iran.

The US was not the only nation Israel obtained information from.



posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 02:09 PM
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pretty much every one spies and has spied for many many centuries on this floating blue marble ,the trick is your not supposed to get caught
www.newser.com...

Israel spied on confidential talks last year between Iran and the US on Tehran's nuclear program, then used the information gathered to campaign against a deal, White House officials say. The ruse was discovered when US intel agencies spying on Israel intercepted messages with details on the closed-door talks. It is believed Israel also learned of confidential US briefings and informants in Europe, the Wall Street Journal reports. But what really angered US officials, they say, was that Israeli Ambassador Ron Dermer shared details of the talks with US lawmakers to warn against a deal shortly before an interim agreement was signed in November 2013 and continued to do so leading up to Benjamin Netanyahu's visit to Congress. "It is one thing for the US and Israel to spy on each other. It is another thing for Israel to steal US secrets and play them back to US legislators to undermine US diplomacy," a senior official tells the Journal.
hrrm so how did we catch them spying on us? by spying on them of course! dont see much coming out of this ,they spy on us we spy on them every one spies on every one .
fortune.com...

Cyberspace is one big snoop-fest where even allies tend to tolerate one another’s espionage. Israel, a routine geopolitical ally of the United States, has been caught spying on the U.S.’s nuclear negotiations with Iran, reports the Wall Street Journal. The state’s surveillance came to the attention of the White House after the U.S., somewhat ironically, intercepted Israeli communications containing confidential information that could have only come, officials believe, from access to its private talks, government officials told the paper. So goes the one-upmanship of the intelligence world.


seems the state department is more pissed the Isrelis showed it to congress and tried to fiddle with the deal so lets at least be honest in this no one cares that people were spying as that again is standard,what they do care about is this:


What perturbed the White House most, reports the Journal, was not so much Israel’s eavesdropping—that’s to be expected between nation states these days, I guess—but it was the way Israel used the information to influence Congress.
so more mad about trying to back door a sitting president during diplomatic talks



posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 02:09 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: CranialSponge

There are 5 other nations involved and then there is Iran.

The US was not the only nation Israel obtained information from.



Yes, I know.

Like I said... "or all of the above".



posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 02:10 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: msallo

You are the one who claimed Israel, as an ally of the US, never got involved in our conflicts.

So I ask the question again - does the terms of our alliance with Israel require them to support us militarily?

If you aren't going to answer the question and take it seriously then maybe you should not make claims you cant support.



I claimed israel our fake "ally" has never fought at our side in the 22+ plus conflicts weve been involved in since reestablishment. That claim is also a fact.

Israel has never fought alongside the USA. Fact
edit on 24-3-2015 by msallo because: (no reason given)




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